>> ^ChaosEngine:

>> ^smooman:
one more thing, if you honestly think that having sex with your S.O. before you marry em is what is gonna ensure you have great sex.......you really dont understand sex, at least on an intimate level. experience and time with one woman will produce mind bending sex, as opposed to experience from quantity of partners

I never said that. I said that if you're going to commit to marrying someone, you should not do so lightly. You should make an effort to get to know each other in every way and that includes sexually.
You don't know me or anything about me, so don't assume what I do or don't know about sex and intimacy. For the record, I have been married for several years, and before that my wife was my girlfriend for even longer.
This is really not that complicated. Or do you genuinely believe that it is better to wait until you're married to have sex?
Oh and SeesThruYou, you're a troll and not a very good one. We have world class trolls here like QM. Try harder.


who said that was directed squarely at you? lets try and not be so much of a martyr

"Or do you genuinely believe that it is better to wait until you're married to have sex?"
speaking of presuppositions, could you point out to me what words i strung together that you misunderstood as me championing abstinence till marriage?

>> ^ChaosEngine:

Did you even read the post? Here, I'll highlight it to help you.
>> ^smooman:
>> ^ChaosEngine:
Seriously what kind of insano would get married to someone without having sex with them first? Would you buy a car with taking for a test drive? I'm not even slightly joking here. And I'm not being sexist either, both partners need to know. Nor am I saying it's the end of the relationship if it doesn't work, but if you're committing to a lifelong relationship, you should go into eyes open.
And as for the whole "fornication is a sin" concept, we need to drop that crap. Unprotected sex is just idiocy, but if two consenting adults want to have casual safe sex, it's up to them. Honestly, we load all these expectations onto losing your virginity; "it should be special", "it should be with someone you love", blah blah. Let's face it, it's usually pretty unspectacular and awkward. These attitudes made sense when we didn't have birth control or protection from STDs but these days they're just a holdover from a time when you didn't want to end up diseased or stuck with a kid you didn't want.

women are cars now?

FFS, why is this so hard to understand? The puritanical attitude to sex before marriage is outdated and pointless. If you are making a lifelong commitment to be with someone, you should know about as many aspects of your relationship beforehand as you can. Actually forget sex, I wouldn't marry anyone with living with them for at least a year or two.


i did read your post. its not hard to understand. abstinence before marriage is outdated for sure (the institution of marriage is really recent, while throughout history laying with someone typically served as an act of marriage) but pointless? perhaps to you, but to each their own. to me? sex is sex. thats it. what my grievance is, is with the tired and utterly absurd "car test drive" analogy. its laughable on its face, and anyone who persists with it is just plain silly. women arent cars. sex isnt driving. theyre not even remotely comparable, except for humorous anecdotes exclusively.

its clear that you want to know every single detail you can about your future spouse before committing, and thats fine, that works for you. but i dont know if you knew this.......but we're not all you. some of us prefer the method of discovery. is it smart and recommended to live with someone at the very least for a little bit before you decide if this is someone you want to be with the rest of your life? absolutely. is it mandatory for a successful relationship? absolutely not. is it smart and recommended to have a physically intimate relationship with someone you are courting? depends, but usually ya. is it mandatory in order to have a healthy sex life and a lasting marriage? absolutely not

sidenote: love is not a feeling, it is not an emotion. it is action and commitment. if you want to know every possible detail about the relationship you have with someone before committing to them, if it works for you great! but i feel i need to remind you: we are not you. I would argue that whether you want to know all the details you possibly can, or if you know enough to be pretty sure, in either case if you both are committed to each other then who cares if youve had sex before marriage or waited till after.

I'll be the odd man out to say this isn't terrifying or horrible to me. I don't think it's a good idea and I would never, ever subject a daughter to it (and yes, that logo is fucking creepy... WTF?!?). But to call these people things like the American Taliban is hyperbole at its finest. You may not agree with them, but I believe they're doing it with the best of intentions, and no, I don't think it will scar the girls for life. Fathers who don't give a shit about their kids, they can certainly scar a daughter for life. There's no need to assume incestual desire is involved.

My problem is parents shouldn't be putting this on their kids, and yeah, mimicking what girls do with boyfriends to a tiny degree is a bit creepy. Teach them what you think is right, and let them make their own decisions... no need to make them read a poem in front of everyone or tell the world about it. I have no problem with abstinence if that's what someone chooses for themselves. I never would, cuz fucking sure is fun, but that's me.

To top it off, I actually found the last bit kind of sweet (well, compared to the rest of it anyways), with the father saying he'd still love his daughter, and her realizing it won't be the end of the world, if she breaks her promise.

>> ^shinyblurry:
Teen pregnancy and STD rates are out of control.


Yes, in states where they preach abstinence-only sex-ed. Bit ironic, that.

And in the rare cases when abstinence does work, the reward is a wedding night of awkward, painful sex. Huzzah!

Them pants are chock full of crazy!
>> ^shinyblurry:

Abstinence until marriage is a good thing, for one it gets rid of STDs and accidental pregnancies. Teen pregnancy and STD rates are out of control. No one makes good decisions when they're that age, especially not about sex.
Second, fornication is just plainly a sin, and for the reason that sex is a spiritual marriage between two people. You are spiritually joined to whomever you have sex with, forever.
The commentary here is what is disturbing..maybe you reprobates can't imagine giving up your carnal lusts because its what you're living for, but that lifestyle is meaningless, sad and no better than what animals do.

It hilarious that the same people who want to claim abstinence only education is 100% effective (their theory must be that the 99% who don't end up following their teachings just weren't actually taught and don't count) are invariably the same people that are 100% certain that virgin births DO happen, but are never ever smart enough to see the contradiction. (at least it would be if so many weren't in a position to make public policy)
Does this group allow anal and oral sex with Daddy? It's not intercourse, and so technically is abstinence.
Remember Quagmire's advice, the first thing to do when you meet a new girl (woman) is to ask the girl about her relationship with Daddy, if she says anything positive, move on to the next one.

I don't think Shiny's comment was regarding Abstinence education but the practice of abstinence itself. This seems to be the huge disconnect for folks who want "Abstinence Only Education", (One of the best examples: http://videosift.com/video/Rick-Perry-Insists-Abstinence-Education-Works)

Beyond that @lampishthing I agree completely... but that sort of logic isn't going to carry a lot of wait with the ridiculously holier than thou crowd whos only function seems to be to sit in judgment over all us sinners... which of course they're really quick to say isn't their place but that of their lords... and then proceed to do it anyway...

The problem with abstinence only education is that if kids fall off the band wagon (which they do... though not all) then they're much more at risk of teen pregnancy or contracting diseases. You said it yourself: "No one makes good decisions when they're that age, especially not about sex." Abstinence-only education means that when they do make a bad decision the results are worse.>> ^shinyblurry:

Abstinence until marriage is a good thing, for one it gets rid of STDs and accidental pregnancies. Teen pregnancy and STD rates are out of control. No one makes good decisions when they're that age, especially not about sex.
Second, fornication is just plainly a sin, and for the reason that sex is a spiritual marriage between two people. You are spiritually joined to whomever you have sex with, forever.
The commentary here is what is disturbing..maybe you reprobates can't imagine giving up your carnal lusts because its what you're living for, but that lifestyle is meaningless, sad and no better than what animals do.

"Abstinence works EVERY time." I guess she's never heard of the virgin Mary...On a serious note; the sooner these last few bronze aged myths are consigned to history -as have been countless myths before them- the better off we will all be.

Oh Puritans, will you never let go of your stranglehold on American society?



Yes daughter, the only reason you are on earth is to have sex with one man and only one man. It will be like he owns you!

And the stupid bitch: Abstinence all over the world bla. It ain't here! German women are ballcrushing harpies too well-educated and independent.

Abstinence until marriage is a good thing, for one it gets rid of STDs and accidental pregnancies. Teen pregnancy and STD rates are out of control. No one makes good decisions when they're that age, especially not about sex.

Second, fornication is just plainly a sin, and for the reason that sex is a spiritual marriage between two people. You are spiritually joined to whomever you have sex with, forever.

The commentary here is what is disturbing..maybe you reprobates can't imagine giving up your carnal lusts because its what you're living for, but that lifestyle is meaningless, sad and no better than what animals do.

Abstinence only works when it is actually practiced, i.e., less than 1 percent of the time. And, if you believe in Jesus, abstinence doesn't work.

I agree, this is brainwashing bullshit. My wife wishes she had waited because she regrets things but I highly doubt that waiting would have changed anything. Waiting is not the problem nor solution. Wisely choosing is. And that takes experience and free will.

Big upvote--hate the brainwashing cocks.