Your video, Brotherly love is irreplaceable., has made it into the Top 15 New Videos listing. Congratulations on your achievement. For your contribution you have been awarded 1 Power Point.

Lol. My brother loved cloud gaming…so much he was really pissed he had to buy a disc version ps5 (or keep waiting) ….until some of the games and movies he “bought” disappeared that is. Now he hates cloud gaming, calls it a total rip off scheme, and says I was right all along to want a physical copy of my purchases.

He runs a server farm in Austin, so his internet connection was never an issue.

Place de la Concorde Suisse...John McPhee's book exploring Swiss...paranoia...
---All military age men have an automatic weapon at home; the penalties for using it or even open the ammunition other than military duty are severe
---The bridges and tunnels in to the country are rigged with places for Swiss Army Engineers to stick explosives and drop them all
---Airbases tucked into mountain sides; not nuke proof; but damn hard to get at any other way
etc
etc
etc

"in Italy for 30 years under the Borgias they had warfare, terror, murder, and bloodshed, but they produced Michelangelo, Leonardo da Vinci, and the Renaissance. In Switzerland they had brotherly love - they had 500 years of democracy and peace, and what did that produce? The cuckoo clock. "

Harry Lime; Orson Well's "The Third Man"...

Beat me by just over an hour.
*promote some brotherly love

Love The Marx Brothers...love Chico playing the piano. I remember as a kid whenever we came across a Marx Brothers movie while changing channels I always hoped that we hadn't missed the piano playing scene.

@alcom

I hear you shinyblurry, but I feel that your argument meanders back to the original appeal to authority that most believers resort to when justifying their positions. I also find that the related video links provided by TheGenk provide a valid refutation of the idea that God is The One who put values of good and evil inside each of us.

There is always an appeal to authority, either to God or to men. There are either objective moral values which are imposed by God, or morality is relative and determined by men. If morality is relative then there is no good or evil, and what is considered good today may be evil tomorrow. If it isn't absolutely wrong to murder indiscriminately, for instance, then if enough people agreed that it was right, it would be. Yet, this does not cohere with reality because we all know that murdering indiscriminately is absolutely wrong. The true test of a worldview is its coherence to reality and atheism is incoherent with our experience, whereas Christian theism describes it perfectly.

If you feel the videos provide a valid refutation, could you articulate the argument that they are using so we can discuss them here?

In my mind, Zacharias' incoherence with the atheist's ability to love and live morally is influenced by his own understanding of the source of moral truth. Because he defines the origin of pure love as Jesus' sacrifice on behalf of mankind, it is unfathomable to him that love could be found as a result of human survival/selection based of traits of cooperation, peace and mutual benefits of our social structure. His logic is therefore coloured and his mind is closed to certain ideas and possibilities.

The idea of agape love is a Christian idea, and agape love is unconditional love. You do not get agape love out of natural selection because it is sacrificial and sacrificing your well being or your life has a very negative impact on your chance to survive and pass on your genes. However, Christ provided the perfect example of agape love by sacrificing His life not only for His friends and family, but for people who hate and despise Him. In the natural sense, since Jesus failed to pass on His genes His traits should be selected out of the gene pool. Christ demonstrated a higher love that transcends the worldly idea of love. Often when the world speaks of love, it is speaking of eros love, which is love based on physical attraction, or philial love, which is brotherly love. The world knows very little of agape love outside of Christ. Christ taught agape love as the universal duty of men towards God:

Luke 6:27 "But I say to you who hear, Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you,
Luke 6:28 bless those who curse you, pray for those who abuse you.
Luke 6:29 To one who strikes you on the cheek, offer the other also, and from one who takes away your cloak do not withhold your tunic either.
Luke 6:30 Give to everyone who begs from you, and from one who takes away your goods do not demand them back.
Luke 6:31 And as you wish that others would do to you, do so to them.
Luke 6:32 "If you love those who love you, what benefit is that to you? For even sinners love those who love them.
Luke 6:33 And if you do good to those who do good to you, what benefit is that to you? For even sinners do the same.
Luke 6:34 And if you lend to those from whom you expect to receive, what credit is that to you? Even sinners lend to sinners, to get back the same amount.
Luke 6:35 But love your enemies, and do good, and lend, expecting nothing in return, and your reward will be great, and you will be sons of the Most High, for he is kind to the ungrateful and the evil.
Luke 6:36 Be merciful, even as your Father is merciful.

Indeed, moral foundations can and must change with the times. As our understanding of empathy, personal freedoms and the greater good of mankind develops with our societal and cultural evolution, so too must our standards of morality. This is most evident when concepts such as slavery and revenge (an eye for an eye) are seen as commonplace and acceptable throughout old scripture where modern society has evolved a greater understanding of the need for equality and basic human rights and policing and corrections as a measure of deterrence and rehabilitation for those individuals that stray from the path of greatest utility.

This is why slavery is no more, why racism is in decline and why eventually gay rights and green thought will be universal and our struggle to stifle the rights of gays and exploit the planet's resources to the point of our own self-extinction simply will be seen by future historians as sheer ignorance. Leviticus still pops up when people try to brand gays as deviant, even though most it is itself incoherent by today's standards. Remember that "defecating within the camp was unacceptable lest God step in it while walking in the evening." Well, today we just call that sewage management.

Some people, like Richard Dawkins, see infanticide as being the greatest utility. Some believe that to save the planet around 70 percent of the population must be exterminated. Green thought is to value the health of the planet above individual lives; to basically say that human lives are expendable to preserve the collective. This is why abortion is not questionable to many who hold these ideals; because human life isn't that valuable to them. I see many who have green thoughts contrast human beings to cattle or cockroaches. Utility is an insufficient moral standard because it is in the eye of the beholder.

In regards to the Levitical laws, those were given to the Jews and not the world, and for that time and place. God made a covenant with the Jewish people which they agreed to follow. The covenant God made with the world through Christ is different than the Mosaic law, and it makes those older laws irrelevant. If you would like to understand why God would give laws regarding slavery, or homosexuality, I can elucidate further.

In regards to your paraphrasing of Deuteronomy 23:13-14, this is really a classic example of how the scripture can be made to look like it is saying one thing, when it is actually saying something completely different. Did you read this scripture? It does not say that:

Deuteronomy 23:13 And you shall have a trowel with your tools, and when you sit down outside, you shall dig a hole with it and turn back and cover up your excrement.

Deuteronomy 23:14 Because the LORD your God walks in the midst of your camp, to deliver you and to give up your enemies before you, therefore your camp must be holy, so that he may not see anything indecent among you and turn away from you.

Gods home on Earth was in the tabernacle, and because God dwelled with His people, He exorted them to keep the camp holy out of reverence for Him.

The rules that God gave for cleanliness were 2500 years ahead of their time:

"In the Bible greater stress was placed upon prevention of disease than was given to the treatment of bodily ailments, and in this no race of people, before or since, has left us such a wealth of LAWS RELATIVE TO HYGIENE AND SANITATION as the Hebrews. These important laws, coming down through the ages, are still used to a marked degree in every country in the world sufficiently enlightened to observe them. One has but to read the book of Leviticus carefully and thoughtfully to conclude that the admonitions of Moses contained therein are, in fact, the groundwork of most of today's sanitary laws. As one closes the book, he must, regardless of his spiritual leanings, feel that the wisdom therein expressed regarding the rules to protect health are superior to any which then existed in the world and that to this day they have been little improved upon" (Magic, Myth and Medicine, Atkinson, p. 20). Dr. D. T. Atkinson

What's interesting about that is that Moses was trained in the knowledge of the Egyptians, the most advanced civilization in the world at that time. Yet you will not find even a shred of it in the bible. Their understanding of medicine at that time led to them doing things like rubbing feces into wounds; ie, it was completely primitive in comparison to the commands that God gave to Moses about cleanliness. Moses didn't know about germs but God did.

Paedophilia will never emerge as acceptable because it violates our basic understanding of human rights and the acceptable age of sexual consent. I know this is a common warning about the "slippery slope of a Godless definition of morality," but it's really a red herring. Do you honestly think society would someday deem that it carries a benefit to society? I just can't see it happening.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pederasty_in_Ancient_Greece

The Fed and the World Bank can only fuck the world because of the illusory stranglehold they have on the cattle-We believe their paper to be of value and that the system works. Hard to rally behind a rout of criminals in their palaces when food and fuel isn't available just like it's hard for a majority of citizens to mount a physical campaign on Washington for a protest.....logistics.

These measures to add incrementally, additional features, capacities, etc. to existing laws??? To avoid accusations of a totalitarian crackdown, you know the routine and those who would that the United States be gun-free zone have plenty of time and money and the fucking media in their pocket.

Get me started on the privilege of driving? I daily see morons who, if the required tests for a driving license sane, would be riding a fucking unicycle to work. This includes you dumb-asses who stay on your fucking cell the bulk of the time you spend in your vehicle. I live in a city with over 6 million people, 150 square miles in the county, and everyone owns a car. Fucking nightmare of imbeciles on the road DAILY, plenty of whom should not be allowed to carry a loaded, 2-3 ton killing machine.

What was it Al Pacino said in "Heat??"....You get killed walking your doggy!"

Real simple for me: Hire police and create soldiers out of unhinged fucks who have control and power issues and give THEM guns?? Until my saliva can be used to melt steel or some unifying event turns the world into an idyllic wonderland of brotherly love, Guns. Explosives. Pointy fucking sticks. To protect ourselves from defective assholes and should the need ever arise, we'll make our decision then.

The world becomes increasingly more chaotic and non-linear by the hour...embrace it. We live in one of the most incredible times in human history and the planet my children inherit will be unrecognizable very soon and all change is quite a good thing.

brotherly *love is a beautiful thing.

The city of brotherly love is so misogynistic.

I know my momma loves me
I know my poppa loves me
I know the camera loves me
I can tell my brother loves me
I know that Boston loves
And San Francisco loves me
I love the city back,
I just can't help it, it's so lovely

I'm in my lucky underwear, i'm feeling debonair
If it's a lonely trip to heaven, I'm already there
I'm in the bedroom i'm like stepping like I'm Fred Astaire
I make it happen, battlerapping at my Teddy Bear
When I was twelve I'd leave my door open a crack
afraid if getting busted sneaking porno on my mac
I guess I was a freak
Until I got caught last week
(who's been loving you?)
I was reading Booker T, I threw the book at me
I go for the lookers but they never look at me
I would get a hooker if I could unhook her bra
I'd be looking soft as soon as she took her top. off
let's go rolling in a broken winnebago
stop and smoke a bowl out of a hollowed out potato
It's hash now, but it's hash browns soon
(who's been loving you?)

I know that Jesus loves me
I know that buddha loves
The fucking easter Bunny
and the ghost of gandhi love me
I know that santa loves me
I think my Aunties love me
I know my Grandma loved me
she thought I was handsome trust me

this insanity, that's heredity
it's my family, we can let it be
wish I pretended that mom and dad are dead to me
But i love my dad, that motherfucker read to me
my first words were "where's the love?"
mad smug, assed up on a bearskin rug
fashodo, mom'll show you the photo
(who's been loving you?)
I do embarassing better
I could wear a pink sweater
with a pair of slick pleather pants
derelicte e-va-ry day and it's well known
that I hop off stage with my cell phone
fake a dropped call when everybody's near me
and shout "I love you mom!" so everybody hears me
I need to and true nothing new but
(who's been loving you?)

Even though I owe them money
I think it's pretty likely
that my whole family loves me
My lovers tend to like me
I know my homies love me
My teachers loved to hate me
The haters love to fuck with me
the fickle love me lately

I'm a percussionist. I never knew guitar
it's cheesy, but I'm stunting like a superstar
it's easy man I'm hopping out a moving car
call me weezy cause I'm coughing at the hookah bar
I don't do cigars, but I got hella game
I can make a lady out of styling gel and cellophane
so you can yell my name, I make the bed frame move
(who's been loving you?)
me and my better friends are heading to the town strip
if they don't let us in we'll never take roundtrip
because I took an hour picking out my outfit
and then I took another slicking down a cowlick
and I like house sitting, but fuck it now's different
I'm going out and there ain't a bouncer for cowtipping
So I'ma tear this joint up
And i'ma party till the hoofs point up
(who's been loving you?)

this is for Charles Barkley
This is for Poison Ivy
This it's for Draco Malfoy
And it's for Bill O'Reilly
This is for Ned Mencia
It's for the corporate lawyers
it's for the backseat drivers
And for my friend Ann Coulter

>> ^NordlichReiter:
Comment from digg

Republicans accepted the following amounts in 2010 from:
Insurance: $1,319,521
Health Professionals: $2,982,581
And Democrats:
Insurance: $1,405,291
Health Professionals: $3,078,997
http://www.opensecrets.org/parties/indus.php?cycle ...
http://www.opensecrets.org/parties/indus.php?cycle ...
Why would you look at that, looks like Democrats accepted more money than Republicans from the insurance and health industries..
TSK05TSK05
19 hr 49 min ago

Excerpt of Bryan's never-delivered closing argument...

Outmaneuvered by Clarence Darrow, William Jennings Bryan never got to deliver his closing argument in the Scopes trial. But soon after the trial -- and Bryan's subsequent death -- the entire text of Bryan's 15,000-word argument was published as Bryan's last speech. Here are a few excerpts:

Science is a magnificent force, but it is not a teacher of morals. It can perfect machinery, but it adds no moral restraints to protect society from the misuse of the machine. It can also build gigantic intellectual ships, but it constructs no moral rudders for the control of storm tossed human vessel. It not only fails to supply the spiritual element needed but some of its unproven hypotheses rob the ship of its compass and thus endangers its cargo. In war, science has proven itself an evil genius; it has made war more terrible than it ever was before. Man used to be content to slaughter his fellowmen on a single plane -- the earth's surface. Science has taught him to go down into the water and shoot up from below and to go up into the clouds and shoot down from above, thus making the battlefield three times a bloody as it was before; but science does not teach brotherly love. Science has made war so hellish that civilization was about to commit suicide; and now we are told that newly discovered instruments of destruction will make the cruelties of the late war seem trivial in comparison with the cruelties of wars that may come in the future. If civilization is to be saved from the wreckage threatened by intelligence not consecrated by love, it must be saved by the moral code of the meek and lowly Nazarene....

It is for the jury to determine whether this attack upon the Christian religion shall be permitted in the public schools of Tennessee by teachers employed by the state and paid out of the public treasury. This case is no longer local, the defendant ceases to play an important part. The case has assumed the proportions of a battle-royal between unbelief that attempts to speak through so-called science and the defenders of the Christian faith, speaking through the legislators of Tennessee. It is again a choice between God and Baal; it is also a renewal of the issue in Pilate's court....

...Your answer will be heard throughout the world; it is eagerly awaited by a praying multitude. If the law is nullified, there will be rejoicing wherever God is repudiated, the savior scoffed at and the Bible ridiculed. Every unbeliever of every kind and degree will be happy. If, on the other hand, the law is upheld and the religion of the school children protected, millions of Christians will call you blessed and, with hearts full of gratitude to God, will sing again that grand old song of triumph: "Faith of our fathers, living still, In spite of dungeon, fire and sword; O how our hearts beat high with joy, Whene'er we hear that glorious word -- Faith of our fathers -- Holy faith; We will be true to thee till death!

Excerpts from Bryan, William Jennings. Bryan's Last Speech: Undelivered Speech to the Jury in the Scopes Trial. Oklahoma City: Sunlight Publishing Society, 1925.

^ I love you, deputydog. (Do not confuse brotherly love with something more! There will be no incestuous themes here... at least not tonight *wink wink*)

If I advised somebody to watch Lost, I'd tell them to only see the first 4 episodes. It's been going downhill ever since for me. Worst offense on the writers behalf was, when showrunner Lindelof explicitly stated on several occasions sometime while Season 2 was airing that "there will be no time-travel of any kind in the show, ever".

Fast-forward only 1 and a half damn year, and the whole show revolves around time-traveling. How's that for writing yourselves in a freaking corner, n00bs?

>> ^MaxWilder:
>> ^chilaxe:
MaxWilder, probably ~95% of the hundreds of thousands of Iraqis who were killed as a result of the US invasion were killed by fellow Muslims.

You're probably right on that count. My point is simply that if christians were truly a poeple who cherished peace and brotherly love as commanded by Jesus, then we would resist going to war as long as humanly possible. But instead we jump at the chance to invade foreign lands based on evidence we don't even consider checking twice.
Why is it that I, an atheist, am the one marching in peace protests, while the christian leaders back the christian president and send us into a bloody occupation? Because christians are in truth no better than the other religious extremists who use any excuse to commit murder.


I don't know about you, but I didn't vote for Bush. And even if I had, there isn't much I can do to change the decisions he made. Regardless of whether or not Bush is a christian, he is still human, he is still prone to error. He is however, the president of the country, and therefore garners respect based on his position. I didn't vote for Obama, and I don't agree with everything he stands for, but he is going to be my president, and I will support him.


The Iraq war may or may not have been justified, depending on your definition of justice. We did successfully capture a horrible dictator, and we did recover yellowcake. War is never perfect, or pretty, but sometimes it's necessary.

I'm of the opinion that war shouldn't continue any longer than needed, and I think it would be excellent if we could remove ourselves from Iraq as soon as possible.

>> ^chilaxe:
MaxWilder, probably ~95% of the hundreds of thousands of Iraqis who were killed as a result of the US invasion were killed by fellow Muslims.


You're probably right on that count. My point is simply that if christians were truly a poeple who cherished peace and brotherly love as commanded by Jesus, then we would resist going to war as long as humanly possible. But instead we jump at the chance to invade foreign lands based on evidence we don't even consider checking twice.

Why is it that I, an atheist, am the one marching in peace protests, while the christian leaders back the christian president and send us into a bloody occupation? Because christians are in truth no better than the other religious extremists who use any excuse to commit murder.