I was oversimplifying. I don't know enough about the theoretical physics of black holes to know in what ways they are infinite. However, the only way I can think of to extract energy from the black hole is if you could put a wormhole at the center that led back to its lip, tapping the energy from falling matter through the resulting Escher's Waterfall.

I should point out we actually do use the weak force for energy production, that is what is going on in the curiosity rover, radioactive decay of Pu238...but it is one of the lowest power conversion ratios that you can do for electricity production (thermocouple). They are just really simple with no moving parts, but it ain't going to solve no energy crisis! We actually have infinite gravity wells via black holes, @maestro156, but you still can't generate perpetual motion from it. I would like to hear your idea on how you could, though.

>> ^Kalle:

One serious question that bothers me is.. why isnt it possible to use gravity as an energy source?
Would such a machine be a perpetual motion machine?

There is a bottom to a gravity well (apart from Black Holes? I don't know ). Say you drop an object and harvest some of its kinetic energy as it falls...what do you do once it reaches the bottom of the well? You must exert energy to pull it back out of the well, and that energy is greater than what you gained from dropping it. In a sense a pendulum makes this transaction with every swing. It does it very efficiently, only losing a fraction of its energy with each exchange but none the less it does lose energy. In a sense we never truly generate energy, we simply move it around. We break chemical bonds and withdraw a portion of the energy that was needed to make those bonds. Whenever we put an object with any mass on a high shelf we use some our energy and give it potential energy. Should it fall from the shelf this potential is converted to kinetic. The most plentiful supply of locked away energy? Probably mass. The speed of light squared is a big number, as GeesussFreek says, the future is probably fusion. If we can convert just a tiny fraction of this planets mass to energy cheaply and safely then our energy problems are more or less solved.

Anyway, I hope that somewhat answered your question. Its one of those questions that on the face of it seems simply to answer but once I tried I realised it wasn't so easy

To me this object looks like an extremely efficient pendulum. I actually love its design. The fact the ball "orbits" is actually very apt. I don't think its perpetual motion, but if it really had been going at near constant speed for that long then it is still a very impressive piece of engineering. He should patent and start making more. I'd bet people would pay a pretty sum for a scaled down version sitting on their desk. I would. Even better, put a lightbulb in the centre, surround it with 8 concentric rings for each planet and tweak the weights/magnets so the balls orbit at approximately the right speed...that would be fucking sweet.

You know, with the spaceman going into the black hole, his feet would start to become more red and disappear, then slowly creep up his body, becoming more red then disappearing as it goes up, he's gotta go over the event horizon bit by bit.

>> ^direpickle:

>> ^Payback:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperion_Cantos
The "Big Mistake of '08" would be a black hole that dropped into the earth.

In no way are the Hyperion novels "shit scifi!" I will fight people!


I didn't notice that criteria until after I answered. I retract Mr. Simmons' work.

In reply to this comment by shveddy:
Obviously I'm joking, but brownie points if anyone can tell me which shit scifi novel I read in high school put the idea of internally orbiting black holes destroying the earth in my mind.

I remember that being a plot complication in James Hogan's Thrice Upon A Time.

>> ^Payback:

>> ^shveddy:
See! See! I knew it! They're making mini black holes that are going to end up in long parabolic orbits through the earth, gobbling up a bit more of the earths mass with each passing until there is nothing left but a hollow shell. Aah, stop playing God!
Obviously I'm joking, but brownie points if anyone can tell me which shit scifi novel I read in high school put the idea of internally orbiting black holes destroying the earth in my mind. I can vividly recall it being a very important plot point to some book I've read, I just can't remember where I got it from.
Love these PHD comics, keep posting.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperion_Cantos
The "Big Mistake of '08" would be a black hole that dropped into the earth.


In no way are the Hyperion novels "shit scifi!" I will fight people!

>> ^shveddy:

See! See! I knew it! They're making mini black holes that are going to end up in long parabolic orbits through the earth, gobbling up a bit more of the earths mass with each passing until there is nothing left but a hollow shell. Aah, stop playing God!
Obviously I'm joking, but brownie points if anyone can tell me which shit scifi novel I read in high school put the idea of internally orbiting black holes destroying the earth in my mind. I can vividly recall it being a very important plot point to some book I've read, I just can't remember where I got it from.
Love these PHD comics, keep posting.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperion_Cantos

The "Big Mistake of '08" would be a black hole that dropped into the earth.

See! See! I knew it! They're making mini black holes that are going to end up in long parabolic orbits through the earth, gobbling up a bit more of the earths mass with each passing until there is nothing left but a hollow shell. Aah, stop playing God!

Obviously I'm joking, but brownie points if anyone can tell me which shit scifi novel I read in high school put the idea of internally orbiting black holes destroying the earth in my mind. I can vividly recall it being a very important plot point to some book I've read, I just can't remember where I got it from.

Love these PHD comics, keep posting.

If I saw that, I'd have been like "OMG, that spiral light thingy created a black hole! Hurry up woman closest to me, let's have sex before we get sucked in and die!"

Japan, Also known as the Weirdhole. It is where all the truly weird shit in the world is pulled to. And just like the garbled information a black hole is said to leak. What weird does escape is so garbled we don't know what the hell it is.

Thank you
In reply to this comment by LarsaruS:
*promote this great video!

I'm a collector as well - right now I still have 5-600 (may be an over-exaggeration) star wars figs still in package and tons more out of package. Everyone who knows me always asks about value, what are they worth? I can't even put a price on them because I don't care - I like'em and I'm not selling. I collect because I like the stuff. Not so I can walk around and say, "my stuff is worth a lot, that's why I collect it".

I have comics & trading cards. I have the full complete set of the Dark Crystal trading cards - I don't care what they are worth - I like em! Star Wars, Marvel, Boris, Olivia, fantasy, baseball trading cards 1000s of them...


On that same note, stuff I have sold.
My full complete collections of Star Trek figures (plus DS9 figs) - gone
My full collection of X-men/X-force figures - gone
My full and complete set of Bat Man- animated series figs - gone
Full and complete set of vintage star wars figures (half still in packages)
My full and complete set of Tod McFarland Spawn/Wet Works/YoungBlood action figures (plus rare and limited release figs)
Robocop
TMNT
Robotec
Black Hole
Battlestar Galactica
Buck Rogers (from the TV series)
D&D lead figures
so much more...

I regret ever having to sell the stuff - there was a time with my first child when I had to choose between toys or formula & diapers. I made the right choice but I wish I had found a different way to come up with the cash. Especially now that I have two kids who would have loved to have that stuff.

I've replaced some of the vintage star wars stuff and I have tone of the new star wars figs from the past 15 years. I also have an almost complete set of Aliens vs. predator figs (minus the loader - I sold that off as well)

This is how we're all going to look once CERN opens up that black hole.

And to be doubly clear, there is no fundamental dichotomy between "chance" and "design". Chance needn't exist for a God or Godless universe, and "design" (as a vague concept, not specific theory) seems to exist either way too (though it could be illusory). I believe that I design things - so as an explanation for "how things are", most people are going to invoke design as a mechanism either way.

Of course there is a fundamental dichotomy between chance and design. Let's look at the definitions:

Chance

: something that happens unpredictably without discernible human intention or observable cause
b : the assumed impersonal purposeless determiner of unaccountable happenings : luck -an outcome decided by chance-

c : the fortuitous or incalculable element in existence

1
: to create, fashion, execute, or construct according to plan : devise, contrive
2
a : to conceive and plan out in the mind -he designed the perfect crime- b : to have as a purpose : intend -she designed to excel in her studies- c : to devise for a specific function or end -a book designed primarily as a college textbook-

A design was deliberately caused by a mind, whereas chance just happens. Either existence as we know it was deliberately caused by a mind, or it wasn't. Whether the Universe is deterministic and things had to happen this way has no bearing, because that says nothing for the reason of the original configuration, or how it got that way. Either there is no particular reason and it just happened to be that way, or it was set into motion by an intelligence. Design is planned and chance is unplanned, and that is the dichotomy.

If you want to speak about what is arbitrary, then you have to consider that everything is equally unlikely from the standpoint of one who is unsure about everything. You may suspect there is a truth, because things appear to happen for a reason, but be unable to grasp it. This is like a black hole for the mind, and there is no escape from uncertainty.

You have to make a couple of assumptions to even begin to reason. The first is that you are real. The second is that the Universe is not inherently deceptive. The first, because you cannot reason without assuming you exist, and so assuming the contrary will only lead to absurdity. The second, because again, if you cannot trust anything then you cannot trust your own thoughts either. Therefore, you have no route to reason and again it leads to absurdity.

This isn't to say you couldn't be deceived about the Universe. It is to say that there is always some route to the truth. Therefore, the truth is something tangible and can be grasped. However, you are still in the quandary of being a subjective being with limited knowledge. There may be a route to the truth, but it requires you to be omnipotent. This is where most people stop and say, well, we just can't ever know what the truth is, but this isn't true. Even if you are not omnipotent, an omnipotent being could tell you what the truth is. That's my claim.

God is also the simplest explanation for everything, which can account for absolutely everything we see, feel, or experience, and that is precisely why some people don't like it. They don't want an ultimate answer like God because He interferes with their personal autonomy. They want to be free to imagine that it could be any number of things, so therefore they have the ultimate freedom to live however they please. To say there is any particular answer, especially a personal one, restricts their personal freedom and makes them accountable to specific outcomes.

I'm not saying this universe is in any way likely or that it should compete with your current understanding of the world. So to clarify: my question to you is "do you agree it's not absolutely impossible that is the case". If you're leaving your answer to this clarified question as "no", what possible evidence could you have to rule this situation out? What evidence or experience couldn't be falsified by a devious supernatural agent? What if they could mess with your very process of reason (and I see no reason why they couldn't - again just as hypothetical)?

Well, you've agreed with me that God could reveal Himself to someone in such a way as they could be absolutely certain about it. Such a person could justifiably consider all other outcomes to be absolutely impossible, and be absolutely certain about that. That's my claim. Can I prove that I am that person, even to myself? Not entirely, but I have faith that it is true. This is not a blind faith, it is faith based on my personal relationship with God, which is experiential. Faith is the *substance* of things hoped for, because although I do not see God with my eyes, His Spirit dwells within me.

I do believe there is another supernatural power in this world, a kingdom of darkness which is a lesser power, but powerful enough to deceive human beings. Satan does want you to believe in God; the wrong God. Satan actually doesn't care what you believe, so long as it isn't in the Lord Jesus Christ. Another reason is that I have personal experience with demons; I have been around demon possessed people, and I have spoken to them when they manifested themselves in those people. They are professional liars (actors), the like you have not imagined.

It comes back to the Universe being inherently deceptive. You can't reason that way; you have to believe there is a route to truth. Neither can Satan completely deceive you; God gives everyone the opportunity to know the truth and to break free of their slavery to sin.


>> ^jmzero