I believe this topic is about downvoting and the purposes behind it.

I'm making my point and @shinyblurry is helping me prove it. The main thrust of zappa's post is about downvoting for ideological reasons and shiny is wrapping himself in the idea that he's "picked on" because sifters hate religion.

This is an untrue statement. regardless of the topic, people downvote you if you make a comment that's full of shit.

Shiny's own post makes the claim that he perceived that this site was full of anti-christian videos. I'd argue that this is yet another fallacy and probably just him projecting his own insecurities. Sure there are people here that are very anti-religion. But I'd argue that most people just want to call out the bullshit when they see it. I've argued on a few occasions that religion is not inherently good or bad, it's what you do with it that is good or bad.

I get that the sift wants to bring in a more diverse group, but make sure you're doing it for the right reasons. If you're just trying to be diverse for diversity's sake. Then it's already a failed venture. Because bringing in "token" groups just so you can cloak yourself in the veil of diversity has not played out well over the years in various venues and basically insults the people in those token groups because you're not bringing them in because they have something valid to say or because they can debate and communicate their viewpoints well, you're bringing them in just to fulfill a demographic.

We've had plenty of sifts where religious people DO have valid and thoughtful things to say that contribute to debate and discourse. Pick just about any topic and you'll find a sift both pro and con for it.

Doesn't matter if you're religious, atheist, liberal, conservative, X, Y, or Z. If you make shitty arguments that don't hold up, regardless of topic, you're going to get called out...period. This is the nature of the internet. As @Boise_Lib alluded to earlier, we've all been downvoted at some point and probably for good reason. Logic and reason doesn't discriminate

>> ^BoneRemake:

At least demand money or such from Zappa if you are going to rob his thread. Shiny has the right idea, take it elsewhere.

At least demand money or such from Zappa if you are going to rob his thread. Shiny has the right idea, take it elsewhere.

I'll say a little bit about my experience here, since you brought it up @ZappaDanMan. The reason I signed up to videosift, initially, was to provide a counterpoint to the enormous amount of anti-christian videos I noticed being propelled into the top 15. There was no one here representing the other side of the argument, or posting any Christian videos, so I figured I would be that guy. However, I quickly found out that I was pretty unwelcome here, except, that is, for a few important exceptions. One is @dag. Dag has commented many times that he feels I am a valuable member of the community. Perhaps he recognizes the pitfalls of a lack of diversity in the sift economy. Quite often the comment sections, at least for anything related to religion, are echo chambers for militant anti-theists. That isn't a good thing if you want to have a broad-based appeal.

There are some individual users who have reached out to me, some openly like @enoch, most though in secret. The reason being is because from the beginning there was a concerted campaign to try to get rid of me. The first strategy was to downvote all of my videos and comments and deny my participation in the system. I am sure I am the most downvoted user of all the time. Can anyone (@lucky760) track that? There was a time when I couldn't get a video to last more than half a day. It wasn't because of the nonsense people are posting in this thread, it was because there was a group of people working against me to kill them all off. I have 18 discarded videos in my discarded posts folder. Granted not all of them were that great, but some were sincerely good. Can anyone else claim a number like that? I doubt it, because people don't generally treat eachother like that here.

When that didn't work there was another campaign waged to totally marginalize me by labeling me as a troll. Many people put me on ignore and advised others to do the same. I felt like I had entered into an Amish community and advised them to use zippers instead of buttons. That actually worked because at some point I decided to leave and stopped posting for awhile. I couldn't get any videos published, and every time I posted anywhere people would insult me, or ignore me. It was only because a few people reached out to me that I came back.

These days, it isn't as bad. People just generally ignore me and don't really downvote my videos that much. There has actually been somewhat of a softening towards me and I've gotten a few videos published, which surprised me. I also appreciate @ChaosEngine 's principaled stand and I wish more people thought that way. There have been some people who have consistently given me their votes (I won't name you because it will make you unpopular) even though I know they disagreed with the material. So I am not here to rail against the sift, because I appreciate the people who are being nicer to me, and I pray for all of you whether you like me or not.

The point I am making is that my experience completely affirms everything Zappa said. If you want further proof, just look at the amount of anti-religious vs. religious videos that have been sifted. There is no actual comparison. People downvote for ideological reasons (they hate religion) and that is why you don't see many videos that inform rather than denigrate religion on the sift.

It's frustrating to me that I seem unable to form strong opinions on many things. Like the current discussion of porn on the sift. I have an opinion, but I don't really care that much. It all just gets funnelled into that "You're for censorship/You're degrading the site" binary thing.

And downvotes - it's like using your horn in a car: it's kind of there for emergencies, but it's never really used in that context. Zappa's right - people downvote just because they disagree with you on a subject, not because you said anything inappropriate. I mean seriously - why downvote a comedy clip just because you didn't find it funny? But people do it.

But... I just don't care that much.

Sigh.

Channeling a little Zappa, perhaps?

Indeed, you'd think they would learn from previous shootings but I guess not.

In reply to this comment by ZappaDanMan:
In reply to this comment by Deano:
Thank you Zappa!


In reply to this comment by ZappaDanMan:
*promote


No problem. I thought it was rather relevent to that cinema shooting that just happened. Take care, Comb your hair.

In reply to this comment by Deano:
Thank you Zappa!


In reply to this comment by ZappaDanMan:
*promote


No problem. I thought it was rather relevent to that cinema shooting that just happened. Take care, Comb your hair.

Thank you Zappa!


In reply to this comment by ZappaDanMan:
*promote

Looks like Frank Zappa to me.

"Democrats--elect us because the other guys are nuts."

(In 1984, I participated in a high-school debate on Regan vs. Mondale. My team drew Mondale, and if you thought Kerry was lame, then you've never heard of Mondale. Maher's point above was pretty much our only available line of argument, and we got smeared. Listen also to Zappa's arguments from that time and realize that nothing has changed.)

Comment hidden because you are ignoring dag. (show it anyway)

Yeah, I don't think Frank Zappa is coming back - sorry. >> ^spoco2:

First I thought you meant Frank Zappa.
Then I went to the KickStarter page and was confused
Then I watched the video intro and was amused
Then I was something else...used... damn

First I thought you meant Frank Zappa.

Then I went to the KickStarter page and was confused

Then I watched the video intro and was amused

Then I was something else...used... damn

>> ^therealblankman:

They bleeped "Masturbation"??? For real? So sad.


That's the cutting edge for you.

>> ^zombieater:

Any idea when this was recorded?


Before his death.

>> ^jonny:

works for me.
notdead
length=4:26


That guy kind of looks like Zappa.

Works for me as well.