When people wish me a Merry Christmas, I usually respond with either "Io, Saturnalia" or "Dies Natalis Solis Invicti!"

When they inevitably ask what I'm talking about, I tell them how Christmas is really a conglomerate of pre-existing solstice celebrations from cultures that were subjugated by Christians.

Christianity has the same philosophy on competition as Microsoft: Embrace, Extend, Extinguish.

I'd upvote this if it had any semblance to actual Saturnalia festivities. This is more like a Wiccan or Theleman ritual.

>> ^scottishmartialarts:
Mithras was a Persian god, not Roman. Although his mystery cult was very, very popular among the Roman Legions. Wherever we have evidence of a Legion presence, we also find evidence of Mithras cult. As I recall Mithras was Ahura Mazda's (the infinitely good god of the Zoroastrian faith) general in his crusade against the devil Ahriman. Darius the Great's conquests were largely motivated out of missionary zeal to spread the Zoroastrian religion.


Well, Mithra was the Persian name. Adding the "s" on the end was just how it was Latinized. But the Roman Mithraic cult doesn't, as far as scholars can tell, have much in common with the Persian cult beyond the name and a few elements of symbolism--a lion-headed "Arrimanus," for instance, a clear Latinization of Ahriman. It's perfectly acceptable to refer to the Roman version of Mithras as a Roman god.

It has to be said, though, that Fry's facts about Mithras are just wrong. In the first place, we don't actually know what the central beliefs about Mithras were. They were Mysteries, not be written down or revealed to outsiders. The doctrines of Mithraism perished with its last follower. Reconstructions of Mithraic doctrine like the ones Fry read are merely speculative interpretations of the images found in the Mithraea--the caves where the Mysteries of Mithras were enacted.

However, some of the things Fry said are just plain wrong even as mere speculation. Mithras is never depicted as being born in a cave or manger, for instance, but emerging from a rock or an egg. He didn't die for anyone's sins or to give people eternal life. The central image of Mithras was instead the tauroctony--Mithras' slaying of a bull, usually assisted by a dog, a serpent, and a crab, clearly astrological symbolism. While there are a few superficial similarities with Christianity--as Fry mentioned, the head of the cult of Mithras was called Papa, just as the Pope is--they do not seem to go very deep.

And finally, it would be very strange for the December 25th date of Christmas to come from the cult of Mithras simply because it was a private mystery religion. Public celebrations just weren't allowed.

However, I'm a little surprised that Fry didn't mention Dies Natalis Solis Invicti--the Birthday of the Unconquered Sun. It was celebrated in the late Roman Empire around the same time as Christmas as a public holiday, and so is a prime candidate for being an influence on the date of Christmas.

His quick dismissal of Saturnalia as being only somewhat influential, though, is just plain wrong. Many of the traditions of Christmas clearly come out of Saturnalia--gift-giving, visiting friends, and lavish feasts and celebrations. Many elements of Northern European Christmas celebrations just as clearly come from the pagan holiday "Jol" or "Yule," such as hanging mistletoe as a sign of peace and love, and the ornamenting of an evergreen tree.

Well, Mithras was no Mothra..

And Mithras holiday is certainly no Saturnalia.

Will You Be Celebrating Saturnalia This Holiday Season?

A celebration at this time of year is Saturnalia, one of the most popular Roman festivals. It was marked by tomfoolery and reversal of social roles, in which slaves and masters ostensibly switched places, with expectedly humorous results. Saturnalia was introduced around 217 BC to raise citizen morale after a crushing military defeat. Originally celebrated for a day, on December 17th, its popularity saw it grow until it became a weeklong extravaganza, ending on the 23rd.

The best exposition of Saturnalia has long been the Electric Sheep comic strip, but it's no longer easily available on the web, so here it is in a video created from the original website posted to Funny or Die.

*promote

ok, I just couldn't help myself.

Should the vote from saturnalia be allowed to stand? That was just one of choggie's post-banning accounts. It's functionally no different from a sock-puppet account in this context.

>> ^dag:
Choggie - it's still not OK to abuse people in private profile comments. Goodbye. again.


BWAHAHA that can't seriously be a rule or I guess it doesn't apply to sift royalty.. lol..

I'm still confused. Also, is English Choggie's first language? If it is, is he mildly retarded?

In reply to this comment by saturnalia:
hmmmmm....quite the cunt, perhaps dt's from a New Year's cold-turkey from so-called depression would resolutely solve what the meds can't- ...Otherwise, perhaps pound your next scrip all at once and chase it with Clorox.

In reply to this comment by UsesProzac:
Half-lesbian?? [Is that because I like boobs? Weren't we all raised on the tit?]

The image of you being reamed brings a smile to my face, actually. Does that make me even more of a lesbian? Am I now 3/4 lesbian?

Utilize the free time you'll have ignoring me by making use of a community-provided literacy course.

In reply to this comment by LittleRed:
I apologize for knowing more about anal sex than someone who professes to be half-lesbian, and share said knowledge. If you dislike me so much, why waste your time researching everything I've said?

But don't worry, I won't be wasting my time on someone who so obviously doesn't deserve it anymore. That's what you were hoping for anyway.

In reply to this comment by UsesProzac:
You are a worthless addition to the sift. You contribute nothing but your bad mojo and your terrible anal sex advice.

Like I said. Welcome back.

In reply to this comment by saturnalia:
Who the fuck is choggie? Who the fuck is blankfist? Oh, welcome back. What does that mean, skipper? No 2 equals are alike-This account is everyone's-several folks have the password-By the way, what the fuck happened to the man with no dick, and a borrowed sack, bereft of minerals? Figured someone in a similar state would have some information.....Word to the unwise: Keep your distance from yourself for too long, recognition becomes yet another false construct-

saturnalia has been InstaBanned by dag for gross violations of Sift guidelines. This account will now be disabled.

>> ^saturnalia:
Drattus, chill baby-


I was born chilled, there's no heat involved in a simple opinion. If someone was heated though I wouldn't hold it against them. As already mentioned jerks running red lights do kill people and the families of some of those victims post in video boards too, I can see how someone screwing with the system might upset them. You really going to tell them to chill?

We all have a right to the opinion as long as we're not hostile about it.

Jesusmas is an evolution of the Roman Saturnalia festival. When the Christian church was converting more and more pagans to Christianity, the masses didn't want to abandon their 12 days of orgies and feasting. So the Saturnalia became Jesus's birthday celebration, and that's how we got The Twelve Days of Jesusmas.