So, for those who don't know, AFP was vehemently against U.S.A.'s bid for the 2012 Olympics, strong proponents for ending the ban on offshore oil drilling, against Health Care Reform and, as quoted in the press, "happy to take corporate money" (from Exxon/Mobil, and others).

David Koch, the founder of AFP, is the co-owner of an oil conglomerate and the 19th richest man in the world. He is the "sponsor of the Tea Party 'movement'."

>> ^fjules:

Any sane company would have done this. All those who shout at Viacom are just underage nerds/keyboard warriors. Admit it!


>> ^conan:

boohoo they took down your video. did they take away your lolly? no 100k hits? oooohhhh, you won't go to youtube heaven then. get a life.


I see the AstroTurf is out in full force....

Sigh - is the Sift STILL parroting HuffPo talking points about the Tea Party? The Tea Party is a huge group of citizens who are against debt spending, huge deficits, and expansion of social entitlements in a time of economic difficulty. Millions of citizens who are concerned about the self-destructive path of our domestic policy are no longer the 'silent' majority.

The left can't bring itself to admit that the Tea Party is a legitimate, sensible majority of the American people. This is in despite of polls that show the Tea Party is comprised of Republicans, Moderates, Independants, Blacks, Hispancis, and - yes - even Democrats who all happily inhabit the same tent. The fact that this group is so wide-spread and ecclectic is exactly why Obama is tanking in the polls, and why the Democrat congress is facing the prospect of being gutted like a sea-bass in November.

I've said it before - but you lefties and Democrats need to learn a lesson REAL fast. You're making the same mistake Bush2 made. He ignored the people who opposed his Iraq policy. The right tried to paint Iraq protesters as a bunch of astroturfed Democrats. It was true Democrats were actively supporting the rallies. It was true there were more than a few genuine lunatics in the anti-war movement. But ultimately the truth was that the protests reflected the true feelings of the majority. Bush ignored that, and paid for it.

Obama & the Democrats are currently doing the exact same thing by trying to marginalize the Tea Party. They're trying to paint a false picture that the Tea Party is a bunch of fringe racist kooks, and only astroturfed goons could possibly align with it. Bull. The Tea Party is supported by Republicans - true. The Tea Party does have a small number of kooks in it - true. But - like the Iraq protests - these things do NOT mean it isn't a legitimate, large-scale movement that reflects the will of the vast majority of Americans.

Truth. Ignore it at your peril, neo-libs.

If Google wanted to own your phone, they wouldn't be pushing so hard to open the phones and networks. They may be (okay, they are) fanatics on some subjects, but there is no evidence of the huge conspiracy that this video is trying to suggest.

The crappy reporting here definitely smells of astroturfed FUD.

Would that not then mean that ... Sarah Palin is Constitutionally prohibited from becoming ... President or Vice President of the United States of America?

Well - if you want to play the rhetorical game of strict denotative definitions - then "insurrection" would mean Barak Obama should be tossed out today. An insurrection is simply "resistance against civil authority or an established government", right? As a civil rights activist Obama as resisted the government. The entire Democrat resisted an established government during GWB. The Republicans are doing it right now under Obama. You know what? The more I think about it, the more I like this goofball textpert interpretation. It essentially means that NOBODY is allowed to run for political office. Throw them all out. Good riddance.

The teabagger movement ... was founded by old skool conservative republican, Dick Armey

It would be more accurate to say that Dick Armey supported the already existent Tea Party in the same way Democrats supported the anti-war movement. Under GWB, a grassroots movement got going that was opposed to the way the Iraq war was handled. This true representation of the national mood was aided and abetted by Democrats. Democrats "astroturfed" the bejeezus out of the anti-war movement. It was politically exigent, as well as a philosophical position they agreed with.

Republicans are trying to do the same thing with the Tea Party. The Tea Party is grassroots. It is filled with citizens who hate debt and deficits - who want balanced budgets & fiscal restraint at the federal level. It is Republicans, Independants, and even Democrats for whom sound fiscal policy is a critical issue. But Republicans for years flapped thier lips about fiscal conservatism (even though they don't practice it much). Of course the GOP is going to foster & foment a movement that they politically sympathize with.

The Tea Party movement is about fiscal conservatism. They want balanced budgets, reduced spending, and limited federal power. In that sense they agree with some libertarian principles, but aren't interested in the social policies that make the libertarian party such a collection of oddballs. Neither are they interested in the "Republican party" except as a vehicle to slam the brakes on Obama & Democrats. If the GOP thinks they can just use the Tea Party like a wet-wipe and then go on to be a bunch of fiscal idiots like Bush, then they will find the TP to be an unreliable ally.

>> ^dag:
People with your perspective generally haven't had the experience of another healthcare system to compare with. National Healthcare really, really works in other countries around the world and there's no reason why it can't work in the US- if we can just get past the astroturfing, fear-mongering and baseless propagandizing of the insurance companies and big Pharma. >> ^bobknight33:
>> ^rougy:
>> ^bobknight33:
Thank GOD he has done nothing this year. Health care IS working, It works just fine it only needs a little tweaking. This man is a well educated fool.

Yeah, it works just great except for the millions who can't afford it or who are refused coverage.
Not that you would give a shit.


People can afford it if they wanted to. Get a high detectable plan and stop buying games and large screen tv. Save you money and stop getting into dept. Sure there are a few million who just can't. let the local/ state help, but to nationalize the whole system is suck a fucked up solution that will make this issue worse. P.S. learn your constitution. There is no provision for health care in the constitution.



I do slightly agree to a point that heath-care in other countries work. I believe for small countries it is possible to weed out the corrupt officials is an efficient manner. In the USA the Federal Government has yet to run a decent program and when things F up at Democrats point the finger at the Republicans and the Republicans pointing it back the Democrats. We the American people are left with the mess and the ever increasing dept currently the rate of 4 Billion a day that WE the people will have to pay back. Sorry but my bank account can not carry my share of this dept. Can yours? This health care plan is a worse plan that is in place now.

Comment hidden because you are ignoring dag. (show it anyway)

People with your perspective generally haven't had the experience of another healthcare system to compare with. National Healthcare really, really works in other countries around the world and there's no reason why it can't work in the US- if we can just get past the astroturfing, fear-mongering and baseless propagandizing of the insurance companies and big Pharma. >> ^bobknight33:
>> ^rougy:
>> ^bobknight33:
Thank GOD he has done nothing this year. Health care IS working, It works just fine it only needs a little tweaking. This man is a well educated fool.

Yeah, it works just great except for the millions who can't afford it or who are refused coverage.
Not that you would give a shit.


People can afford it if they wanted to. Get a high detectable plan and stop buying games and large screen tv. Save you money and stop getting into dept. Sure there are a few million who just can't. let the local/ state help, but to nationalize the whole system is suck a fucked up solution that will make this issue worse. P.S. learn your constitution. There is no provision for health care in the constitution.

Comment hidden because you are ignoring dag. (show it anyway)

A shame that the Tea Baggers et al have been hoodwinked by the astroturfing insurance companies.
>> ^Bruti79:
>> ^Winstonfield_Pennypacker:
Health Care Reform is DEAD! This is a GREAT day for America because a radical, left-wing assault on freedom has been killed dead.

Did anyone else cringe at that. Granted the health care bill is terrible, but come on, Americans are getting dragged over the coals for health care, everyone has to be able to see that.

I fail to see how the wealth & background of the guy is an issue. This is a cause he believes in. Small government. Low taxes. Individual freedom. A society that doesn't stifle entreprenuers. When you beleive in a cause, you put up your money & time to fight for it. And - ideally - your cause is one that millions of Americans agree with and so you use your time & money to organize them into a powerful political force that can't be ignored.

This is no different than the Astroturf that organized & sponsored the Iraq War protests. No one seemed to care that the anti-war protests were bought & paid for, organized, and planned by ANSWER, Code Pink, and other big political donors. That's just how things work. I didn't whine about that when the Iraq protests were being ginned up by neolib groups, and I don't see why it is an issue with the teabaggers that Dick Armey is throwing his weight behind it. It's a cause he agrees with. Big deal.

>> ^Payback:
>> ^dystopianfuturetoday:
>> ^Stormsinger:
Well, -someone- is lying...but I'm not at all sure it's police doing it. I smell some reverse astroturfing...

Or maybe they're just trying to make it look like it's reverse astroturfing, when it's actually double reverse astroturfing. Didja ever think of that?

I think you're a bit out of whack there. It's obviously protesters trying to make us think its police pretending to be protesters that are awesomely disguised as police who are poorly disguised as protesters.



YOUR SO CLEARLY WRONG OMG ARE YOU AN IDIOT ??

its clearly police trying to be protesters that are disguised as police who are disguised as protectors trying to be police.

>> ^dystopianfuturetoday:
>> ^Stormsinger:
Well, -someone- is lying...but I'm not at all sure it's police doing it. I smell some reverse astroturfing...

Or maybe they're just trying to make it look like it's reverse astroturfing, when it's actually double reverse astroturfing. Didja ever think of that?


I think you're a bit out of whack there. It's obviously protesters trying to make us think its police pretending to be protesters that are awesomely disguised as police who are poorly disguised as protesters.

In reply to this comment by dystopianfuturetoday:
>> ^Stormsinger:
Well, -someone- is lying...but I'm not at all sure it's police doing it. I smell some reverse astroturfing...

--
Or maybe they're just trying to make it look like it's reverse astroturfing, when it's actually double reverse astroturfing. Didja ever think of that?

Justice... served.

>> ^Stormsinger:
Well, -someone- is lying...but I'm not at all sure it's police doing it. I smell some reverse astroturfing...


Or maybe they're just trying to make it look like it's reverse astroturfing, when it's actually double reverse astroturfing. Didja ever think of that?

Well, -someone- is lying...but I'm not at all sure it's police doing it. I smell some reverse astroturfing...

Agreed, although we'd probably disagree on exactly how to reduce the size of government.

Probably. After all, I'm a pro-military neocon, eh?

Disagree. They are definitely inflammatory but from what I've seen on the sift, they tend to focus on the nut-jobs and on how they are protesting. It's better for ratings.

I agree with you that they focus on the nutjobs - but I disagree with you about how they serve that up. People like MadCow and Olberman do NOT at any point go out of their way to say they are focusing only on the goofiest, most extremist fringe element. Quite the opposite. They do their damndest to make it look like the group is nothing BUT extremists. Same with Pelosi, Ried, and a lot of other Democrats who (frighteningly) are elected officials slandering the people.

It isn't hard when there is a large protest to go out and find the kook fringe. It existed in the Iraq war protests, and Republicans tried to portray it as normal. Now the neolibs are faced with large scale protests to their policies, and they are doing the same thing. Sadly, there are FAR too many people who are easily deceived by such unscruplulous methods. Here is a great example - a quote from dystopian...

but to be clear, Dick Armey's Neo-Con astroturf outfit FreedomWorks© is leading the charge against health care

Now - whether he meant it or not this is a backhanded attempt to make it sound like the protests are just right-wing nutjobs. Bull. The Iraq war protests were ginned up and sponsored by left-wing neolib nutjob extremists like Code Pink and such - but that does NOT mean that the people who attended them weren't legitimately concerned citizens who passionately believed in an issue. Groups could get tens of thousands to show up and protest because it was a REAL movement which reflected national sentiment. The fringe was there poking and prodding it along - but the essential core of the protest was legitimate.

EXACT same thing today. Some right wing groups may be doing some organizing, but the vast bulk of people who show up are NOT right wing kooks. They are people who are concerned about massive spending, big government intrusion into markets, inflation, debt, and general desire for a conservative fiscal approach. They are worried that Obama is doing way too much and has way too little to do it with, and they are there to shout "Stop!" For Pelosi, Reid, MadCow, Olberman, & the sifters to attempt to justify ignoring them just because a 'neocon' fringe element is along for the ride is insipid.

As long as you aren't calling for banning or silencing the other (admittedly there is some of that, which I don't agree with either), I see it as merely the right to show your disagreement.

On this I agree. I didn't like it when Republicans wanted to stifle Iraq war protests either, and I don't like it when Pelosi, Obama, Ried, MadCow & the rest want to silence the other side to grease the skids of thier agenda. And they DO want to silence the 'teabaggers', make no mistake.

(Although I still don't think it has the intended effect of countering the use of neocon.)

I don't see it so much as a 'counter' as it is a 'OK - right back at you'. If at some time the neolibs change and stop falsely labeling conservative thought then I'll adjust my method accordingly.