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Biden and the June job reports

newtboy says...

Noooo….you still don’t like Biden. You still think self serving narcissistic Trump was a leader, but a lifelong frugal public servant isn’t. Nooooo! (I know there’s no breaking through your fantasy, bob. You are a lost cause, totally divorced from reality and totally uninterested in honesty).

No bob, I mean the Union…as in the United States of America. As in the Union vs the Confederacy. Trump nearly dissolved the Union, so much that Republican platforms now include secession as their goal. Derp. Another “L” for your column. Another dunce cap for your collection.
Republicans want to erase America out of infantile spite, but have no idea what to do afterwards. Better learn Chinese or Russian, red states can’t afford to defend themselves, you are all welfare queen states with the highest murder and crime rates.

Side note: But, this means you are anti union, so 100% anti worker? Really? What favors has Biden handed unions? Most unions (all you oppose) lobby for workers, blue collar employees. You would limit lobbiests to to those lobbying for billionaires and huge corporations (including religious corporations) that actively lobby against workers rights, pay, safety, ecological responsibility, hours, etc. Think about that.

You fucking moron, it went from 3.08% (higher than Trump ever reached) in 2015 under Obama to -3.5% in 2020 (the lowest ever in history). Who the fuck told you .2%? Who told you Trump left it at 2.5%? Overall Obama’s growth rate was actually 50% higher than Trump’s, and Obama inherited a deep recession, Trump inherited a boom. They outright lied to you, and you just lapped it up without ever looking. They’re feeding you poo pie bob, not chocolate. I really wish I didn’t have to spend so much time correcting your obviously fabricated statistics, especially since you only spout them to force a correction, getting you attention, not because you believe or even understand them. So you understand, printing 50% more money while your economy is in the worst contraction ever causes inflation, and that’s what Trump did in 2020 while focusing on the election he lost in a landslide and ignoring the pandemic and economy.

Jobs?!? Obama job growth was near 8% adding 12.5 million jobs, Trump was the only president ever to lose jobs, losing 3.2 million. Another 100% break from reality, buddy. I’m telling you, you need professional help.

Yes, Trump did turn us around, from a massive recovery and booming economy to massive economic losses, job losses, absolutely insane deficits and trying to double the debt, huge money printing in 2020 (magic wand waiving) that creates massive inflation (that he now blames Biden for), undreamed of losses of life, and teetering on the brink of depression and pandemic. He made us madder. For libs that means angry, for cons that means totally bat shit crazy with no ties to reality at all.

Far from it, lots of positive, but so much negative left from the previous one we are still in the red.

They have made policies that help the American pocketbook, Trump robbed it blind to hand to billionaires (and fake billionaires).

Who told you that lie. The Democrats have done everything they legally can to force oil companies to increase production and stop price gouging, Republicans all voted against doing anything, then claim “Biden’s fault”. No fossil fuel production has been cut. You’ve been lied to, and you aren’t intellectually honest enough to investigate for yourself…you don’t want to hear the truth.

Republicans are to blame for high fuel prices, Democrats are responsible for the recent lowering. Democrats are making efforts to lower them further, Republicans are 100% opposed to any actions.

Trump benefited on fuel costs thanks to the economic collapse he caused by denying and ignoring Covid for months, dropping the demand for fuel to nothing…not a good policy overall, or do you suggest killing another million and shutting down another year to lower gas prices?


Lol. You are claiming reports say the average American spends $500 more on fuel and goods per month than under Trump? What reports? Glen Beck, AON, or Rush Limbaugh’s ghost? Only if you are a trucker using hundreds of gallons of gas a month. Even in California, fuel cost has gone up less than 1/5 of what you say.

Trump cost you SO much more than $6k per year, over $60k per taxpayer on the official debt alone…and these extra expenses (probably $100-$200 per month tops) are thanks to Trump printing 1/3 of every dollar in circulation (inflation) and fuel supply and demand being out of hand intentionally because oil companies make more money by producing less, and aren’t nationalized so the government can’t force them to stop gouging.

Such nonsense bob. Your facts are all wrong, and since you won’t investigate you are just going to continue to believe the lies you were fed. The people you listen to are making money off your beliefs, bob, and they see you as a huge sucker they can convince of anything and get your money or support for their America destroying “get me richer quick” schemes.

🤦‍♂️

Summary, since I don’t think you can read that much.
Union = United States Union, not unions
Gdp- Obama 1.59% rising consistently during his presidency Trump 1% falling precipitously to the worst ever in history. Also never beat Obama’s high.
Jobs- Obama added 12.5 million, Trump lost 3.2 million
Debt- Obama added $9 trillion, ending a recession and creating a boom over 8 years. Trump added $8 trillion on the books (and trillions more off the books) in 4 years ending a boom and creating a recession
Deficit- 2020 was the biggest budget deficit ever by >200% at $3.13 trillion and added well over $4.2 trillion to the debt that year, way more than 2021 at a still horrific $2.7 budget deficit but ending adding only $1.5 to the debt.

https://www.thebalance.com/us-deficit-by-year-3306306

Oil/gas price - all cost cutting measures opposed by Cons.

bobknight33 said:

I applaud the jobs #

But when you say *quality leadership, -- You are Sadly mistaken .

Putting Union back together -- you mean political payback for all the $ spent buying Biden / Democrats that Biden is now paying back the unions in favors?

So you are saying that You are in favor of big business buying our politicians and getting special breaks using American tax dollars.

What Trump damage. Went from a 0.2% GDP growth /yr to 2.5 + Growth. Obama touted that this0.2% was the new norm and Trump claimed BS. Trump said he wold crate jobs and Obama dumbly said how by waving a magic wand.


Trump, for all his BS turned America around and mad all of us better.

A strong work force is the only positive news of this Admin.

Biden and Democrat policies can make policies that help the American pocketbook but wont.


This biggest is the party stance on oil. Americans are getting poorer mostly from this fact alone. The party decided to cut out fossil fuels and go green. This decision is costing families hundreds of dollars extra, that they don't have every month.

Not just from the extra at the pump but also the extra cost to deliver goods and services .



Current media reports that this extra cost is running about 500$/month 6K$/year.

This is you man Joe, and his party's policies?

I just assume to keep Trump , mean tweets and all, and keep the $6 grand / year in my pocket.

California is Running Out of Water

newtboy says...

What do they mean “running out”? We’ve been out of water for decades.

As bad as this sounds, I think he’s under selling the problem big time.

Federal officials announced in February that California farmers will get no federal water this year, zero (that’s the Central Valley Project), while the state has allocated agriculture only 15% of normal from its distribution systems.
Meanwhile the state has also demanded agricultural water districts and cities stop diverting water from rivers and streams along the San Joaquin River. This includes 200 cities in and around the Bay Area, like San Francisco which gets up to 85% of its water from those rivers and streams.
Some rivers and streams in California have stopped flowing, all have reduced flow. The Mad River, just blocks from me, is usually 6-8’ deep bank to bank (75-100’) for at least 6 months out of each year, the last 3 years it never reached its banks and remained a shallow stream all winter, becoming a creek in summer. It is abnormal, most rivers are worse off.
Aquifers have already been depleted so much that the entire Central Valley is sinking rapidly. Reservoirs are WELL below 50%, despite what this clip said (Shasta is reporting at 40% today, but driving over it it looks like maybe 10-20% full with no inflow).
So far this year along, over 1000 residential wells have gone dry. This includes many entire communities losing their drinking water supplies completely. The number of agriculture wells that can no longer function is uncountable. It’s estimated we will lose 2700 drinking water wells this year state wide.

The California water problem isn’t a pressing future issue, it’s an ongoing unmitigated disaster we’ve ignored for far too long. At this point, it’s likely insurmountable, and a collapse of California agriculture will make today’s inflation seem like the good old days when average workers could afford to eat. Start a garden, it’s going to get weird.

Rent: Last Week Tonight with John Oliver (HBO)

newtboy says...

1)Exactly what in your post was satire? This?….” Dad taught me well and will deal with them according.”? (Now THAT’S satire)
2)Directly on topic…you implied we think your dad must be racist because he’s Republican. I explained. Also, nice you don’t disagree with my explanation, you just incorrectly claim it’s off topic.
3) see #2
4) ? Only a moral and ethical obligation, or to Republicans, no obligation whatsoever. 🤦‍♂️
5) better get it in writing, yes. Even if your siblings agree, their children might not. You could be setting up a future lawsuit or the dissolution of your family. If everyone agrees, in writing, then good on you…..but as I mentioned, it’s not a real offer to sell because it sounds like the couple couldn’t afford any price. A real offer would be to let them rent to own at maybe a slight rent increase….they might be able to take advantage of that offer.

Edit: 6) If they have no new income, and barely bring in enough to pay the discounted rent, how do you expect them to come up with an extra $5k, +$3500 (and rising) per year, + $100+ per month more…especially with the Republican plan to make the poor pay more taxes, and end social security and Medicare/Medicaid …how will they ever convince a bank they can keep up payments? And they wouldn’t get 6%….wtf man? Do they have perfect credit? That’s prime, they don’t qualify for a fixed loan at prime rates if they need discounted rent….and no bank is going to give 80 year olds a 30 year loan. The highest prime rates were 21%, unlikely in the near future, but rates are skyrocketing. Now, if you carried the loan yourself, you COULD offer those rates, but a bank never would.
If their kids have cash and are willing to gift it to their parents regularly, and if your family carried the discount loan, it could work.

Sure, sounds simple, but reality isn’t that simple, especially if you don’t have a net worth more than the loan. Year one they would need a minimum of $10k extra to do this if your loan numbers were right, and they aren’t from a bank. Year 2-30 they would need $5k more than they spend now….+ all repairs, tax hikes, interest rate hikes, etc. a great deal to be sure, but not feasible for poor elderly people who will likely lose all their income if Republicans regain power. It more than doubles their housing costs year one.

bobknight33 said:

1 no joke just some satire
2 off topic
3 off topic
4 Good deal and a kind landlord. That being said the landlord is under no obligation to rent to anyone under current market value.

5 Siblings all agree to let it go to the renters and the 50 to 60% discount . All I need is a email/ letter stating their agreement.


6 I think they might be able to do this at 5% down ( or zero). The bank will see a 50K equity in the new owners the moment they sign the papers.

For 30 years / fixed / 3500 property tax/year
At 120K @6% about 1200/month
At 60K @6% about 800/month
At 50K @6% about 730/month

Current rent 695/month
IF they / their kids can put down 10% ( 5K) payments drop about 100bucks

This is simple. Buy the house for 1/2 off and put 50K in you pocket at the closing.

Rent: Last Week Tonight with John Oliver (HBO)

newtboy says...

1) what part of that is a joke?
2) not all Cons are racists, but almost all racists are Cons.
3) All cons may not be blatant racists, but they all are willing to stand with blatant lifelong racists and support them and are willing and eager to support blatantly racist policies if the racists will support their candidates. You know a man by the company he keeps.
4) I rented 1/3 of an acre with utilities in California for $250 for 7+ years, when estimated rent would be up to $1500+Utilities, in order to give a needy person a home. After 7 years I raised rent to $300, 1/5 market value. Keep in mind my wife and I have lived on $30k a year +- for decades so she can work at a non profit blood bank helping the community. We could have used the money. Kindness isn’t monopolized by any one side/group, but it’s more rare from cons., as this video demonstrates.
5) if your siblings can’t afford to be that generous, you certainly shouldn’t force them to sell at that discount, and you should not take a dime. You control the estate, but you have a responsibility to distribute it evenly and fully, not give it away, not donate it to an elderly couple. You will ruin your family and your father’s legacy and they will be right to be mad at you for stealing their inheritance. Maybe offer it for $75k and take nothing yourself if you want to make a gift of it, absolutely don’t sell it at a discount without everyone’s agreement in advance. Trust me, I’ve been there.
6) are elderly people who need discounted rent really going to have $55k to buy even a discounted house? No bank would loan them money, they can’t pay it back. Is that a real offer?

bobknight33 said:

@newtboy

With my dad passing last month he left me to deal with his rental house.

Dad, being a racist white Trump supporter screwed his tenant, which are black . That's how Trump supporters roll, right?

Dad taught me well and will deal with them according.

Zillow estimates rent to be 1500$/mo. Lucky he raised his rent before his passing.


Dads wishes is that this couple in their mid 80's can stay as long as they want with the same rent agreement as signed back in 97.

Dads rent went up 20$ to 695/month. Way below market value.
The other 3 kids want me to sell it. I offered this house to them at 50% market value. House is worth around 110K$

newtboy (Member Profile)

bobknight33 says...

I respectively disagree.

This is the buy of the year. 40% off from its high. Not from anything Tesla has done ( or not done) but from the economic state America is going through.

I don't think this will turn around till our leadership changes in 2024


Since last qtr 2021 Tesla opened 2 Giga Factories Texas and in Germany. They are ramping up and will get full speed in 2 years. This year expect 200 thousand from these as they ramp.

Giga Shanghai was shut down and lost 50, 000 vehicles of production. They reopened fully 2 weeks ago . China economy is taking a big hit. But what isn't sold will be ship and sold elsewhere.


2022 yearly estimate production is still about 1.5 M vehicles for the year.

Wait time from order to delivery is average 7 months. Tesla increase their prices 8 times last year to keep this 7 months from getting worse.

Demand out strips supply.


Gas at 5$/gal isn't helping the ICE vehicles at all and will push EV demand even higher.


Like I said

This is the buy of the year. 40% off from its high.
Also looks like a stock split of 3 to 1 is coming. This does nothing but make it cheaper for those who would like to enter this. One can do so at a lower, affordable price point.



Buy and hold



Buy 10 shares and hold for 5 o 10 years.





FYI.
My dad passed away last month on the 28th. I've been out of work tending to him and now settling the estate.

newtboy said:

Ouch. From $1222 to $702 and projected below $600. Gotta sting for anyone who took @bobknight33 ‘s advice, especially anyone “all in”.

The idea that it might bounce back like it once rose is naïve too…with serious production and labor issues and no longer being the only game in town, not even the best anymore by multiple different measurements, Tesla is looking like it’s bubble might be bursting.

Ouch.

12 yr. old Palestinian MC Abdul "Shouting At The Wall"

cloudballoon says...

For my understanding, the general meaning of the word "Zionism" is vastly changed throughout the eras. And there isn't a homogeneous kind of Zionism anyway. What kind of "Zionist agenda" the people/government living in the land of "Israel/Palestine" in the 30-50s to today had in mind and pushing for is totally different. Let's be concerned with today's general definition of Zionism, as mostly defined by the Likud and the other far-right/Nationalist parties in today's Israel shall we?

Also, I can't imagine there are a whole lot of countries that would deny Israel's right-to-exist (like, physically, wholeheartedly want to wipe them of the face of the earth kind, NOT the expedient, political rhetorics for their own domestic consumption kind). And those that could really be crazy enough, like Iran, I constantly (naively?) felt the Ayatollahs would rather opt for silent, staus-quo relations than go to war with Israel (they must see the Ukraine invaison and see Russia/Putin isolation as a lesson, they can't afford to put themselves in the same position as Putin's in a Israel/Iran war. The Ayatollahs don't have even Iranian people standing behind them).

The good is that for Israel vs. the Arab countries, trust building is possible, but incredibly slow -- it only takes one wrong step to negate a mile of trust building -- but still, the past few years have seen some Arab countries opening up bilateral embassies with Israel along wiht increased trades & direct flights, etc.

The no good, very bad news of the statehood issues, daily IvP conflict, land grabs and from low-level militray incursions to the occasional missiles trading military operations, are happening far too often. Thus making hard-core Zionism, support of Hamas, the isolation of the Palestinian people & economy, etc. all the more severe. None of these are paths towards peace and/or creating the conditions for mutually agreeable settlement. All the flashpoints needs to be addressed in an even-handed way. But we just don't see balance in the media and/or the world political arena.

Hayes: NRA "Good Guy With A Gun" Theory Failed In Real Time

cloudballoon says...

Imagine the scenario where a bad guy pulls out a gun, the first "good guy" pulls out a gun, then a second "good guy" pulls out his gun... wanna bet the probability who the 2nd guy points his or her gun to? And the subsequent 3rd-nth good guys' guns going to point theirs to?

Oh, then unevitably the "no duty to protect" police forces come and shoot ALL the guys with guns.

Total chaos, and good luck untangling the legal lawsuits that will inevitably come after. America! F**k YEAH!!

"Good Guy With A Gun" Theory. These NRA honchos reaaaaaaaaaaaaaaally don't want their subservient cohorts think one more step ahead of any argument. The sad truth is there's enough of mindless American too lazy (or even capable?) to think ahead just as they wished due to America's educational system and pathetic "freedom at all costs" patirotism & American 2nd Ammendment Exceptionalism crap.

There are many democratic countries that said no to widespread gun ownerships (Australia, NZ, Japan) and are far better for it. I guess (read: I don't watch C-SPAN) that sense of American Pride infects even the Democrats to be gutsy enough to compare the US to other countries during legislative gun-control debates?

That assault-style (like the ARs) gun ownership rights is pretty FUBAR from the get go. If that's a right, why not grenades? Tanks, fighter jets, subs and heck, nuclear missiles? As long as I'm a "no criminal record" American citizen, isn't it my God-given right -- and my freedom! -- to own any weapons as long as I can afford it? Unhindered Capitalism at its finest we're talking here! The most American of values!

When Democrats have all branches in their states

newtboy says...

So, Bobby, what is the 2020 Republican platform?
“Block Democrats from any progress”, absolutely nothing else.
There wa a proposal for a Republican Party platform….”1) raise taxes by $4500 on all low income people who today don’t pay taxes because they are below the poverty level and 2) end all social programs like Medicare, Medicare, social security, food assistance programs, etc. by “sun setting” any social program every 5 years and requiring the new legislature to start over from scratch (unless the right has control, then forget it).

“We cannot blame republicans (for rich people not paying taxes) when HOUSE democrats have the majority” 1) the tax breaks for the rich were enacted when Republicans held the house, senate, presidency, and a supermajority in the Supreme Court…a simple majority in the house and no where else after the fact does not give Democrats the ability to repeal a horrific law.

Then he wants to blame the California legislature for local groups fighting against low income housing in their neighborhood, for zoning and construction laws that severely limit where and how you can build. Such nonsense. The housing crisis in California is not limited to the homeless, there just aren’t enough houses to buy or rent. Pretending there are just no programs to secure housing, that the legislatures just don’t care and are ignoring the issue isn’t just ignorant, it’s outright dishonest. No surprise at all considering the source. California has a housing crisis, not simply an “ignoring the homeless “ problem. Property in California is so in demand that average workers are priced out of the market and fully employed people find themselves homeless. Red states have cheap property because successful professional people don’t want to live there, which leads to more affordable housing and fewer homeless. My property has quadrupled in value over 20 years, and I’m not in any town or city.

California just approved $12 BILLION to spend on our homeless issues. Red states pass laws essentially making homelessness a crime, so many homeless migrate to “blue states” where services exist and they aren’t put in jail for sleeping in public or loitering.

Texas just made it illegal for homeless people to camp in tents.

So, Bob, tell me about the Republican plans to house the homeless in red states. About all the services and assistance they want to provide but are blocked by democrats from moving forward. Show me the high end Republican neighborhoods inviting low income housing into their neighborhoods, keeping in mind that many, even in California, are right wing neighborhoods with Republican led local government that blocks construction.

You’ve tried this nonsense propaganda before, about 6 months ago when it was originally posted if I recall, I debunked it thoroughly then. So sad @bobknight33 can’t remember anything for over 3 seconds or he would recall the last time he posted this nonsense opinion piece and I rubbed his nose in it.

Downvote into oblivion this right wing projection,

bobknight33 (Member Profile)

newtboy says...

Mr engineer, when there are two parties, sentence structure demands you use plurals….both sides have THEIR share of undesirables. An engineer should see grammar as a clearly defined structure that follows simple rules and just get it. Spelling is different, but grammar should be a no brainer….why is it so hard for you? Have you never seen it that way, or was engineering incredibly difficult for you too?

The difference being one side is all undesirables, and the level of undesirability. One side openly calls for an end to American democracy, death for their political rivals, death for anyone who disagrees with today’s talking point. One side has no party platform, no stated goals, and exists solely to stop any legislation the other side puts forth, even when it was something they want or that would benefit them. They are the same side.

We found another point of agreement.

Term limits are a must, and will never happen because our system does put the regulatory onus on those who need regulating….absolute insanity. It also lets them set their own salaries, ethics, and benefits.

Divestment is another must. Perhaps a bigger must. Total divestment across the board. Not just blind trusts that aren’t really blind, and absolutely not what we have now…the “honor” system run by the honorless. Allowing legislatures to write horrific laws because they can personally financially benefit is a recipe for disaster. That should (but never will) change.

Campaign finance is a third must. Corporations should have the same donation limits individuals have, which should be more like $100 each so every person can afford to have a voice, and we should return to an equal time on broadcast tv for free situation and deny the media as a political platform to give candidates a boost….no more Fox News interviews indistinguishable from campaign commercials, no more media smear campaigns, with severe penalties for violations, like $10 mil the first time, $25 mil the second, loss of fcc license the third. Another non starter….but needed badly.

PACs should be outlawed, or regulated into obscurity.

Some reasons often brought up in opposition to term limits can be traced back to Maddison who wrote "[A] few of the members of Congress will possess superior talents; will by frequent re-elections, become members of long standing; will be thoroughly masters of the public business, and perhaps not unwilling to avail themselves of those advantages. The greater the proportion of new members of Congress, and the less the information of the bulk of the members, the more apt they be to fall into the snares that may be laid before them,"

I think we have proven at this point the cons of self serving representatives legislating for personal gains outweigh the benefits of professional legislators, especially seeing as we have the internet and huge staffs to ostensibly level the playing field of knowledge.

One fix would be the creation of an ethics branch, completely non partisan, not self regulatory, with rules against former candidates (winners and losers) and lobbyists too from serving and strict rules about how they operate, and bans from running for office or being a lobbyist afterwards so it doesn’t become a campaign platform or tool for industry. Maybe even ban close family members from the same. Won’t happen, only the best people intentionally limit their powers, and they are few and far between in Congress….all but absent on your side.

bobknight33 said:

Cheney is 1 of the "others"

Both sides have its share of undesirables.

Term limits should be a must, but we have "the fox watching the hen house" so this will never happen.

Ukrainian Airstrike on Russian Soil?

newtboy says...

Hate to see the oil burning.
Love to see Russia get a little blowback.
I fully support expanding Ukraine’s border 100 miles into Russia to create the kind of “buffer zone” Russia tried to turn Ukraine into. 100 miles of no man’s land, all Russians must move. Ukrainians may settle there. Turnabout is fair play, and they deserve every inch of lost territory.
Then they should retake Crimea.

In a second story today, Russian troops are evacuating the Chernobyl area after poisoning themselves with radiation sickness by digging trenches, driving tanks, and generally disturbing the highly radioactive soil there. Those soldiers are in for a gruesome death, Russia can’t afford to treat thousands of cases of acute radiation poisoning.

In a third report, Putin’s ploy to demand rubles for Russian oil has already fallen apart on day one. They continue to accept euros…euros they can’t transfer to Russia because of banking sanctions!

Americans Tell NBC, “Blown Away” By Bidenflation,

newtboy says...

Downvote at dishonest “bidenflation”. This is Trumpflation if we must be infants.

Economists will tell you how inflation happens. Creating 1/3 of every dollar in existence to pay for things we can’t afford (2020) is the simplest way. Lowering GDP is also a factor (-2.2% 2020)
At least under Biden, wages are increasing too. Didn’t happen under the last president, not so much. Inflation from a glut of new money (but no added value) takes time. It will continue no matter what steps are taken until the spending we did on fake “credit” gets paid.

Another debt Trump left, not Biden policies driving inflation.
I defy you, @bobknight33, name 3 Biden policies that are driving inflation. Name one. I’ve named the Trump policy economists say caused it….printing new money to pay for programs without funding. Look it up.

As for meat prices, remember that little thing called Covid? Remember how the last administration insisted Covid was a mild flu, and meat processing plants closed because of massive outbreaks? That, and subsequent labor shortages have increased prices, not Biden adding taxes.
Comparing mid pandemic unnaturally low (shutdown means cheap fuel, even free oil) fuel prices to artificially inflated (refineries refused calls to ramp production back up) prices of today is a red herring, a paper tiger. Two factors there caused the increase, neither caused by Biden.

Total false narrative, or in bob speak, FAKENEWS!

STUDY: $500 Per Month Life Changing For The Homeless

newtboy says...

Did they offer that in the program, or was it only random individuals….or are you extrapolating, assuming the program became universal? I thought this plan was just for the indigent.

$500 each for 4 works out to more than my wife brought home for 40 hours a week after 15 years at her last job…..barely livable for 4 anywhere in California, a nice income in some states. Not a huge amount to provide for 6 months. How much does temporary housing, services, extra law enforcement, etc cost over that time for 4 people? I assume they’re close.

Yes, universal income is costly, but most on the right won’t consider giving the destitute money if they don’t get a handout too, that likely multiplies the amount by over 10 times. With a means test, it would be billions, maybe under $100 billion. We spent nearly $6 trillion on bad Covid response in 2020, including trillions to corporate welfare handouts with no strings attached and they still fired millions of workers. I think if that’s ok we can afford to invest in making people productive again instead of drains on society (of course, not everyone will benefit, but 75% success must be a win overall). If not, socialize any corporation that took a bailout, we bought em, we should own them.

…Or taking on more debt like every government project, but the increase in gdp from turning costs into profits likely pays for the program without a dime in new taxes, just a reduction in costs of handling the homeless and new taxes from their incomes….especially if you have a means test and not universal income.

Yes, they convoluted by calling it universal income but focusing on homeless. It should be UMI. Universal Minimum Income….under employed get less than unemployed up to a certain minimum livable combined income, fully employed (with living wages) get nothing….IMO. Sadly, a large portion of people can’t see what’s in that plan for them (no homeless, less crime dumbshits) so won’t consider it unless they also get $500 even though that’s not even a noticeable amount to them….one more ivory backscratcher.

bcglorf said:

I'm gonna have to be that guy. $500 a month for a family of four is $2k, which is a very good chunk of money to drop in your lap.

That works out the same as it they were on a single income, working 40 hour weeks at $10/hr, so almost equivalent to a full time job. No doubt that's gonna be a big deal and noticeable financial improvement to the recipient(s).

As always with UBI schemes, the devil is in how you pay for it. If it's truly universal, paying $500/month to ~330 million Americans would cost $1.98 Trillion dollars, meanwhile the current entire US gov budget for 2022 is estimated at $1.2 Trillion.

So, to implement $500/month universally in America would require not only increasing overall tax revenues by almost 50% it would also require the cancellation of 100% of every single other expenditure. That not includes military spending going to zero, but even cancelling the jobs of everyone that collects taxes and would presumably have been responsible for distributing the $500 checks.

If the 'fix' is to just tax the pants off anyone earning more than the $500/month, or limiting who we give it to, then it ceases to be a UBI scheme, and is instead just a mundane modification of the existing social security scheme by shuffling more money back and forth between different folks.

Baltimore high schoolers math, reading at grade school level

newtboy says...

I know….let’s cut public school funding and let some parents take more with vouchers that partially pay for private schools many can’t afford. That will solve it. Just have those neglected students pick themselves up by their bootstraps and just do better. Problem solved.

Public schools are awful, but the solution isn’t to just defund them. The solution is simple….more, and better teachers, and real standards for grade advancement. That requires more money.

bobknight33 (Member Profile)

newtboy says...

BTW, nice red herring.

Trump stole everything else. Trump is a consummate thief. Stealing from those who can least afford it.
True, he failed in his efforts to steal the election.
Is it your position that if a thief fails at another attempt to steal, they are no longer a thief? Then why don’t you back this guy, who failed to steal the 20 items?

I asked you why you support a repeatedly convicted thief and con man, your answer is “Trump didn’t (successfully) steal the election”. Pitiful.

bobknight33 said:

Trump didn't steal the election.
I just don't understand people that steal.

bobknight33 (Member Profile)

newtboy says...

Explain why, since Republicans didn’t want a bipartisan investigation, and didn’t want the Democrats to investigate alone, why are they perpetrating this new fraud to illicitly determine the evidence against them?

Records have revealed that Republican Representative Jim Banks has been conducting his own version of a January 6th investigation, in spite of the fact that he was kicked off the Select Committee before it even began. Banks has been writing to government agencies and even tech companies, claiming to be a "ranking member" of the committee who needs access to the same materials these groups handed over to the Select Committee. This seems like a lot of fraud by Banks, who was an integral part of the big lie that sparked the Jan 6 coup attempt, so totally ineligible to investigate since he will be a witness.

The only logical interpretation is he, and may other Republicans, can’t afford to guess what the committee knows because they would implicate themselves further by denying charges no one has brought against them yet and corroborating evidence they don’t realize implicates them. They’re terrified that not just Trump’s, but their actions will come to light and they’ll be exposed and removed from office….and horrified that their stupidity has put them in a place where they don’t have anyone in the committee willing to leak the evidence to them.



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