This is a most shameful episode. It represents failure at every level in the US:
The psychotic pilots were saw what they wanted to see, and either made an incompetent judgement on what they could see, or lied, or both.
* The rules of engagement were clearly misapplied and the chain of command failed to verify that a threat existed.
* The pilots then fired on civilians rendering aid to the wounded, which is a clear breach of US military code and of the Geneva convention.
* They also fired on wounded people who if they represented a threat before the were fired upon certainly didn't once shot with 30mm cannon (a weapon which incidentally should be used on materiel rather than people given that these look like exploding rounds).
* There is no proper investigation and the General lied to Reuters.
* Once the video released the White house and doubtless Pentagon behaved in a shamefully complicit way.
* Finally the US media behaved in an extraordinarily cowardly way. Why is it too shocking to show what ones troops do? If you don't want to be shocked your troops should be properly commanded and controlled?

I think this is a war crime. But who cares what I think? What should happen is that these pilots undergo a Court martial, and if found guilty serve long hard time, and if innocent (fog of war and all that) be exonerated by a court. That presumably is why there are military courts - to test difficult cases?

The bottom line here is that the US needs to sign up and recognise the jurisdiction of the International Criminal Court over the US military that most other countries accept, but which the US has failed to ratify, so that its soldiers and indeed the whole chain of command recognise that they are accountable for what they do. Why should US soldiers be exempt from a need to observe human writes in the same way as American Civilians? Only real accountability will prevent this sort of shameful butchery in future.

@campionidelmondo
The CEO is the man in charge, is he not? It's kind of the definition of the position. If you compare the best and the worst companies in an industry, it certainly seems to support the idea that corporate culture and actions, are heavily driven by the stances of the executive-in-charge. That means he -is- responsible for the actions taken by the company, no? If not, then what in the hell justifies those hyperinflated salaries?

Sadly, it's apparent that nationwide scorn has no effect on the type of person who reaches the CEO position...clearly we need bigger guns to get the point across. It's time to make it clear that stockholders are not the only people whose opinions should be counted...the rest of us are also affected by their actions and should have a fair say in setting the rules of engagement.

@ Raaagh

This is exactly the bullshit double speak that the average no-brainer 'wow i just saw a video and it was bad, therefore the whole country is baaaad' crap that makes internet discussions of this type of thing as pointless as the pre-pubescent dick swinging between your legs. So you agree that 'sanctions were bad' k, but 'the UN acted on behalf of the US'. Do you have any clue about the UN at all? About the decades of antagonism with the US, its complete paralysis during the cold war, through massive ethnic cleansing in bosnia where UN peacekeepers sat and watched and pretty much for every conflict ever since? Do you even comprehend the furore that currently exists around the UK and US interpretation of the UN mandate which was by no means a clear signal for war? No you dont, you probably dont know what UN stands for.

As for it being irrelevant, youre right - in your little video world the UN was nowhere in that shot so you havent been told an opinion on it yet. I could talk about 2007 and how the rules of engagement developed to the point the americans wouldnt fire until they had double confirmation of weapons because of incidents like this, about the brits blown up by american friendly fire and what a terrible waste of life war is generally and about a thousand other things that make the off the hand bullshit comments about 'OMG arent the americans evil' from a single clip only worthwhile on places like digg and videosift, but youre right - im not at that level. You sit on your fat consumerist arse and dont give a toss about where that keyboard you type on comes from, where the packaging it was wrapped in is now poisoning entire villages in china who burn it for 5p a sack, nah you just chucked it away. Well this war was fought to keep you in that idiot lifestyle of waste we all live in here in the west and at least i can see it, whereas you call it irrelevant. In all fairness you didnt see it in that video so how would you be expected to use the resource that is the internet for more than just typing crap in your short attention span world.

If its any consolation know i dont give a toss about your opinion, because by this time next week the top sift will be a rabbit that can chew a carrot with its arse and youll be saying its the most amazing this youve ever seeeeennn!!111!!!!

Rules of engagement now have gotten so strict that apparently if the bad guys throw down their guns and run away you can no longer shoot at them. So they run away and jump into another weapons stash to kill someone another day.

So why would you fire a warning shot?

Of course in 2007 the rules of engagement would apparently have been a little more "loose" for something like this to have happened. I'm not trained military personnel but I would have mistaken the camera for an RPG peeking around the corner. Plus we (You and I) most likely don't have to deal with the daily grind of being in a war zone and watching a parade of coffins with our friends - or bits of your friends - go back home.
With that in your mind, if you see something that looks even remotely like an RPG you would probably have your finger itching on the trigger too. EOD aren't the only guys that get stressed. Don't know what I'm talking about? Watch "The Hurt Locker".
I'm not saying I condone or agree with what happened, only that I'm not one to judge. My guess is that most people commenting in here aren't either. Certainly without ever having been in combat or in Iraq.

What the fuck are their rules of engagement? From the radio conversations in this video it seems like they'll just murder anybody who has dark skin and is standing anywhere near anybody who's carrying anything about the right size to be a weapon, regardless of who's side they're on. That's so indiscriminate that they might as well use nukes.

I looke here at this, and I see the posibility of the US becoming just like it.

A constitution rewritten by Corporations, and enforced by strong arm stooges with uniforms, rules of engagement, and little cards that tell them what human rights are.

As a public servant if you don't know basic human rights before you join service, you shouldn't be in service at all.

They call them Student Resource Officers here. They mostly started popping up in the wake of Columbine. I can't imagine anything the kid would have said that necessitated this take down. Even if he had said, "I have a gun and I'm going to shoot you," a rough take down like that doesn't follow what my cop friends have told me about their rules of engagement.

>> ^dgandhi:
>> ^Skeeve: Considering these are "Less that Lethal" devices that are meant to be used instead of weapons that kill people I'm very glad police forces are investing in these.
I call bullshit.
Please cite one example of police use of "less lethal" devices in which the rules of engagement call for lethal force.


Remember Kent State? While the "rules of engagement" may not have called for lethal force, it seems rather obvious that the lack of anything between billy clubs and guns directly contributed to the student deaths.

>> ^Skeeve: Considering these are "Less that Lethal" devices that are meant to be used instead of weapons that kill people I'm very glad police forces are investing in these.

I call bullshit.

Please cite one example of police use of "less lethal" devices in which the rules of engagement call for lethal force.

This is the documentary on Waco he mentions. Already sifted.

This speech is word-for-word what he gave on the day. You can read more about him in his book "Rules of Engagement", a very good read.

It’s a Slow Sweethearts’ Roast beginning at 3 p.m. EST, on Friday, August 15, 2008:

Roastee: Obsidianfire

Mistress of Ceremonies: karkarlee


Look for karkarlee’s kick-off post and rules of engagement. A survey interview will be posted shortly.

THE JESTER


http://parody.videosift.com/talk

It’s a Slow Sweethearts’ Roast beginning at 3 p.m. EST, on Friday, August 15, 2008:

Roastee: Obsidianfire

Mistress of Ceremonies: karkarlee


Look for karkarlee’s kick-off post and rules of engagement. A survey interview will be posted shortly.

THE JESTER


http://parody.videosift.com/talk

It’s a Slow Sweethearts’ Roast beginning at 3 p.m. EST, on Friday, August 15, 2008:

Roastee: Obsidianfire

Mistress of Ceremonies: karkarlee


Look for karkarlee’s kick-off post and rules of engagement. A survey interview will be posted shortly.

THE JESTER


http://parody.videosift.com/talk

It’s a Slow Sweethearts’ Roast beginning at 3 p.m. EST, on Friday, August 15, 2008:

Roastee: Obsidianfire

Mistress of Ceremonies: karkarlee


Look for karkarlee’s kick-off post and rules of engagement. A survey interview will be posted shortly.

THE JESTER


http://parody.videosift.com/talk