@enoch

I think what you are doing with the argument about consciousness is rather confusing to me. It seems to me that you are applying our own consciousness to the universe as a whole, in the same way I look at my dog as a human ie: applying human reasoning to an animal that I really know isnt capable of it. (such as predicting or planning future events, like "My dog feels a sense of abandonment when I'm on vacation" etc.) My dog, and even more probable, the universe, doesnt give a shit that I'm in the next room or 4000 miles away, it doesnt know that I'm in a different country and it has no idea how long I might be gone. But its in our human nature to treat the things around us, and even the environment itself, as if it was socially connected with us, the way a fellow human might be.

Now, dogs may be more perseptive than one would think, and us dog-owners may be more right about our relationship with these animals than our research has been able to establish at this point, and there is even some mounting evidence that they understand us better than we could imagine. But again, we are talking about complex animals with very sophisticated brains that have undergone domesticating selection for thousands of generations. In other words, the human and conscious qualities that I unwittingly apply to dogs may not be entirely fictional.

But to apply this (consciousness,awareness,prediction or social behaviour of some kind)to the universe itself, is another matter entirely. Unlike the case with dogs, for example, there really is no evidence for this, there is no known mechanism, or even a credible potential mechanism, to give the universe an intelligence capable of conscious thought. In fact, all the evidence and knowledge we DO have, suggests that the universe is overwhelmingly indifferent, unintelligent, unconscious, and contains nothing but physical energy condensed into matter.

If the universe was conscious in some way, why would it, for instance spend 4 billion years evolving life, and eventually creating conscious creatures like ourselves around a burning fireball thats destined to explode and destroy it all within a few additional billion years, rendering the entire excercise completely pointless in the grand scheme of things. The universe will go on existing for at least a hundred billion years after that, and there will be no, absolutely NO sign that life ever existed in this part of that insignificant little galaxy (one out of a hundred billion) In fact that galaxy itself would be nothing but a supermassive black hole with fading stars(literally) around it. All our books and all our efforts, all our suffering and all our triumphs will be gone. forever.


Allright too gloomy, I know, but its the truth. we live here.. now, and we should appreciate our tiny visit to the spotlight. We are the universe understanding parts of itself, in a few short decade I will be no more, and in a few million years, mankind will be no more. We are conscious, now, and we are as far as we can tell, the only things that are.

We are the universe's consciousness.
As far as we can tell.
I say enjoy it while it lasts.

Were i think Ron Paul's argument on this subject & many other stances that he supports all fall apart is on the premise that A) People always act in their best interest. B) If you have the right to kill yourself because 'Its your freedom to do so' due to opposing government or state protection, but should you require assistance for protection of your life should it be denied? & if so, would it be seen as the states emergency services inept ability to act to save you or a triumph of personal freedom?.

hey look..you are poorly informed here..you said my response was very unsatisfying and also inaccurate to boot? you stated that zoroasterism is older than judiasm as if it were an undisputed fact; well sorry but that is not the prevailing viewpoint. there is a lot of misinformation out there on this subject. if you just want to look at the merits of the case the Zoroaster belief is primitive by comparison, if one could be identified as a crude copy, that would be it.

The Christ Conspiracy is the main source of information in Zeitgeist].
http://www.answeringinfidels.com/answering-skeptics/answering-acharya-s/a-refutation-of-archary-ss-book-the-christ-conspiracy-pt-1.html

Was the New Testament Influenced by Pagan Religions
http://benwitherington.blogspot.com/2007/12/zeitgeist-of-zeitgeist-movie.html

The Death of the Mystery Gods and the Death of Jesus

The best way to evaluate the alleged dependence of early Christian beliefs about Christ's death and resurrection on the pagan myths of a dying and rising savior-god is to examine carefully the supposed parallels. The death of Jesus differs from the deaths of the pagan gods in at least six ways:

(1) None of the so-called savior-gods died for someone else. The notion of the Son of God dying in place of His creatures is unique to Christianity.[13]

(2) Only Jesus died for sin. As Gunter Wagner observes, to none of the pagan gods "has the intention of helping men been attributed. The sort of death that they died is quite different (hunting accident, self-emasculation, etc.)."[14]

(3) Jesus died once and for all (Heb. 7:27; 9:25-28; 10:10-14). In contrast, the mystery gods were vegetation deities whose repeated deaths and resuscitations depict the annual cycle of nature.

(4) Jesus' death was an actual event in history. The death of the mystery god appears in a mythical drama with no historical ties; its continued rehearsal celebrates the recurring death and rebirth of nature. The incontestable fact that the early church believed that its proclamation of Jesus' death and resurrection was grounded in an actual historical event makes absurd any attempt to derive this belief from the mythical, nonhistorical stories of the pagan cults.[15]

(5) Unlike the mystery gods, Jesus died voluntarily. Nothing like this appears even implicitly in the mysteries.

(6) And finally, Jesus' death was not a defeat but a triumph. Christianity stands entirely apart from the pagan mysteries in that its report of Jesus' death is a message of triumph. Even as Jesus was experiencing the pain and humiliation of the cross, He was the victor. The New Testament's mood of exultation contrasts sharply with that of the mystery religions, whose followers wept and mourned for the terrible fate that overtook their gods.[16]


>> ^enoch:
a whole page concerning zarathustra?
didnt you already answer this question?
and how does this page you link conflict with zoroastrian influence in the bible?
it confirms the influence on early biblical scribes.
/confused
and i notice still no answer on my other queries.
if you are unable to i understand.
again.i thank you for your prompt reply.

shocked?
tittilated?
horrified?
aroused?
all these are dynamics of the human condition in response to the world around us.
some times this translates in to uplifting and wonderful triumphs laced with love and compassion and other times it is a straight walk into the bowels of madness and cruelty.

i upvoted this video NOT because i approve of puppies being chucked into a raging river but rather to recognize the black heart of humanity and to look at that heart without flinching.
to do otherwise is to remain in the ivory tower..safe and secure in my own preconceptions.
while most know that there is cruelty and depravity in the world very few will have the courage to stare at its face.

over a year ago i posted a news piece where a father raped,beat and then murdered his own 8 year old daughter.
the video got sifted with more than enough votes.
yet this is a video about puppies=downvote city.
interesting is it not?
was it due to the fact that my vid was a news piece and not the actual act of violence and cruelty?
in my opinion my video had content FAR more disturbing than this video.

this video is disturbing in that the young women throws these poor puppies in to a river like she is skipping rocks.
not one sign of an emotional response and that is what i find most disturbing....
this womans demons are our own and to deny that,
to look away...
only gives those demons a playground to grow.
but when we stare that horror in the face we gain the insight and ability to recognize our own potential for cruelty and depravity.
we bring that beast in to the light of awareness and take away its ability to control and manipulate.

for some of us,looking away is not an option.

While I would not choose to phrase it that way, I agree with you in principle, westy. The big fear (which is hopefully not SIMPLY CONFIRMED by this SINGLE video) is that American will take this death as some major american triumph, when, in fact, this triumph can really only be located LARGELY on a symbolic level, and LARGELY in relation to a certain misrecognized reality on the part of the us state and its subjects.

We would do well to remember that Bin Laden made a hell out of many other people's lives before sept. 11th, and touched many other nations. This is NOT just an american triumph... many people are still picking up the pieces of their lives and countries as a result of the MISGUIDED american reaction to the attacks of sept. 11th, so they haven't really had the time or energy to even THINK about osama bin laden.

So, basically, I would have liked Obama to come out and point out all the FALSE POSITIVES: the deaths that were a result of America THINKING they were reacting to 9/11, but were, in fact, just carrying out acts of displaced violence. Bin Laden died MANY TIMES, it seems, because is image is so over-determined... the scope of his power and influence so shady... and he will die many MORE times if this absurd war on terrorism is allowed to operate as a seal over any more acts of military aggression around the world. This death is still just a symptom of the larger "war on terrorism," which will ALWAYS be imbalanced, confusing, and chaotic by its very nature. THat's how terrorism (and the reactions to it) operates.

We Americans might keep in mind that this death ALSO signals the end of the road for a giant beast that has gotten so big (its vision foggy from the steroids) in its rabid hunt for a little fox, that when it finally caught up to the small pathetic animal and ripped it to shreds, the beast is going to have to check into some kind of clinic to remember who it even is, or where it came from.

>> ^westy:

So naive uneducated and plain retarded.
Its baffling how ignorant many Americans are to the reality of the world how easy they are to manipulate and how often they are them selfs everything they profess to hate.

Hells yes. Bet you don't even remember that Jabba the Hutt was briefly seen in The Phantom Menace.

Watching the animatronic Jabba in ROTJ you can "feel" his weight just by watching him.

But, the march of progress...Avatar sucked, but that CG was a triumph.

>> ^Sagemind:

I'm so completely tired of CG characters. I believe that's partialy what killed the Star Wars Experience in the new films.
When I was a kid, the magic came from the behind the scenes making of sets, ships and creatures. The CGI aliens just don't have that tangent real feeling. Sure they make a great stand in and I understand certain things just can't be done in reality but use the real Creature Creation wherever possible.
Use the green screen for sets and for group or far shots but at close up, Use Real.
Imagine if all the Orcs in LOTR were CGI. Sure they used CGI but they had a hell of a lot of actual guys in makeup and costume to sell it as well. I know, Gollum was CGI, wouldn't have been my choice but they did put a lot of effort into him.
I believe with today's technology for Real effects, Creature Creation (and added CGI where needed), they could make far more convincing characters where we would identify with them emotionally as well as visually.

Oswald Mosley has finally triumphed.

Everyone keeps talking about hurt feelings. Since I am often in the middle of these dupe kerfuffles, I must assume that ya'll are talking about me.

Let me be clear. My feelings aren't hurt. Yes, I get attached to "my" wording, and "my" shiny new star, and "my" sometimes buttload of votes. I feel sad that a little triumph, a tiny little triumph, turns out not to be so.

But I honestly am thinking about the Sift as a whole. The Sift is a better place when there are good quality videos. That Bill Maher one, when it was duped -- 75 votes went to the original sifter, with only 4 duplicate votes (those of us with bad memories who hadn't realized they had already seen the original -- and that includes me). That means 75 new people liked a quality video. 75! This is only good for the Sift.

I have been very clear that I don't have a problem with duping after a currently popular duped video has run its course. I'll do it myself, "take away" my own shiny star, great title, and little mountain of votes. I'll wave a fond and sad adieu. But I will do it so the Sift isn't cluttered up with duplicates. That is the real issue, right? We don't want to be YouTube. I love this site and want it to be the highest quality.

No hurt feelings here, I assure you.

As for the idea that a dupe is keeping off another "new" vid from being in the Top 15 -- I can see that. All I can say is caca occurs -- caca if the dupe is immediately booted off because it is successful, and caca that a dupe takes up a spot that could go to another vid. Choose your caca of choice, that is subjective and everyone brings their life experience to the choice. Sometimes things really are either/or with no compromise possible. Make a choice and go with it.

4 more comments have been lost in the ether at this killed duplicate.

This video has been seconded as a duplicate; transferring votes to the original video and killing this dupe - dupeof seconded with isdupe by Fusionaut.

This video has been nominated as a duplicate of this video by gwiz665. If this nomination is seconded with *isdupe, the video will be killed and its votes transferred to the original.

*dupeof=http://videosift.com/video/Bjork-Triumph-Of-The-Heart

When this is dupeoffed, the other one gets this as a backup and is undeaded.

>> ^dystopianfuturetoday:

99.999% sure this is a dupe, but the search isn't working right now. Awesome video.


You're right. http://videosift.com/video/Bjork-Triumph-Of-The-Heart is dead though.

>> ^davidraine:
Was that clip shot with a 6 aperture twin-filtering camera? The color resultivity is amazing! It looks like they used ZN Xenon-3 lighting for this scene too. You can see how it accentuates the shear shadows on that computer. NCIS is truly a triumph in videography.


Well whenever you have the footage shot with a dual-lyopholizing meta-synthesis generator, you're gonna get good results.

Was that clip shot with a 6 aperture twin-filtering camera? The color resultivity is amazing! It looks like they used ZN Xenon-3 lighting for this scene too. You can see how it accentuates the shear shadows on that computer. NCIS is truly a triumph in videography.