*amazon http://www.amazon.com/Sex-Annabel-Chong-Story/dp/B000077VR2

I wish that the other people on this website who agree with me would come in and comment instead of making private comments on my profile. That would be really nice.

Now that is a shame. If you are getting those then it is a shame that there are others on your side of the fence who don't have the conviction to stand out and say so.

That's a bit sad.

I have mentioned quite a lot on this site about my wonderings and such about porn, myself and my wife have discussed it quite a lot. We use it on occasion together, and find it to be great, although the actual number of films that are good to watch with a partner are severely limited.

There seems to be a seriously disturbing trend in degradation of women in porn these days which I do find disturbing. The prevalence of forcible deep throating, gagging, general treating women like objects is disgusting and absolutely wrong and gives men the wrong idea of how to treat a woman. And I for one wish it would just go away as a trend.

AND

I know that plenty of women who are in porn are not having a good time and are emotionally and physically screwed up. You only need to watch the movies The Girl Next Door (not the mainstream comedy, another one), or Sex, the Annabel Chong Story to see some people who have not been done well out of porn.

BUT

You can find terrible mainstream films, and actors and actresses who have been done very badly by in mainstream films too... does that mean I think they entire mainstream film business is evil and should be done away with? No.

And neither do I think that of the porn industry. There are some fantastic adult movies that are explicit and erotic and show respect to women and which can be wonderful to watch with a partner. There is no way in hell the entire genre should be gotten rid of, or considered evil just because there is bad in it.

You start getting on a really slippery slope if you do that anyway:
Video of people having sex - No
Photos of people having sex - No
Video of a woman naked - No.. oh, wait, there are plenty of wonderful 'mainstream' films with a naked woman or two in it, including ones I'm sure you like pinky... so... what criteria do you make for when it's art vs porn
Photos of a woman naked - No/Yes same deal

Video of a woman clothed but being erotic - ?
Video of a woman clothed by having sex with a man/woman - ?

I mean really, where are your lines drawn, and why are your lines right?

Personally, I think that if everyone is consenting and of age then almost anything goes... sometimes that line of 'consent' is nastily blurred thanks to desperate women and horrible men... but if two people are happy to be having sex, and happy to have people watching them have sex and can make a living from it... good on them.

I mean, there are actual couples who do films just with each other... so they are in a loving realationship, not cheating on each other, but just like having others watch, and you think that's wrong too?

In a nutshell:

Yes, porn CAN be horrible, degrading, addicting stuff
BUT
Porn can be wonderfully erotic entertainment for one or more parties
AND
Sex itself can be 'addictive', and I think I'd much rather have single guys get rid of their urges with a bit of porn rather than seeking out women to do so with, perhaps against their will.

Ahh! But he is a Maverick now! He rides from town to town, playing poker and righting injustice!

Who is the short bald stranger there?
Maverick is the name.
Riding the trail to who-knows-where
Palin is his companion
Gamblin' is his game.

Smooth as the handle on a gun.
Maverick is the name.
Wild as the wind in Oregon
Blowin' up a canyon
Easier to tame.

Riverboat ring your bell.
Fare-thee-well Annabelle.
Politic's the lady that he loves the best.
Arizona to Capital Hill.
Livin' on jacks and queens.
Maverick is a legend of the west.

I like threatening dream imagery. Like Shelley Duvall in the Shining when she runs from waves of blood.

I couldn't find a original reference for demonic dolls, but I did find this poem by Poe.

It was many and many a year ago,
In a kingdom by the sea,
That a maiden there lived whom you may know
By the name of Annabel Lee;
And this maiden she lived with no other thought
Than to love and be loved by me.

I was a child and she was a child,
In this kingdom by the sea:
But we loved with a love that was more than love -
I and my Annabel Lee;
With a love that the winged seraphs of heaven
Coveted her and me.

And this was the reason that, long ago,
In this kingdom by the sea,
A wind blew out of a cloud, chilling
My beautiful Annabel Lee;
So that her high-born kinsmen came
And bore her away from me,
To shut her up in a sepulchre
In this kingdom by the sea.

The angels, not half so happy in heaven,
Went envying her and me -
Yes! that was the reason (as all men know,
In this kingdom by the sea)
That the wind came out of the cloud one night,
Chilling and killing my Annabel Lee.

But our love it was stronger by far than the love
Of those who were older than we -
Of many far wiser than we -
And neither the angels in heaven above,
Nor the demons down under the sea,
Can ever dissever my soul from the soul
Of the beautiful Annabel Lee;

For the moon never beams without bringing me dreams
Of the beautiful Annabel Lee;
And the stars never rise but I feel the bright eyes
Of the beautiful Annabel Lee;
And so, all the night-tide, I lie down by the side
Of my darling -my darling -my life and my bride,
In the sepulchre there by the sea -
In her tomb by the sounding sea.

>> ^bigbikeman:
Spoco: True. You make valid points. and I too struggle with the whole porn thing. I love it. I hate it.
That being said, in a free society, one has to make room for this stuff. So Jenna hasn't gotten over her unhappiness? Well boo hoo, neither have I. So what? Where's my 15 mins with Bill O (so I could smash his self-righteous face against the wall and blame it on my parents while I lick his blood from my knuckles)? As for the porn industry being full of miserable bastards: take a look around any industry and you'll find sad desperation, in all it's insidious forms, anywhere you have the guts to acknowledge its existence.
The real problem in thinking here (imho) is in believing that what pornstars do is "Wrong", in the mortal sin kind of way. It's a trapping of the whole puritanical taboo against sex that runs so strong in N.A. society. Yes, people have sex with strangers for money. It's time we got over that already.
What they do is a choice, of their making, based on their life experience. And compared to other (comparatively morally ambiguous) choices, it isn't all that bad a way to make a living, really. Sure, you can rail against it and say that it's demeaning and demoralizing, but then you should rail against telemarketing to, not because it's annoying to you, but because it's psychologically damaging to the people who choose to do it.
But not many people take that stance....though by your argument it's equally valid.
Have sex with strangers; work at Walmart; call people you don't know in their homes and try to sell them something they've never heard of. Hmmmm.....tough call. I have a vague idea of what kind of whore I'd want to be, though.
To to be honest, I don't give a flying fuck if porn is empowering or not. That's not my problem. Or yours. It's Jenna's. If she says it is, then that's got to be good enough....assuming one gives her an ounce of respect.


Yeah, we shouldn't look down on people for having sex with others for money if that's what they chose, but the problem is that in so many cases they either do it and really, really hate it, and themselves, for doing it, purely because they need the money, or they're doing it while reaching out for something they're lacking in their relationships. Have a look at the movies "The Girl Next Door" or "Sex, the Annabel Chong story" for a couple of examples of the sorts of lives these women have... then you can also look up info on Asia Carerra, a porn star who has been admitted to Mensa, is very smart, and yet due to various bad things occurring during her younger years, ended up in porn also. What about Linda Lovelace from Deep Throat? Check out Louis Theroux's Documentary on Porn, that demonstrates how unhappy men can be in the roles also. (Yes, this is something that interests me quite a bit, because as I said, I would love to just be able to enjoy porn, but it's really hard when you are faced with the ugly behind the scenes truth... spoils the illusion) There are so, so, so many cases of these people not being happy at all, at all... try and find me one who's finished with the industry and still says 'Yeah, I loved it, it was a great job'. I think you'll have a hard time. OR even 'Yeah, I did that, it's behind me now, it didn't affect me at all, and I've moved on to better things' (like someone who had a job at Walmart might)

As much as you can say it's their choice, they have a right to do it if they want to etc. etc. and some woman say that they do like it, and they love it etc. I've yet to see a woman come out the other end and not be changed for the worse by this.

Oh, and Choggie mentioned the rise of brutal and degrading porn... yeah I've seen some of that on the web etc. and that is really wrong, the direction the industry has taken, seemingly towards more mistreatment of women is horrible. Give me a movie where the woman is pleasured and the man perhaps not even at all, and I'll find it more of a turn on, because at least that makes it more possible to believe everyone is having a good time.

I do find it a little lacking in, well, anything.

Yeah, horrible pun titles are nothing new in the porn industry.

That it makes a lot of money is nothing also.

That it can churn out gazillions of cheap movies compared to hollywood's ones? Erm... yeah... because for the most part people don't watch porn for the production values.

Yes it makes money, yes people are willing to pay money to have an enjoyable jerk off... I just don't get where this is trying to go.

If you want to watch something that can cause you to have second thoughts about porn watch 'Sex, the Annabel Chong Story' or 'The Girl Next Door, about Stacy Valentine'

This adds nothing to the debate.

We had an elephant here at the Alaska Zoo, Annabelle. She never had formal training of any kind, to my knowledge, but she still did some... interesting work. "Annabelle, an even-tempered elephant, was a popular attraction at the zoo, particularly known for the Abstract Expressionist paintings she made with a brush held in her trunk, which resembled the work of Willem de Kooning in his decline."

And I don't know about anyone else, but that elephant can paint a better elephant than I can. I'm impressed, even if she is being shown what brush strokes to make.