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PFAS: Last Week Tonight with John Oliver (HBO)

bremnet says...

Howdy - I don't know if "addressed" is the right word. Commented on, but not given sufficient perspective. Having said that, the problem is incredibly complex, so there should be no expectation that Mr. Oliver's video or any other single thesis on the topic could possibly suffice.

Your "one chemical bond difference" is an appropriate consideration, but with recognition that once we reach on the order of C20-C40 length dispersable or emulsifiable molecules as surfactants / surface energy modifiers, the insoluble polymers come into play, with not 30'ish bonds growing one at a time, but leaping to 20,000 or more. No doubt the pool has already been irreversibly pissed into by the irresponsible producers that convert small molecules into very, very large ones, but with some control, responsibility, and integrity in our industrial process owners (yes, hell just froze over) there is no reason why we could not safely continue to produce the polymeric forms of PFAS. We do so for substantially more toxic chemical conversion processes today.

It's interesting to note the (usual) examples brought forward by others in this post (Teflon cookware), just waiting for someone to mention Gore-Tex, but by far the biggest impact won't be on consumer goods that we all touch regularly and recognize the name brands of, but will be on the industrial / commercial uses of these polymeric families that are pervasive in the systems / processes that we all derive benefit from every day. Ironies exist, that perhaps confuse the "all PFAS are bad" premise ... consider - effectively every seal, gasket and control valve in a water purification plant is most commonly made of a PFAS polymeric compound, PTFE included, all tested to rigorous specifications and compliance by specific agencies that do nothing other than deal with potable water (thankfully not the EPA - it's National Sanitation Foundation (the other NSF), or Water Research Advisory Scheme (WRAS) in the UK etc.) .

So my contention and the view of many in the end user community is that it's not the final form of some of these compounds that are bad, it's the horrendous messes we leave producing them. We can't unwind our Clock of Dumb, but killing the entire crop just to get rid of the long ago seeded weeds doesn't solve the actual problem, it makes it much, much larger.

Thanks for your comments.

newtboy said:

To be fair, most of your complaints were addressed in the piece.

For instance, medical implants, fairly stable, yes, but not in extreme heat like cremation, so as used they’re toxic to the environment despite being considered stable and inert.

The reason to ban them all was also explained, banning one toxic substance at a time means one chemical bond difference and the company can go ahead with Cancer causer 2.0 for a decade until it’s banned for being toxic, and then repeat. It’s how they’ve operated for decades.

I’m fine with outlawing the entire class and putting the onus on the chemical companies to prove any new variants are safe instead of forcing the hamstrung epa to prove they’re unsafe. I also think any company that dumped it into waterways should be instantly and completely forfeited to pay for cleanup. No company has the funds to pay for cleanup, but their assets are at least a start.

PFAS: Last Week Tonight with John Oliver (HBO)

newtboy says...

To be fair, most of your complaints were addressed in the piece.

For instance, medical implants, fairly stable, yes, but not in extreme heat like cremation, so as used they’re toxic to the environment despite being considered stable and inert.

The reason to ban them all was also explained, banning one toxic substance at a time means one chemical bond difference and the company can go ahead with Cancer causer 2.0 for a decade until it’s banned for being toxic, and then repeat. It’s how they’ve operated for decades.

I’m fine with outlawing the entire class and putting the onus on the chemical companies to prove any new variants are safe instead of forcing the hamstrung epa to prove they’re unsafe. I also think any company that dumped it into waterways should be instantly and completely forfeited to pay for cleanup. No company has the funds to pay for cleanup, but their assets are at least a start.

bremnet said:

I hate it when the uneducated try to explain a complex issue and do a piss poor job of it. Is PFAS a problem? Sure. Are ALL PFAS compounds a problem with regards to their toxicity? No. The small molecule species are problematic because of mobility. The polymeric species are stable as fuck, that's why they were invented and why we use them as seals and barrier layers to isolate corrosive liquids and gases, and why we use them in such things as medical implants. The polymers excel because they are inert and largely unreactive. So - are they all bad? No. Are they all good? No. But it's too late - the fuckwits like Oliver have fueled the Emotional Response bus, and society won't stand for outdated concepts like scientific investigation or rational thought. Eight member countries of the EU are presently on track to restrict or ban all PFAS in any form, sweeping all compounds into the same category with no differentiation between a water soluble perfluorinated molecule like perfluorinated PVME and a one million molecular weight PTFE polymer. If it has a -CF2- moiety in it, it's subject to being banned. Good science doesn't matter any more, the knee-jerk fear mongerers are now making the decisions.

PFAS: Last Week Tonight with John Oliver (HBO)

bremnet says...

I hate it when the uneducated try to explain a complex issue and do a piss poor job of it. Is PFAS a problem? Sure. Are ALL PFAS compounds a problem with regards to their toxicity? No. The small molecule species are problematic because of mobility. The polymeric species are stable as fuck, that's why they were invented and why we use them as seals and barrier layers to isolate corrosive liquids and gases, and why we use them in such things as medical implants. The polymers excel because they are inert and largely unreactive. So - are they all bad? No. Are they all good? No. But it's too late - the fuckwits like Oliver have fueled the Emotional Response bus, and society won't stand for outdated concepts like scientific investigation or rational thought. Eight member countries of the EU are presently on track to restrict or ban all PFAS in any form, sweeping all compounds into the same category with no differentiation between a water soluble perfluorinated molecule like perfluorinated PVME and a one million molecular weight PTFE polymer. If it has a -CF2- moiety in it, it's subject to being banned. Good science doesn't matter any more, the knee-jerk fear mongerers are now making the decisions.

PFAS: Last Week Tonight with John Oliver (HBO)

GOP Purging Anyone Who Won't Embrace Trump's Election Lies

newtboy says...

This is purely a Trump thing.

It's a realization that the party has been taken over by RINOs, specifically Trumptards claiming to be Republicans, most without even knowing what the party stood for before Trump. Anyone who supports Trump isn't a Republican by pre 2016 definitions.

Edit: As late as 09, Trump was a democrat, then switched to Republican, then by 11 left Republicans and went independent, and under a year later went back to Republican and ran for president before dropping out and backing Romney....you know, the guy you say is a RINO because he doesn’t back Trump. In a July 2015 interview, Trump said that he has a broad range of political positions and that "I identify with some things as a Democrat." Previously he said -"In many cases, I probably identify more as Democrat", explaining: "It just seems that the economy does better under the Democrats than the Republicans. Now, it shouldn't be that way. But if you go back, I mean it just seems that the economy does better under the Democrats...But certainly we had some very good economies under Democrats, as well as Republicans. But we've had some pretty bad disaster under the Republicans.". During the last week of his presidential term, Trump was reportedly considering founding a new political party and wanted to call it the Patriot Party. Hardy a real Republican, and a prime example of the definition of a RINO.

Hopefully they will all be shown the door and the party will die along with toxic Trumpism.

McConnell, Graham, Gaetz, Green, McCarthy, Cruise, all those RINOs do all need to go, you're right.

bobknight33 said:

This isn't a trump thing.

Just realization that the party can no longer tolerate RINOS.

Hopefully there will be a good handful will be shown the door in 2022.

McConnell, Graham, Romney all need to go.

WaterCar Panther

3-year-old's priceless response after mom "ate all his candy

lucky760 says...

Totally agree with all the wtf sentiments.

I'd never prank my kids like this, and I think it's bad for them in general.

However...

1. I do enjoy the clips where kids are really sweet and generous with responses like "It's totally okay. I don't mind." and "I hope you didn't get a tummy ache." These are the types of kids where they seem to be getting good parenting otherwise (and seem to lack lowlife genes).

2. For the other dipshit kids with atrocious responses, I feel like they respond with selfish toxicity and disgust because they're already probably being raised that way, so this prank is just par for the course.

---

Weird flex I know, but fwiw my kids don't eat their Halloween candy, and they donate their haul at the dentist to send the junk to our troops.

(My kids don't eat candy in general, but if we, their parents, did tell them we'd eaten something they wanted, they'd respond with hearts full of happiness hoping we enjoyed it. My boys are wonderful. ❤️)

moonsammy (Member Profile)

newtboy jokingly says...

I have an excuse, newts are all toxic naturally.

moonsammy said:

Up to 233 now BAYBEE!

I appreciate that this site continues to chug along in spite of the precipitous drop-off in participation that it's seen. It's been something of an oasis of reasonable commentary on videos since forever, given that most comment sections are a toxic wasteland.

Youdiejoe's vid of the 2009 SoCal siftup

moonsammy jokingly says...

Up to 233 now BAYBEE!

I appreciate that this site continues to chug along in spite of the precipitous drop-off in participation that it's seen. It's been something of an oasis of reasonable commentary on videos since forever, given that most comment sections are a toxic wasteland.

newtboy said:

232 votes just isn't enough, eh?


I'm guessing there isn't a 2021 siftup planned.

Squadron of Canadairs is a formidable firefighting force

wtfcaniuse says...

It's usually just water or coloured water. Sometimes it has foaming agents, wetting agents, and other fun chemicals mixed in which are toxic.

BSR said:

I'd be more concerned about the fish than the drops.

Insanely Big Explosion in Beirut, Lebanon (compilation)

Buttle says...

The large, windowless square structure is grain storage. It blocked some of the blast but represents a large fraction of Lebanon's grain supply.

More details from https://www.moonofalabama.org/2020/08/beirut-blast-wrap-up.html#more

-------------------------%<--------------------------------%<------------------------------ RFERL spoke with the captain of the ship that had unintentionally brought the ammonium nitrate to Lebanon. He confirms the ship's arrest. It also reports the cause of the incident:

Lebanon's LBCI-TV reported on August 5 that, according to preliminary information, the fire that set off the explosion was started accidentally by welders who were closing off a gap that allowed unauthorized entry into the warehouse.

LBCI said sparks from a welder's torch are thought to have ignited fireworks stored in a warehouse, which in turn detonated the nearby cargo of ammonium nitrate that had been unloaded from the MV Rhosus years earlier.

Independent experts say orange clouds that followed the massive blast on August 4 were likely from toxic nitrogen dioxide gas that is released after an explosion involving nitrates.

There is a short video of firefighters at the initial fire. Reportedly none survived when the fireworks fire set off the ammonium nitrate. Another video shows the initial fire caused by welding. It burns a while and then sets off fireworks in a first explosion. This takes the roof off the warehouse. A few minutes later the fireworks cause the huge explosion of the ammonium nitrate.

Reuters provides another detail:

The source said a fire had started at port warehouse 9 on Tuesday and spread to warehouse 12, where the ammonium nitrate was stored.

That the ammonium nitrate was stored for seven years was not the responsibility of the port management but was caused by some judicial quarrel:

The head of Beirut port and the head of customs both said on Wednesday that several letters were sent to the judiciary asking for the dangerous material be removed, but no action was taken.

Port General Manager Hassan Koraytem told OTV the material had been put in a warehouse on a court order, adding that they knew then the material was dangerous but “not to this degree”.

“We requested that it be re-exported but that did not happen. We leave it to the experts and those concerned to determine why,” Badri Daher, director general of Lebanese Customs, told broadcaster LBCI.

Two documents seen by Reuters showed Lebanese Customs had asked the judiciary in 2016 and 2017 to request that the “concerned maritime agency” re-export or approve the sale of the ammonium nitrate, which had been removed from cargo vessel Rhosus and deposited in warehouse 12, to ensure port safety.

Mordhaus (Member Profile)

Joe Biden's Crime Bill In his own words.

newtboy says...

Lol.

Do you really think people respect your opinion on this?

Do you really think your dishonest far right wing propaganda is convincing to people who don't already believe that nonsense and are only looking for any confirmation of their ignorant opinions?

Do you not understand you look so incredibly wrong at every single turn that if you suddenly started saying Trump is a bad man unfit to lead, we would second guess our assessments?

The only benefit your opinion offers is a stepping off point for learning just how ignorant and backwards the right has become and how much better lackluster candidates like Biden are than you claim, or by comparison.

You and your ilk making accusations HELPS Biden. You are that toxic. Keep it up.

But not to worry, Trump is proud of his 8% approval rating with blacks. Too bad for you it's in the low 30's overall now, and dropping.

Even Republican senators have distanced themselves, now not mentioning Trump or his record at all in their commercials because he's so toxic.

Enjoy your second red tsunami, I know I will.

bobknight33 said:

Who is behind shoving blacks in jail? Mr Joe Biden, Democrat.

Who does not care about locking up blacks? Mr Joe Biden, Democrat.

Chris Rock Didn’t Miss Talking About Bad Apples

newtboy says...

*quality dissection of what "a few bad apples" means in context.
This entire crop is spoiled, tainted by the toxic sludge oozing from the bad apple at the top all the way down.

Are there some police, even most, who would never attack citizens, arrest someone they know to be innocent based on race, or falsify charges? Absolutely. Unfortunately there's a statistical vacuum when it comes to policing themselves. That makes them all accessories after the crime under the law, and as a fact.
The bad apples couldn't represent the police if the police fired them with permanent nationwide records so they can't just move to the next police force after being fired for crimes. Instead they shield and hide those rotting apples behind their blue wall, tainting themselves in the process.

When I see an Apple going bad, I throw it out immediately...I don't wait until it's become slimy and furry, spoiling all my fruit.

California Ocean Rave



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