none of which means a damn in the real world.

I refer you again to my earlier references to circular logic and how you fail to comprehend how it's a fallacy. Using a deity you can't prove exists as an authoritative source continues to get you nowhere. Your faith is not fact. If it was fact, then you wouldn't need faith. "god told me so" is not valid argument in grownup land

>> ^shinyblurry:

blah blah blah blah
>> ^petpeeved:
>> ^shinyblurry:
If polygamy were legal, would it be a civil rights issue if he refused to bake one for a polygamous wedding? How about a cake for someone wanted to marry their dog, or their car? He believes marriage is between a man and a woman and refuses to make a cake for any other kind of wedding. This has nothing to do with their sexual orientation, it has to do with his moral opposition to the corruption of the institution of marriage.
>> ^petpeeved:
>> ^shinyblurry:
Don't try that shit, it's discrimination, you know exactly why he was refusing to make a gay wedding cake that type of lying isn't going to help your argument. 2nd it's not a double-standard to hand someone their ass when they say something stupid. You do something counter to the way a society has been going you get shouted down in the public square. We're moving towards legalizing gay marriage and giving equal rights to all americans, you go counter to that you're gonna get yelled at.
Sorry but you're wrong, it isn't discrimination. They were still able to do business there if they wanted another kind of cake, and I'm sure they're still welcome to do so. The man doesn't want to make a gay wedding cake because he believes marriage is between a man and a woman, and that gay marriage is immoral.
Also filth posted on message boards? Is this your first day on the internet? I'm pretty sure Justin Beiber hasn't done anything to anyone on the internet and still he's talked about worse than Hitler. You're in hyperbole country mother fucker, deal with it.
Now you want to continue discriminating against people and not doing your job to make cakes or hand out birth control pills than yeah your life is gonna be made harder. Too bad because you're lives are already way too easy as it is. Complaining about christian discrimination, bitch there's children dying in Africa, shut the fuck up.
So discrimination against Christians is okay, because people talk trash all the time and children are dying in Africa? In other words, you just wave your hand and make excuses..proving that you don't really think discrimination is wrong, so long as its against people you disagree with. It's clear you want equal rights for everyone except Christians.
>> ^Yogi

So blacks weren't being discriminated against on the buses and water fountains, because, hey, they could still ride...just not in the front of the bus and hey, they could get a drink...just not at this particular water fountain.
Sounds like the sequel to separate but equal.

You know what is the main flaw in the argument of Christians who claim that they have the sole right to define what the institution of marriage represents and who is permitted to access it?
Simply this:
Christians don't own, didn't invent, and have no right to control marriage. They don't hold the patent on it. Not the idea of marriage, not the word of marriage, nothing. The concept of marriage belongs to the human race and predates Christianity by millenia and continents. Therefore, they have no special rights or privilege to impose their definition of it upon the rest of the nation.
But don't take my word for it. You have google at your finger tips.

for fuck's sake you are such an idiot. We're referring to treating homosexuals with equal rights, not a flippin cake.

it's obviously past your bedtime shiny.

>> ^shinyblurry:

You said that biblical morality is infringing on peoples rights. I replied that no one has a right to be baked a wedding cake. No rights were violated at all.
>> ^VoodooV:
Are you deliberately being thick? No one is questioning this.
>> ^shinyblurry:
No one has a right to be baked a wedding cake.
>> ^VoodooV

>> ^shinyblurry:

I love that this is your reasoning as to why they shouldn't send death threats, not that it's wrong, but that they may interpret it in a particular way you don't like.
>> ^TheJehosephat:
Gotta say it, if you are a supporter of gay rights, don't call in death threats to those who are against it. They are (likely) all religious and therefore will take it as "persecution" for their beliefs.



You really want to go down this road? Are you incapable of making any real arguments? fringe elements on both sides make death threats and they're universally reviled and not accepted.

Try again

You said that biblical morality is infringing on peoples rights. I replied that no one has a right to be baked a wedding cake. No rights were violated at all.

>> ^VoodooV:

Are you deliberately being thick? No one is questioning this.
>> ^shinyblurry:
No one has a right to be baked a wedding cake.
>> ^VoodooV

The parameters of marriage was determined by God at the beginning of His creation. We have turned away from God in these United States, and so we have turned away from the biblical standard, however, not as much as gay marriage proponents have stated. Even with the media saturation and the constant infiltration of gay special interest groups into the national discourse, we have these realities:

1. A gay marriage amendment has never passed at the ballot box. It has failed everywhere it has been tried, with the voters rejecting it 32 times since 1998.

2. Constitutional bans on gay marriage have been successful 100 percent of time at the ballot box, passing in 31 states, typically with wide margins. This includes liberal strongholds like California and Hawaii. 38 states ban it to some degree.

The people don't appear to want gay marriage, and they are strongly in favor of the biblical definition of marriage. If you don't want to accept the reality that God has defined marriage, then accept the reality that most people are not that hot for this, and they don't want to take the country in this direction.
>> ^petpeeved:

>> ^shinyblurry:
If polygamy were legal, would it be a civil rights issue if he refused to bake one for a polygamous wedding? How about a cake for someone wanted to marry their dog, or their car? He believes marriage is between a man and a woman and refuses to make a cake for any other kind of wedding. This has nothing to do with their sexual orientation, it has to do with his moral opposition to the corruption of the institution of marriage.
>> ^petpeeved:
>> ^shinyblurry:
Don't try that shit, it's discrimination, you know exactly why he was refusing to make a gay wedding cake that type of lying isn't going to help your argument. 2nd it's not a double-standard to hand someone their ass when they say something stupid. You do something counter to the way a society has been going you get shouted down in the public square. We're moving towards legalizing gay marriage and giving equal rights to all americans, you go counter to that you're gonna get yelled at.
Sorry but you're wrong, it isn't discrimination. They were still able to do business there if they wanted another kind of cake, and I'm sure they're still welcome to do so. The man doesn't want to make a gay wedding cake because he believes marriage is between a man and a woman, and that gay marriage is immoral.
Also filth posted on message boards? Is this your first day on the internet? I'm pretty sure Justin Beiber hasn't done anything to anyone on the internet and still he's talked about worse than Hitler. You're in hyperbole country mother fucker, deal with it.
Now you want to continue discriminating against people and not doing your job to make cakes or hand out birth control pills than yeah your life is gonna be made harder. Too bad because you're lives are already way too easy as it is. Complaining about christian discrimination, bitch there's children dying in Africa, shut the fuck up.
So discrimination against Christians is okay, because people talk trash all the time and children are dying in Africa? In other words, you just wave your hand and make excuses..proving that you don't really think discrimination is wrong, so long as its against people you disagree with. It's clear you want equal rights for everyone except Christians.
>> ^Yogi

So blacks weren't being discriminated against on the buses and water fountains, because, hey, they could still ride...just not in the front of the bus and hey, they could get a drink...just not at this particular water fountain.
Sounds like the sequel to separate but equal.


You know what is the main flaw in the argument of Christians who claim that they have the sole right to define what the institution of marriage represents and who is permitted to access it?
Simply this:
Christians don't own, didn't invent, and have no right to control marriage. They don't hold the patent on it. Not the idea of marriage, not the word of marriage, nothing. The concept of marriage belongs to the human race and predates Christianity by millenia and continents. Therefore, they have no special rights or privilege to impose their definition of it upon the rest of the nation.
But don't take my word for it. You have google at your finger tips.

I love that this is your reasoning as to why they shouldn't send death threats, not that it's wrong, but that they may interpret it in a particular way you don't like.

>> ^TheJehosephat:

Gotta say it, if you are a supporter of gay rights, don't call in death threats to those who are against it. They are (likely) all religious and therefore will take it as "persecution" for their beliefs.

Are you deliberately being thick? No one is questioning this.

>> ^shinyblurry:

No one has a right to be baked a wedding cake.
>> ^VoodooV

No one has a right to be baked a wedding cake.

>> ^VoodooV

>> ^shinyblurry:

The gay community in that town already knew about it, and sent someone in to get refused so they could create a story for the media with the hype and drama that has surrounded it, and generate sympathy for their cause.

Legitimately so. If he truly believes his bullshit he should be happy to advertise it. In the meantime, everyone else is now aware of his stance and can choose to support or ignore him.

I think you should have actually read about what happened before you commented.

This is what the owner said:

""If gays come in and want to order birthday cakes or any cakes for any occasion, graduations, or whatever, I have no prejudice against that whatsoever," Phillips told CBS. "It's just the wedding cake, not the people, not their lifestyle."

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/cake-bakery-blasted-refusal-gay-couple-wedding-cake-article-1.1125737#ixzz22M2FLkbs

So yes, my argument does have merit. They also came in an announced that they were gay and told him what the cake was for:

"My first comment was, 'We're getting married"

I'm sure the reason for this was that they already knew they were going to get turned down:

"This is not the first time Phillips has refused to bake a wedding cake for a gay couple. He insists, however, that his stance is not anti-gay."

The gay community in that town already knew about it, and sent someone in to get refused so they could create a story for the media with the hype and drama that has surrounded it, and generate sympathy for their cause.



>> ^JiggaJonson:

@UsesProzac You'll never get through to someone who honestly believes "it's not that he refused to make them a cake because they were gay, he refused to make a gay wedding cake," has any merit as an argument.
To really get somewhere in an argument with someone like this, you need to re-frame the problem into a more basic philosophical question after agree'd upon facts have been established.
Why do he refused service? <<< a rel="nofollow" good place to start apparently. @shinyblurry seems to think it's because of the event that the cake was being used for, so let's continue on that basis.
The next question would be: Does the baker have the right to demand to know what events his cakes are being used for? I mean, if I had some kind of cake-fetish should I be required to disclose it to the baker "Yes, I'm totally gonna stick this cake up my own ass."
^this seems like a more appropriate place for the two of you to continue your discussion in some constructive way.

In reply to this comment by VoodooV:
No one is discriminating against Christians, you wannabe martyr. We're just calling you out on your bullshit.

You: I disapprove of gay marriage
Everyone else with synapses: That's fine. Believe what you want, but the facts are that you're wrong and here's why and because of separation of church and state, you don't get to make any laws based on your nonsense unless you can back your shit up with more than just "gay sex is icky and they make me uncomfortable" And now you also alienated yourself from the rest of society because of the growing acceptance of LGBT.

Not all opinions are equal, dumbass, get over it. We put Christian beliefs to the test for a long time and they just don't pass muster anymore...deal with it. Adapt or die

If someone came in and started arguing that hitler was awesome, It's not discrimination if we tear into him for being a moron.

You being Christian has nothing to do with it. It's your shitty ideas that demonstrably infringe on other's rights that are under fire, not your freedom of religion.



Well said! I'd upvote that twice if I could.

>> ^shinyblurry:

Don't try that shit, it's discrimination, you know exactly why he was refusing to make a gay wedding cake that type of lying isn't going to help your argument. 2nd it's not a double-standard to hand someone their ass when they say something stupid. You do something counter to the way a society has been going you get shouted down in the public square. We're moving towards legalizing gay marriage and giving equal rights to all americans, you go counter to that you're gonna get yelled at.
Sorry but you're wrong, it isn't discrimination. They were still able to do business there if they wanted another kind of cake, and I'm sure they're still welcome to do so. The man doesn't want to make a gay wedding cake because he believes marriage is between a man and a woman, and that gay marriage is immoral.
Also filth posted on message boards? Is this your first day on the internet? I'm pretty sure Justin Beiber hasn't done anything to anyone on the internet and still he's talked about worse than Hitler. You're in hyperbole country mother fucker, deal with it.
Now you want to continue discriminating against people and not doing your job to make cakes or hand out birth control pills than yeah your life is gonna be made harder. Too bad because you're lives are already way too easy as it is. Complaining about christian discrimination, bitch there's children dying in Africa, shut the fuck up.
So discrimination against Christians is okay, because people talk trash all the time and children are dying in Africa? In other words, you just wave your hand and make excuses..proving that you don't really think discrimination is wrong, so long as its against people you disagree with. It's clear you want equal rights for everyone except Christians.
>> ^Yogi


No one is discriminating against Christians, you wannabe martyr. We're just calling you out on your bullshit.

You: I disapprove of gay marriage
Everyone else with synapses: That's fine. Believe what you want, but the facts are that you're wrong and here's why and because of separation of church and state, you don't get to make any laws based on your nonsense unless you can back your shit up with more than just "gay sex is icky and they make me uncomfortable" And now you also alienated yourself from the rest of society because of the growing acceptance of LGBT.

Not all opinions are equal, dumbass, get over it. We put Christian beliefs to the test for a long time and they just don't pass muster anymore...deal with it. Adapt or die

If someone came in and started arguing that hitler was awesome, It's not discrimination if we tear into him for being a moron.

You being Christian has nothing to do with it. It's your shitty ideas that demonstrably infringe on other's rights that are under fire, not your freedom of religion.

Cool, I can lock Bob up in a concentration camp just because his name is bob.

Who cares, right bob? It's just discrimination right? it's all for the lulz right? Discrimination puts hair on your chest mIrite?

It's my religious belief that all people named bob are evil so I'm protected from all criticism right?

As usual, Bob is clueless

>> ^bobknight33:

Who cares.
Every one gets discriminated for something at some point in time grow up and find another cake.
Get a life.
Its a mom and pop store he can deny service for any reason.

>> ^Morganth:

Then I guess I'm also bigoted and discriminate against pedophiles or the KKK for that matter. How dare I, right?

You fail to understand. Discrimination as a concept is not a bad thing. Discrimination against people for no good reason that is where the problem lies. To break it down:

Discrimination against nazis, pedophiles and twilight fans: Perfectly acceptable, those people did
something wrong.

Discrimination against people of other ethnicities, sexual orientation: bad!

>> ^Morganth:

And no, history will not judge me for my eff'd up morals, as you put it. History will judge me as someone who actually had morals that weren't swayed by popular culture, rather than changing beliefs with every whim of society.

Sadly for you, no. You aren't some brave moral crusader. You're a relic, clinging to an anachronistic belief that will be consigned to the same dustbin of history as those who thought women shouldn't vote. At best, you'll be tolerated and at worst, vilified.

>> ^hamsteralliance:

>> ^ChaosEngine:
>> ^shinyblurry:
How about a cake for someone wanted to marry their dog, or their car?
That is exactly the kind of retarded question I would have expected.
YOU WOULDN'T DOWNLOAD A GAY CAKE WITH YOUR CAR.


Yes I would...EVERYONE FUCKING WOULD THAT SOUNDS AWESOME!