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Do you think this practice belongs to another age?

MilkmanDan says...

Very good points.

My "cultural momentum" argument isn't so much an attempt to justify this stuff as a pragmatic take on who good counter arguments like yours (and the video itself) need to be directed at. "If all the tradition were stripped away" is easy for us "internet observers"; perhaps less so for the people that actually go to these events. But your approach is still a very good and persuasive one; much better than screaming PETA-like protests and confrontation that I think are more likely to just entrench the tendency to cling to tradition.


Your "having to realize that parents and grandparents were assholes" comment is apropos and truly is a very difficult thing to do. But I think the next step is ever harder -- realizing that our kids and grandkids will look back on things that we do and take for granted as normal behavior today, and come to the same conclusion about us that we have with regards to our parents and grandparents...

entr0py said:

To me a morally clarifying way to think about it is to ask, if all of the tradition were stripped away, would you still be okay with it.

Like, imagine a guy who likes to buy domestic pets and stab them to death over a few hours. He enjoys it, and cruelty exists in nature. But those arguments don't seem very convincing. Less cruelty is always better than more, and the joy of sadism isn't worth defending.

I think the hardest part of doing away with a tradition like this is having to realize that your parents and grandparents were kind of assholes. But we're all in that boat.

Do you think this practice belongs to another age?

entr0py says...

To me a morally clarifying way to think about it is to ask, if all of the tradition were stripped away, would you still be okay with it.

Like, imagine a guy who likes to buy domestic pets and stab them to death over a few hours. He enjoys it, and cruelty exists in nature. But those arguments don't seem very convincing. Less cruelty is always better than more, and the joy of sadism isn't worth defending.

I think the hardest part of doing away with a tradition like this is having to realize that your parents and grandparents were kind of assholes. But we're all in that boat.

MilkmanDan said:

I've been to bull fights in Spain (when I was very young) and Mexico. Also cock fights in Mexico and Thailand, and water buffalo fighting in Thailand. Water buffalo fights are very different than bullfighting though: two buffalo bulls lock horns and push each other around to establish dominance until one tires out and runs away. Injuries / deaths to the "losing" buffalo are possible but pretty rare. Actually, it ends up being pretty similar to fights that males would do to establish dominance in nature without any human intervention.

Basically, I'm not strongly opposed to or in favor of any of those. Cruel and unnecessary? Sure. But nature itself is frequently pretty cruel also. I don't feel the need to support any of these activities by paying to watch or betting on outcomes, but I don't really begrudge those that do. Often a lot of cultural momentum to overcome if you want to put these things in the past (where they belong?).

Upvote because this video was well done in technical terms, and because it makes an argument against bullfighting (and arguably other similar practices) to those that support it without being too abrasive about it.

How to paint an Easter Egg

nanrod says...

This isn't really a "how to" video, just a talented artist using an egg for a medium. Your other video about silk dyeing is more interesting as is this video about traditional Ukrainian eggs

related=https:https://videosift.com/video/How-to-win-Easter

Japanese Sunrise Dovetail Joint

Dog Feels Petting Instead of Abuse For The First Time

transmorpher says...

I'm trying to point out(and failing obviously lol): If we feel so bad for this poor dog, why do we turn a blind eye to farm animals that are mistreated and killed? They all feel pain and have emotional responses just the same.

We all like eating meat and butter, but is that worth the animals suffering and dying for it? (especially when there are some great alternatives. Nut butters, coconut butters, cashew spreads you name it, margarine at worst case) That's a decision for you to make. :-)

If a dog beater told you that "animals kill each other in nature all the time" would you accept that answer? Would that stop you from feeling bad for the dog?

When someone at the Yulin dog festival says "it's my tradition" or "I like the taste" do you accept that?

Then why do we make the same statements for cows? (don't worry, I remember yelling "lions tho" at vegans, so I'm not pointing fingers)

I just want to raise awareness about the horrors of animal agriculture and it's knock-on effects to the planet. And that we have a choice, and the power to change the world. We don't need to wait for governments or laws, we can make this change now, ourselves and there are no down sides, only wins.

It's just a matter of changing a few ingredients
https://www.forksoverknives.com/recipes/?recipe_type=wraps-and-burgers

JiggaJonson said:

Dogs = good
Trying to make me eat hummus instead of butter? = bad?

Idk, I don't think the two are as related as you imply. Either way, animals kill each other in nature all the time. You think if I didn't throw a lobster into a pot of water it'd die of old age? He'd probably get ripped apart slowly by a sea turtle.

^see how that doesn't sound like a conversation about abusing dogs anymore?

Post script: for the record, I believe the most humane way to kill a lobster is by driving a knife through the head quickly, NOT throwing it into the pot of water alive. I'm not for animals suffering, but I like eating meat and butter. The artery clogging is the animals paying me back. So it's all even.

Japanese people take their calculators very seriously.

SDGundamX says...

Japan is full of these kinds of paradoxes. It's like when you wander around Tokyo and find a Shinto shrine that is hundreds of years old squeezed between two skyscrapers. There are tons of things here that could be done more efficiently or effectively but aren't done that way because of tradition or social values.

Just to give one example at my own job, people nearly always come to see me face-to-face for even the most trivial of things that could be easily resolved with a one-line email. Most workplaces in Japan still very much appreciate the "personal touch" of interacting with another human being and value the relationship between co-workers over the efficiency technology can provide.

Payback said:

What they need to do is figure out how to put their facts and figures in electronic form. Maybe using a "computer" running a "program" that adds figures up in columns and rows like a "spreadsheet".

Hey! Transgender Kids

poolcleaner says...

Irish, German, Cherokee, Welsh, Scottish, Dutch with a Vietnamese wife -- what the fuck does tradition even mean to me?!?!?!?! IT MEANS NOTHING. You started this, you fucks. All throughout history!!! Your culture is FALSE and FAKE.

Hey! Transgender Kids

Asperger's Man Hijacks 100+ Trains/Busses, Arrested 32 Times

poolcleaner says...

Why are correctional facilities so DUMB? I know it's not right to steal and I've never had a problem with theft myself, but damn I don't agree that he even "stole" the train -- if he was stealing he would have the train off the rails.

No, he provides a service, even if it's a vigilante train service. I'm not saying it's right what he does but certainly law enforcement's response and punishment is WRONG. This shouldn't even be considered theft, it should be under a different categorization.

Traditional responses to human behavior are simply incorrect and unscientific, so despite the law, justice is not served. They're taking advantage of an autistic person -- and they profit from his behavior.

Law enforcement and corrections in America need an overhaul.

SNL - Jake Tapper

SFOGuy says...

*promote

SNL has an edge again.
The Jester doesn't usually have a real role in politics---traditionally, the Fool/Jester is denied any real credibility...
But this King (DJT) is letting the Fools get to him.
lol
Good.

Liberal Redneck - Muslim Ban

enoch says...

radical islamic terrorism is the usage of a rigid fundamentalist interpretation as a justification predicated on abysmal politics.

ill-thought and short sighted politics is the tinder.
hyper-extremist fundamentalism is the match.

ISIS would never even have existed without al qeada,who themselves would not have existed without US interventionism into:iran,egypt and saudi arabia.

and this is going back almost 70 years.

so lets cut the shit with apologetics towards americas horrific blunders in regards to foreign policy.actions have consequences,there is a cause and effect,and when even in the 50's the CIA KNEW,and have stated as much,that there would be "blowback" from americas persistent interventionism in those regions.which stated goals (in more honest times) was to destabilize,dethrone (remove leaders not friendly to american business) and install leaders more pliant and easily manipulated (often times deposing democratically elected leaders to install despots.the shah and sadam come to mind).

see:chalmers johnson-blowback
see: Zbigniew Brzezinski-the grand chessboard.

or read this article:
http://www.globalresearch.ca/america-created-al-qaeda-and-the-isis-terror-group/5402881

so to act like islamic radicals just fell from the fucking sky,and popped out from thin air,due to something that has been boiling for almost 70 years is fucking ludicrous.

radicalization of certain groups in populations have long been understood,and well documented.

and religion,though the most popular,and easiest tool to motivate and justify heinous acts of violence for a political goal,is not the SOLE tool.

nationalism is another tool used to radicalize a population.
see:the nazi party.

but it always comes down to:tribalism of one kind or another.

@transmorpher

so when you use this "ISIS themselves, in their own magazine (Dabiq) go out of their way to explain that they are not motivated by the xenophobia or the US fighting wars in their countries. They make specifically state that their motivation is simply because you aren't muslim. You can go an read it for yourself. They are self confessed fanatics that need to kill you to go to heaven. "

to solidify your argument,all i see is someone ignoring the history and pertinent reasons why that group even exists.

you may recall that ISIS was once Al qeada,and they were SO radical,SO fanatical and SO violent in their execution of religious zeal..that even al qeada had to distance themselves.

because,again...
religion is used as the justification to enact terrorism due to bad politics.
but the GOAL is always political.

you may remember that in the early 90's the twin towers were attacked and it was the first time americans heard of al qeada,and osama bil laden.

who made a statement back in 1993 and then reiterated in 2001 after 9/11 that the stated goal (one of them at least) was for the removal of ALL american military presence in saudi arabia (there was more,but it mostly dealt with american military presence in the middle east).

but where did this osama dude come from?
why was he so pissed at america?
just what was this dudes deal?

turns out he was already on the road to radicalization during the 80's.coming from an extremely wealthy saudi arabian family but had become extremely religious,and he saw western interventionism as a plague,and western culture as a disease.

he left the comforts of his extremely wealthy family to fight against this western incursion into his religious homeland.he traveled to afghanistan to join the mujahideen to combat the russians,who were actually fighting the americans in a proxy war.and WE trained osama.WE armed him and trained him in the tactics of warfare to,behind the scenes,slowly drain russia of resources in our 50 year long cold war.

how's that for irony.

osama was not,as american media like to paint the picture "anti-democratic or anti-freedom".he saw the culture of consumerism,greed and sexual liberation as an affront to his religious understandings.

this attitude can be directly linked to sayyid qtib from egypt.who visited the united states as an exchange student in 1954.now he wasnt radicalized yet,but when he returned to egypt he didnt recognize his own country.

he saw coco cola signs everywhere,and women wearing shorts skirts,and jukeboxs playing that devils music "rock and roll".

he feared for his country,his neighbors,his community.
just like a southern baptist fears for your soul,sayyid feared for the soul of his country and that this new "westernization" was a direct threat to the tenants laid down by islam.

so he began to speak out.
he began to hold rallies challenging the leadership to turn away from this evil,and people started to take notice,and some people agreed.

change does not come easy for some people,and this is especially true for those who hold strong religious ideologies.
(insert religion here) tends to be extremely traditional.

so sayyid started to gain popularity for his challenge if this new "westernization",and this did not go un-noticed by the egyptian leadership,who at that time WANTED western companies to invest in egypt.(that whole political landscape is totally different now,but back then egypt was fairly liberal,and moderately secular).

so instead of allowing sayyid to speak his mind.
they threw him in prison.
for 4 years.
in solitary.

well,he wasn't radicalized when he went IN to prison,but when he came OUT he sure was.

and to shorten this story,sayyid was the first founder of the muslim brotherhood,whose later incarnation broke off to form?

can you guess?
i bet you can!
al qeade

@Fairbs ,@newtboy and @Asmo have all laid out points why radicalization happens,and the conditions that can enflame and amplify that radicalization.

so i wont repeat what they have already said.

but let us take dearborn michigan as an example.
the largest muslim community in america.
how many terrorists come from dearborn?
how many radicals reside there?
how many mosque preach intolerance and "death to america"?
how many imams quietly sanction fatwas from the local IHOP against american imperialistic pigs?

none.

becuase if you live in stable community,with a functioning government,and you are able to find work and support your family,and your kids can get an education.

the chances of you become radicalized is pretty much:zippo.

the specific religion has NOTHING to do with terrorism.
religion is simply the means in which the justifications to enact violent atrocities is born.

it's the politics stupid.

you could do a thought experiment and flip the religions around,but keep the same political parameters and do you know WHAT we find?

that the terrorists would be CHRISTIAN terrorists.

or do i really need to go all the way back to the fucking dark ages to make my point?

it's
the
politics
stupid.

Did a 3D Laser Printer Kill A Bay Area Couple?

shagen454 says...

Here you go, don't test the nerds

Oct 22, 2015
"To call the Glowforge a 3D laser printer isn’t quite right. But the liberties the machine’s three co-founders have taken with the name are really more for the sake of having an intelligible way to describe a working laser cutter that’s the size of a desktop yet can perform the functions of the hulking, 700-plus pounds, $10,000-plus laser CNC cutter-engravers that are found in makerspaces and garages.
“I had a traditional laser cutter in my garage, and I would show it to people all the time,” says co-founder Dan Shapiro. “They would say, ‘Your laser printer is amazing.’ I’d say, ‘That’s not a laser printer.’ … At some point I learned the business advice that you’re supposed to be learning from your customers rather than lecturing to them.”
The machine Shapiro and co-founders Tony Wright and Mark Gosselin have created from their headquarters in downtown Seattle is really a laser cutter. It’s a subtractive manufacturing tool, as opposed to the additive nature of 3D printers." - Fortune Magazine

6/Six Amazing Pop-Up Paper Sculptures

Baking Bread with Lava in Iceland

newtboy says...

When I was there last summer, I found out that this is a traditional way of baking in Iceland.
In NZ, they called the hot springs Maori microwaves. They would just throw in a whole pig to boil until done (according to the plaques).

Mordhaus (Member Profile)



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