Almost as stupid as holding the producers of the toxic product AND the misleading or outright false information about it's hazards blameless. Because they actively misled their customers, I give them the vast lions share of blame, but maybe not 100%. There's plenty to go around.

You don't have to live in poverty to abandon fossil fuels.
Not.
Even.
Close.
I bought solar 10+- years back...it paid for itself in 8. It's lifespan is 20+-. I get 12 years of free electricity for abandoning that portion, with no blackouts, no brownouts, and no rate increases.

True, the video could be better at sharing the blame, but it stayed on topic instead, that topic being major polluters greenwashing their mage. I didn't take it as assigning ALL blame to one source, just not allowing the worst offenders to shirk all responsibility for their products.


Every one of these is the likely outcome of any anthropogenic rise over 2-3C because of feedback loops that drive us to 6-12C rise. Only the wars are likely this century, but I didn't put a timeframe on those outcomes. 140 million + will be displaced by just a 3' rise, which is all but guaranteed by 2100 under the most optimistic current projections.
That wipes out mangroves and other fish nurseries, further impacting the struggling ocean food webs. All the while it accelerates as our ability to cope erodes like the shorelines....it doesn't just halt at 3' rise.
The natural food webs on land are also struggling, and are unlikely to survive ocean collapse.

Not just from deforestation, but diatoms are near a point of collapse from ocean acidification. https://diatoms.org/what-are-diatoms. That's over 1/2....and the base of the ocean food web.


Since the IPCC (again, known for overly conservative estimates) now says at current rates we could hit as much as a 6C rise by 2100, and rates of emissions are rising as fast as carbon sinks are shrinking, they're not just a possibility, they a likelihood in the near future....but granted the hydrogen sulfide clouds are far in a worst case scenario future, far from guaranteed.

@newtboy,

Walking backwards to simplify, my main point is that simply blaming ALL fossil fuel usage on the company providing the fossil fuel is stupid and misleading in the extreme. We don't see millions of people willingly abandoning fossil fuels and living in abject poverty to save the world, instead they are all very willing and eagerly buying them and this video lets all those people off the hook. This video lets everybody keep using fossil fuels, and at the same time pointing the finger at Shell and saying it's all their fault. It's an extremely detrimental piece of disinformation.

"explain what, specifically, I claimed that's not supported by the science."
-Complete collapse of the food web
-Wars over hundreds of millions or billions of refugees
-Loss of most farm land and hundreds of major cities to the sea
-Loss of well over 1/2 the producers of O2
-Eventual clouds of hydrogen sulfide from the ocean covering the land
-Runaway greenhouse cycles making the planet uninhabitable for thousands if not hundreds of thousands or even millions of years

@newtboy,

If North America is to adopt the Amish lifestyle, how many acres of land can the entire continent support? The typical Amish family farm is something like 80 acres is it not? I believe adopting this nationwide as a 'solution' requires massive population downsizing...

If you want to look at the poorest conditions of people in the world and advocate that the poverty stricken regions with no access to fossil fuel industry are the path forward, I would ask how you anticipate selling that to the people of California as being in their best interests to adopt as their new standard of living...

You mention overpopulation as a problem, then invent the argument that I think we should just ignore that and make it worse. Instead I only pointed out that immediately abandoning fossil fuels overnight would impact that overpopulation problem as well. It's like you do agree on one level, then don't like the implications or something?

The massive productivity of modern agriculture is dependent on fossil fuel usage. Similarly, our global population is also dependent upon that agricultural output. I find it hard to believe those are not clearly both fact. Please do tell me if you disagree. One inescapable conclusion to those facts is that reducing fossil fuel usage needs to at least be done with sufficient caution that we don't break the global food supply chain, because hungry people do very, very bad things.

Then you least catastrophic events that ARE NOT supported by the science and un-ironically claim that it's me who is ignoring the science.

You even have the audacity to ask if I appreciate the impacts of massive global food shortages, after having earlier belittled my concern about exactly that!

The IPCC shows that even in an absolute worst case scenario of accelerating emissions for the next century an estimated maximum sea level rise of 3ft, yet you talk about loss of 'most' farmland to the oceans...

Here's where I stand. If we can move off gas powered cars to electric, and onto a power grid that is either nuclear, hydro or renewable based in the next 50 years, our emissions before 2100 will drop significantly from today's levels. I firmly believe we are already on a very good course to expect that to occur very organically, with superior electric cars, and cheaper nuclear power and battery storage enabling renewables as economical alternatives to fossil fuels.

That future places us onto the IPCC's better scenarios where emissions peak and then actually decrease steadily through the rest of the century.

I'm hardly advocating lets sit back and do nothing, I'm advocating let's build the technology to make the population we have move into a reduced emissions future. We are getting close on major points for it and think that's great.

What I think is very damaging to that idea, is panicky advice demanding that we must all make massive economic sacrifices as fast as possible, because I firmly believe trying to enact reductions that way, fast enough to make a difference over natural progress, guarantees catastrophic wars now. Thankfully, that is also why nobody in sane leadership will give an ounce of consideration to such stupidity either. You need a Stalin or Mao type in charge to drive that kind change.

Oh. I see now. This is Andy Gno trying the same thing he couldn't sell on his own, but this time putting "children" in danger to try to sell his lies.
Footage of Gno planning the violence to provoke a response they could film at the rally where he claimed to have been attacked has surfaced, so he had to produce another video to sell his fake narrative....this time the morons brought their kids (edit: turns out she's 24 and a well known provocateur, not a little girl, just a small woman they tried to play off as a young girl) to their attempted riot and armed them with pepper spray, only to abandon them when the inevitable shit hit the fan.

Andy Gno is not one bit credible, he's been repeatedly caught making up his stories and lying about facts, @bobknight33, just like 99.9% of your sources of misinformation.

Also note, your heroes here, Bianca and John Turano (alt right violent activists who posted their hope Bianca would be beaten before the event), are trying (and weakly failing) to smash random business windows as they flee....so who are the thugs?

Funny enough, video of the pair angrily accusing 5 year old girls of being terrorists because they're Muslims has surfaced, so in reality they , two adults, are the ones who attacked children that day.

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/video-shows-trump-supporters-saying-5-year-old-girl-looks-like-a-terrorist_n_5a3037d0e4b07ff75afe3900

Not worth channel reassignment, but this isn't news, education, or learning. It's debunked propaganda from a disgraced fraudster, miseducation, and as usual you bought it hook line and sinker and tried to resell it.

Sad you feel compelled to continuously spread obvious lies. Reality must be incredibly painful and frightening for you.

Once again, you ignore fact to spread dishonest propaganda.

This sure looks more like idiot right wing man took his daughter into an Antifa crowd to start a fight he wanted recorded.....again....and repeatedly abandoned his daughter in the process of trying to start fights for the camera.
Who waded into the opposing crowd with their "I hate you" messages? Who is dressed for battle? Who has a metal weapon? Who tried to hit multiple others with that weapon first?

Why don't we see the instigation, only the response? That's obvious to those with a brain....because right wing moron intentionally started a physical fight with a crowd with his child present.

What happens if you wear an AOC shirt at a Patriot Prayer rally? Or an "i hate Trump and the right" shirt? Far worse than this every time.


Republicans now happily include the KKK, Bob. Democrats abandoned racism in the 60's when the Republicans turned to it for survival.
They gladly courted the American racists to get Trump "elected", and for 3 years now have furthered the racist agenda....and you love it...you continuously call it winning.
Democrats denounce Antifa, Republicans say the KKK are good people, patriotic Americans, and gladly welcome in the Republican party, even as representatives.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_strategy

You know every word of this, but disingenuously spread totally dishonest and divisive propaganda like you get paid in rubles.
So dishonest and dumb, Bob. You don't convince a single person to adopt your dishonest viewpoint with this lame propaganda.

It might be if republicans weren't such chicken shit obstructionists that they flee their own states and threaten to murder police in order to obstruct the legislature from even voting on legislation they can't defeat by democratic means.
One party abandoned democracy and the rule of law....it wasn't the Democrats. It's a bit unfair to insist they keep playing fair and getting steamrolled when the other side doesn't. Sometimes the wrong method is the only path to the right outcome.

What about me? I do all those things and more. I didn't just change my own brakes, I swapped my own motor. I don't just plow my field, I sow, weed, and harvest that field. I've not only repaired a roof, I've built a few. I know hard work, I was a one man desert racing crew. Now that's hard work, being mechanic, transporter, driver, and pit crew....all at 112 degrees.

So, why don't I love Trump? Because I'm a real conservative....ecologically conservative, fiscally conservative, fact based, socially liberal (the government has no place in my bedroom or my body), and insistent on honesty.

Republicans abandoned conservatism before I could vote.

THEY fear us now like one fears the 100lb ranting sore ridden meth head at the bus stop, not for our strength and resolve, but our dangerous unpredictability and diseases.

Wow, Bob. Your head is deep in that hole to think that. I hope you wiped first.

We have two secret illegal payoffs for porn/playboy stars he cheated on his wife with (campaign finance abuses, and admissions that he slept with them and they might have proof, and indicators of his fidelity), "grab them by the pussy"...(and 14 people who say he did)....bragging about cheating on his wife with his friend's wives, multiple personal guilty pleas to frauds, tax evasion/fraud, charity fraud, 100 contacts with the hostile foreign power that helped defeat Clinton during the campaign (and a clear statement that he would love to collude with them again), 10+ cases of obstruction, uncountable illegal policies shot down in court (today he lost another, the census question designed to hurt Democrats and help Republicans, and now he wants to delay the census), a pattern of racism, a pattern of misogyny, a pattern of infantile whining, bullying, threatening, constant never-ending lies, denying science, ignoring legal precedents, destroying our international standing and reputation, multiple trade wars, .....and golf, never ending golf, far more than twice as often as Obama (who he called irresponsible for wasting time playing golf) at a cost to us of well over $100000000 so far (much of that paid to Trump's properties) and he still sucks so badly and cheats so blatantly that he has to hide from cameras every time....I just don't have all day to explain how much there is wrong with him beyond "grab them by the pussy"

Edit: Let's not forget the exponential rise in illegal immigration under his watch too....and his insistence he's building hundreds of miles of new wall that, in reality, is just mending existing fences he claims don't work.
Also, the increased division in America can't be ignored.

People are already swayed against him. Never reached 50% approval, losing to the top 10 Democrats in all polls, even his own. He won't get the angry Bernie Bro votes, or the undecided anti politician, or the old school republican vote, or a lot of farmer votes, or factory worker votes this round.

The country can't afford to have him win, Democrats gained power under him. Duh. Expect to lose the senate, and lose ground in the house, not to mention local governments.

Everyone not in your cult believes it's likely worse than is reported, because he's bullied news organizations so much they're terrified to make a mistake or even report the whole truth or he will label them enemies of America and your ilk will threaten their lives, and their children's lives, and actually try to kill them. Dozens if not hundreds of cases since his election....none before...or he might even directly threaten to have them arrested like he did last week.

Wages aren't rising (except for at the top), and absolutely weren't stagnant under Obama. In states where minimum wage has risen, it's despite Trump denouncing a raise in minimum wages. Massive inflation caused directly by his policies....trade wars, ruined trade agreements, etc., mean purchase power is falling, not growing. No infrastructure repairs, no repeal and replace, only attempts to ruin and leave Obama care, tax cuts for himself (despite his denials before they passed) and tax raises on the middle class (despite the fact he lied and called them temporary tax cuts before they passed), the biggest growth in the debt and deficit ever......that enough for now?

Totally fucking up the China and Iran issues, both are exponentially worse thanks to him. Jebus! It's ignorant insanity to imply they were ignored, you just didn't like Obama's agreements, agreements that were working to our benefit until Trump abandoned them, now we have trade wars with one, driving them into an alliance with Russia, and nearing actual war with the other.

Really...name the charges Obama had to defend in court. Derp. I can name DOZENS that Trump has, and is defending in court, and hundreds more he'll have to defend as soon as his shield of being president is gone.

Another post 100% wrong, Bob. I'm impressed, but not in a good way.

I think you people miss the point. She is in the wrong, disrespectful, and insulting from the get go. He's being a douche intentionally to get under the skin of people like her who believe they have no obligations to be decent human beings, people who leave their messes for others to clean up without qualms because somebody will take care of them. She was being a dumb bitch before he arrived, leaving her cart where it blocks both the parking spot and endangers the neighboring car, and could easily damage others by rolling, that's why cart return spots exist. Maybe his car has been repeatedly damaged by inappropriately abandoned carts, we don't know his motivation for demanding others not be irresponsible. He maybe should have just moved it and a few others to block her then sat back and recorded her outrage, and not engaged with the douchey nutjob....but that wouldn't have the desired effect.

Guaranteed she litters, despite her claims....she absolutely records him without permission, something she claimed was illegal when he did it. Rules don't apply to people like her. Civility isn't part of their makeup, neither is accepting social obligations...She must be a Trump supporter.

He was calm and polite at first until she went full superbitch on him immediately.

I fully support being a dick to dicks, and a douche to douches. I would have supported him knocking her phone out of her hand like she tried multiple times...turnabout is always fair play, and she was the disrespectful douchebag first and best....eventually blocking handicapped parking in her disrespectful rage after trying twice to break his camera/phone.

If you're doing something wrong that could harm others and someone calls you out, YOU are the asshole, not the upright citizen who saw something and said something. If you get outraged at being called out for ignoring your responsibility, you are the douchebag that deserves public shaming.

his timeline of growing resolutions ends with IMAX 70mm film - but historically that was used in cameras and theaters before many of the others he mentioned, and is now mostly abandoned in favor of digital projection.
8k is dumb. 4k only makes sense if you have a screen over 100".

Good question, but no, because they all renounced their citizenship when they seceded and joined the confederacy. Most petitioned the federal government and had it returned after the war, but it seems Lee's paperwork was misplaced and he died no longer an American citizen and without a pardon for treason.

Edit : there's a parallel today with those who joined Daesh renouncing their citizenship...just because no one recognized the Islamic state doesn't mean they're still citizens of the countries they abandoned and went to war against. Those people are traitors to their countries of origin, but not citizens of anywhere.


Also, you bring up an interesting point....since the confederacy wasn't recognized, neither is the rank of general they gave him, right? If the nation was illegitimate, so is any rank they offer....so logically he was never a real general either. We don't say Daesh military ranks are legitimate.

Yeah, like you've read it. We know that's what Dumb Donny told you. You know it's the heavily edited report, and it's still clear evidence Trump lies more often than not. Duh, Bob. Maybe don't leap before you look.

Not zero, plenty of convictions and admissions already, just not proof of prosecutable illegal collusion directly by Trump. Retweeting the Russians propaganda designed to elect him is collusion, meeting with Russian agents looking for illicit "dirt" on your opponent is collusion. Hundreds of contacts with Russian agents by his people that he outright lied about and hid, tens of millions paid to those in his cabinet by Russia that they lied about and hid before being caught and convicted.
34 guilty pleas are > zero. *facepalm
https://youtu.be/9g6M07aiozc

Obstruction charge is not a nothing burger, it's also not over by far....it was quashed here by Barr, but Mueller was clear there was action that amounts to obstruction, but he was unable to charge the president due to DOJ rules and would not make a declaration if he couldn't make a charge. The report is clear, he was not allowed to make a conclusion, and Barr is a fixer for Trump, always has been clearly and unambiguously, it's why he was nominated.
The report delineated dozens of attempts to obstruct justice by Trump that his advisors knew were illegal and persuaded him to abandon....and they were usually fired for it.


What we can see undeniably is Trump has publicly outright lied about nearly every point in the report...thousands of times....and his administration has fully fallen in line and repeated his lies to you, now admitted under oath, but we know you don't care.
You wouldn't care that Barron's real mother is his 1/2 sister. There's absolutely nothing you could learn about Trump that would change your mind about him, cultists are like that.

We now know that when Trump said "fake news" it meant "that's true" every time.

We know for a fact that not a single person working for Trump is honest or trustworthy, every single one has lied to the public for Trump's benefit at the expense of the Union....doing Russia's work to divide us.

We know for a fact that you don't care he's a pathological fraud and liar because you love Trump far more than America. I believe firmly that if he raped your pre-teen daughter you would feel honored, not outraged.


You made a boom boom....and he's the fake/illegitimate president.

Edit: So I'll assume consistency and assume you just haven't gotten around to declaring there were no Clinton crimes either then, right? She actually WAS cleared in no uncertain terms after a number of purely political investigations, he was specifically not cleared in no uncertain terms after a republican led, highly interfered with investigation. If you're willing to declare it a nothing burger, what is the Clinton investigation, a nothing prime rib with a side of nothing fries and nothing pie for desert?

Thats the problem, they've abandoned the more adavnced rockets the thing was designed for - I think the general consensus is thet SpaceX's massive reusable rockets have made the whole design concept redundant already - its another Spruce Goose I'm afraid.

Oh Bob...
2017 extremist related murder numbers are out....
71% were by right wing extremists-many neo Nazis
26% were by Islamic extremists
And those numbers should only include the murders, not the myriad of failed right wing terrorist acts like the multiple failed right wing mail bombers and caught in the nick of time right wing Coast guard terrorists.
Not sure how you plan to make a case that egg wielding left wing extremists are the real pressing danger, but I'm all ears.

In 2018, every single terroristic attacker in the U.S. had ties to right wing extremist organizations, although one had converted to Islamic extremism before attacking that doesn't mean (and there's little evidence that) they abandoned their right wing politics or philosophy.

Try to absorb that information instead of just being defensive and ignoring it....please.

No, it's not. You understand it, so did most people who listened. It's perfectly fine communication and that communication was clear about what they're doing. You may not like the fact they're using the system as they are, but their communication wasn't lacking imo.
If Christianity can abandon every tenet of the bible and stop following it's teachings yet continue to claim to believe in and worship Christ in order to receive the benefits of being a religion, bearing more false witness in the effort, Satanism can do the same without the lies and duplicity.

Um....many anti vaxers say EXACTLY that.

When words are misused by those attempting to control and harm you, misusing them in the same way to stop that is perfectly acceptable to me, especially when you're honest about it like they are (but Christianity isn't). The pretend lava daddy is just as valid as the pretend sky daddy and deserves exactly the same special protections and exemptions....none at all.