Yesterday IDF forces murdered 3 hostages who were shirtless with hands up (so obviously unarmed) waiving white flags and begging for help in Hebrew. 2 shot to death immediately, the third shot to death after cease fire was called by the commander.
This is conclusive evidence that the IDF is targeting any living person including surrendering unarmed civilians, not Hamas. In fact, over half the 30000 bombs they have dropped are dumb bombs, and the smart bombs target hospitals, refugee camps, and caravans of refugees (anywhere civilians can be found in groups) 100% intentionally.

The world needs to wake up and eliminate expansionist Israel and the terrorist Zionists, every single one is a fascist murderer just like the Nazis and they deserve the same treatment.

Sadly, a huge percentage of the terroristic murderous “settlers” are American Jews, so don’t let anyone claim America isn’t to blame here, we not only cause the conflict, we fund it and arm the murderous side.

We deserve any blowback we get, no matter how big.

HOLY SHIT!
THERE’S NOW OVERWHELMING EVIDENCE THAT ISRAEL HAD THE BATTLE PLAN FOR THE OCT 7 ATTACK AT LEAST A YEAR BEFOREHAND, KNEW THE GOAL OF THE OPERATION WAS TO START A WAR, AND WAS GETTING INTELLIGENCE INFORMATION INDICATING IT WAS BEING IMPLEMENTED IN THE WEEKS AND MONTHS LEADING UP TO IT AND INTENTIONALLY IGNORED IT!

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/11/30/world/middleeast/israel-hamas-attack-intelligence.html

Keep in mind Israel has insisted until now that they had absolutely no evidence of the plans to attack beforehand which was CLEARLY a BLATANT lie.
It’s sounding like Netanyahu’s administration wanted this war as a pretext to genocide and allowed the attack intentionally.
Their war crimes, indiscriminate, intentional, even targeted bombing of civilians, including official refugee camps, the destruction of 2/3 of hospitals, the complete leveling of the cities and infrastructure of the entire region, the forceful direction to evacuate to what immediately became the next bombing target, and the direct murder of over well over 11000 non combatant women and children so far go a long way towards proving this.

Reminder, Gaza has a massive completely untapped natural gas reserve just offshore discovered 20 years ago that Israel would love to annex and exploit, and could if Gaza was empty.

Today Israel bombed the largest remaining hospital in Gaza.
There are no Hamas fighters in the hospitals. International reporting by multiple embedded reporters in hospitals confirms that.
The hospital and its parking lot were also another refugee camp. Israel knew this when they bombed it.
This was an intentional attack on injured civilians and doctors designed to increase the civilian suffering as much as possible.

Time to glassify Jerusalem and expel the Zionists. Let them BUY a country instead of stealing one next time, or fuck off and die in a ghetto without food, water, or medicine. No sympathy whatsoever for murderous war criminals that repeatedly intentionally target children.

I count it as a hyper generous humanitarian gift given by Palestinians on day 1 that by day 3 (year 10+-) had become an invasion of hostile violent foreigners.

Because I don’t have a perfect solution for a problem no one could solve at the time does not in any way shape or form excuse the hostile invasion or fascist racist genocidal regimes since…
…but my solution would be every able bodied Jewish man and woman join the French (or Polish, Russian, British) army and fucking fight, not run off and invade elsewhere. If they had the fighters to take Israel, they had the fighters to turn the war years earlier, but went for invasion and occupation instead.

So, you DO think the people of Haiti have the right to come to your doorstep and toss you in the street. I disagree. I reiterate, not being safe at home is no excuse to go elsewhere and make it’s inhabitants unsafe, especially if those inhabitants had nothing to do with you being unsafe, more so if they actually stuck their neck out to make some of your family safe.

I’ll try to unscramble that…”what would I have the existing Jewish Palestinian population and new refugees do with themselves once in Palestine?”…the native Jews, nothing. They’re citizens. The refugees, refugee camps of a certain size and no over crowding. Once they’re full, go elsewhere. There were other places to go, although limited. The British had an obligation to support the Palestinians and prepare them to run the country, an obligation they completely shirked and instead facilitated the invasion of hostile foreigners while keeping the Palestinians defenseless.

Fuck you 6 million. They weren’t waiting for legal avenues for immigration. Those people for the most part had no option to be refugees or decide a thing, the Germans and Polish essentially woke up one day unable to travel. The people we are talking about had over a decade, and included Germans.

No, my POV relies on the theory that you having a bad time doesn’t give you a license to murder me and steal my stuff and subjugate my descendants horrifically.
Historically many groups have had tough scary times, many ending in actual genocide. Few took that as an opportunity to do the same to another group that was trying to help them out of the tough spot. Zionists did….and with Americans help. I’ll never stop pointing it out.
The Palestinians in Gaza are suffering a genocide today. Do they have a right to go invade some weaker nation for their safety? No. That’s not reasonable or acceptable.

I think your POV relies on the theory that, because Jews were being increasingly persecuted in Europe that gives them the right to take a friendly nation by force and subjugate and persecute its people forever…

Yes. What’s your point? You seem to agree with me, except you go back to the 20’s instead of early 30’s. I’m not a Palestine scholar, sorry if I get details or dates slightly wrong, sources vary on many points. It doesn’t change my point, that under British rule European Jews were allowed to immigrate in huge numbers despite opposition from the native population that was being overwhelmed by increasing unwanted forced immigration. At first it was accepted even encouraged by the empathetic natives, but quickly became an overwhelming unwanted invasion of people intent on taking over, not some moderate number of refugees looking for temporary refuge.

Who the fuck cares what the reason they wanted to invade was? Palestinians weren’t responsible for their plight, but still stood ready to help until invaded and subjugated harshly by the invaders.
Should Venezuelans be allowed to take over Pennsylvania because they want out of Venezuela for good reason? Or Chinese? Or any African? Or Central American? Certainly Haitians have it bad enough to make it ok to take a state for themselves! Yes, Europe was dangerous…for anyone. That’s not an excuse to invade, murder another person and steal their land and subjugate their descendants for decades, but that’s what they did…and what you’re attempting to excuse.

Well, that explains it then. You think because the Jews had it worse once, it excuses being the Nazis today. I do not, I believe it gives them more reason to never be anything like the Nazis, not emulate them. The Palestinian plight is worse than many Jews in Europe besides Poland or Germany. They’re already in the ghetto, not free to travel and maybe get out. They’re already oppressed, subjugated, starved, dehydrated, often without power or communications, and 100% under the thumb and control of their oppressors. Sounds pretty shitty to me. Your family murdered at a whim with no repercussions sounds pretty bad. Your ancestral home taken by force and family shot for existing sounds fairly bad. I’m not sure how you think it’s OK because someone else maybe had it worse once.

When they “arrived in Palestine”, it was as an illegal unwanted invasion intent on taking over and expelling or eradicating the native population. They deserved violence 100%. The population was doing more than their share accepting refugees, then for their humanity was invaded and dehumanized in their own country. No excuse can make that acceptable unless it had happened in Germany post war.

Yes, Jews were the bad guys, invading a land they had and have no right to. You got it! They didn’t even have a right to refugee status there, it was a gift, they absolutely had no right to take control and possession by force, nor to become the inhuman monsters they were fleeing in Northern Europe.

Absolutely not. What even was his plan, I ask you. It wasn’t securing the borders.

I support the plan to FUND border parol and immigration courts to not only secure the border but repair the immigration process that does not function today. With a functioning immigration process, most would use it, making stopping illegal entry much easier.

I support refugee camps in the East Texas desert, not open release before processing.

I absolutely do not support actual open borders, nor allowing other countries to just send plane and train and boatloads of unvetted people in in numbers that would make natives the minority in quick fashion, nor do I support returning Texas (including Oklahoma, Kansas, Colorado, Wyoming, and New Mexico) to the Mexicans even though they are fleeing near the same level of fear, oppression and death from narco gangs and have some hereditary claims (which European Jews did not, they were mostly not Semitic genetically). I disagree the circumstances were much more desperate in the 30’s outside of Germany, and I disagree that the choices are Trumpism or no-border free-for-alls.

In short-The small population of Arab natives along with a native Jewish minority welcomed a relatively small number of European Jewish refugees in the (edit:20’s and early) 30’s while under British rule (but with a date set for their independence by the League of Nations, a date that came and went without ever establishing a Palestinian state). Then in the 40’s (even by mid 30’s)the Jewish minority, America, and England ignored their pleas to minimize immigration, ignored immigration laws, and invited a major invasion, so many European Jews came illegally that the Arab natives quickly became the minority, then had all rights stripped by the now well armed invaders that now claimed their land and property…invaders that kept coming by the millions. How is that not an invasion of squatters?
It’s a complete abandonment of the Palestinian Mandate the Brits ruled under, which was allowed internationally after ww1 for the sole purpose of getting Palestine in a position to rule themselves, something the Brits failed to even try then actively sabotaged by supporting the mass immigration of millions of European Jews, and was the biggest possible “fuck off and die” to the Palestinian people that had cooperated fully with the international plan for their independent future that was unceremoniously stripped from them and handed to Israel.
From that point, details don’t matter so much. Invading occupying forces don’t get to whine because the natives won’t just go away and die….at least I’m not listening when they do. Want to stop being attacked, stop murdering innocents and taking land.

I wonder why you think Israel is not so dominant seeing as they already proved repeatedly their military dominance even when their neighbors band together. Not one of the countries you mentioned has an advanced military, they are last gen at best, really two or more generations behind, and have third world resources not trillions to spend. Iraq proved that advanced weapons beat numbers hands down every single time. Unless Iran gets a nuke capable of getting through the highest levels of missile defense on the planet, their “neighbors” (Palestines allies) pose no actual threat to Israel and a pretty minor threat to the expansionist settlers invading Palestine.

I never ignored any rolls of the neighbors supporting, arming, and instigating unrest…but those roles are minuscule compared to the actions of Israel. Nothing recruits for Hamas like the Israeli army. Nothing creates more terrorists than murderous settlers. No other factor has 1% the effect that Israel’s own actions do in creating enemies.
Murderous expansionist settlers should be eliminated with prejudice immediately. They are the biggest factor driving Israel’s murderous regime to murder more innocents.
If Israel acted civilly instead of treating the natives like the Nazis treated them, its neighbors couldn’t easily convince angry teens to pick up guns and shoot Israelis. Give the Palestinians something to lose, or they’ll have nothing to lose, a chip on their shoulder, and a clear enemy responsible for their plight. This is the official recipe for a terrorist.

Blaming the neighbors is like claiming N Carolina is RESPONSIBLE for all shootings in N Y because some guns used are procured there…nonsense. They are complicit, but minimally so. It’s the shooters motives you need to look at, not the store they use. Why are they so ready to sacrifice their lives to just shoot or throw rocks AT Israel (99/100 times hitting nothing)? Because they have nothing to lose but life in an ever shrinking ghetto ruled over by a foreign racist regime that wants them just gone and is more than happy to starve children to death and bomb refugee camps to accomplish that goal.
The neighbors didn’t invade, expel, ghettoize, and gleefully murder the Palestinian people, that was Israel.

Blaming the victims is not an argument that will win many over…and no question the Palestinian people are the TRUE and only victims.

Where are the European countries now…the same ones that facilitated the Jewish invasion should be obligated to enforce the borders, and/or take the Palestinian refugees and free them from the ghetto/prison Israel keeps them in….but none are.

Side note- I keep hearing people who support Palestinians described as anti semitic. It bears noting that European Jews, the VAST majority of Israelis, are NOT Semitic…but all Palestinians are. Being pro-Israel is actually and factually anti-Semitic.

I mean what I said. Trump (and his subordinates at his direction) made up new regulations, New laws, New restrictions, New limits, new procedures, and new rules that combined made it not just harder but often impossible for people who, before Trump under any administration would have been quickly granted asylum in accordance with the law. He also slowed the process for legally applying, limited the number allowed to apply in a way never done before, and created new systems where instead of waiting in the country they had to wait in another country with no services in crime ridden refugee camps if they're lucky, sometimes sent south of Mexico, many instructed to go home and wait, homes they fled under direct and credible threats of death or worse....many after having their children taken.

Trump did not simply "enforce current laws". He changed them, misinterpreted them, ignored them repeatedly and flagrantly, then enforced those he liked. Consistently the intent was to minimize any immigration as much as possible from countries that aren't predominantly white. Not once was the intent to streamline the system so it would improve, every step was designed to slow the process and deny entry to as many people as possible, even those with legitimate life or death reasons for asylum. He even changed those rules to exclude narco terrorism death threats to be a reason for asylum, not because they aren't valid but because there are too many.

When you personally create the "law" you're enforcing by (often illegally) changing the rules and established interpretation of long standing law and policy to make following the law near impossible and often deadly, you don't get credit as if that's being a humanitarian just enforcing the law. Duh.

Edit: BTW Mr law and order, Trump never followed the law in his business dealings nor with his taxes or his loans (hyperexagerated his property values on loan documents, while minimizing their value on tax forms). His best excuse? His claim that he's not a real businessman and didn't even bother to read the loan and tax documents he swore were correct because he had no idea if they were.....His claim that everyone does that, everyone is a tax cheater and bank fraud perpetrator, is asinine.....but exposes him as the criminal fraud we all know he is, not a man who respects the law.

Wait....I drink a line by the gallon? Probably better if you don't try to use metaphors, buddy. You don't know how.

Trump's plan? Working? Which one?
His plan to start a depression and epidemic concurrently, making America less appealing?
Or his plan to deny entry to even unaccompanied minors, leaving them alone in Mexico, ripe for abuse with no protections?

You know Biden is continuing the rest of the Trump plan so far, only letting unaccompanied minors across into refugee camps....like Trump did until he caught flack for caging them and denying it....don't you? Probably not. OANN isn't telling you that, and you abdicated your ability to think for yourself long ago.
No one opened the border. You're being lied to again by the same asshats that convinced you of the election fraud fraud. Why do you keep begging them to mislead you? Why do you so enjoy being a misinformed idiot, Bob?

It's odd you aren't complaining about caging them in over crowded camps (which I see as an abject failure by Biden's administration)...perhaps you can foresee the ridicule you might get for complaining about the same thing you defended Trump over?

If Trump's failed fence worked at all, there wouldn't be any making it....but it doesn't work at all....it's usually less secure than what it replaced. It can be cut through in minutes with battery operated grinders and takes days to repair. Some fell down from wind. Almost any section can be pulled down with a car and a chain in seconds. He removed imperfect barriers in favor of useless fencing, making it easy to drive truckloads of anything across the border at will. Thanks Trump....great plan.

I would admit, Biden isn't doing better at preparing for the numbers of refugee children, and he hasn't changed policy much beyond not abandoning children to the cartel sex trade, but treating refugee children like refugee children and not like criminal lowlifes is a step in the right direction. Now we need the infrastructure to handle them. For the money wasted on Trump's legacy fence we could have built it already and could have a functioning immigration system, but Trump had to have that fence....that Mexico didn't pay for.

Note, the main reason people are coming is narco terrorism, created by the war on drugs and made exponentially worse when Trump cut international funding to fight it when his ass wasn't properly kissed by other country's leaders. End the failed war on drugs and use that money to fight organised crime in central America and the flood will be a trickle overnight. Of course, the right has no interest in that, and ignore the evidence of how well decriminalization works.

🤦‍♂️

So....now you believe in evolution.

My question to deniers like yourself, what difference does it make if it's man made, it's happening, and we have the ability to at least mitigate it, but you and yours would just say "nope, ain't real" as your home in Florida goes underwater. Why not take control?

Since it's not real, can we have your children's names to deny space in refugee camps? They can stand outside and laugh at the dry folks, secure in the knowledge that dad said it's natural.

I know a lot of people from Thailand, mostly second gen Thai Americans, but some Viet, Mong, and Cambodians whose parents were in refugee camps in Thailand or who worked at those refugee camps. I don't live in Thailand though, so I'm giving a second/third person account, but several of my friends who have Thai influences laugh and joke about the Hitler thing. Nothing shocking to someone who lived in BKK or had parents who did. I feel thankful for having grown up with Thai people, all of whom i met in honors and AP classes in high school.

But basically what that means is, I don't know any of these misinformed Thai people, just those that left Thailand for America and tell tales of their homeland.

@MilkmanDan, thanks for filling in some the gaps of my knowledge with your exp!

Not in America. Our crime stats show that immigrants, even illegal immigrants are far less likely to commit crimes than citizens (if you omit the crime of illegal entry). Foreign born (legal and illegal combined) had an incarceration rate of around .7% while citizens are incarcerated at about 3.5% (both stats for men age 18-39 from a 2007 study)

I would counter that refugee camps are mostly dangerous places because they are relatively unregulated warehouses for disparate, desperate people with little opportunity for education, work, and often food and water. Limit those things, jam differing populations together without any meaningful law enforcement and the population will become dangerous every time, no matter who they are. Desperate anarchistic struggles for survival usually do that to people. Well run camps that offered opportunities and some security to those living there have been far less dangerous places historically.

Would that fly with you if Obama had said that to Christians that had completed the immigration process, or already immigrated but were on business outside the US? Just go somewhere else, you scare us. You would not accept it.

You do get that many people now 'banned' already lived here, right?
You do understand that those refugees already accepted went through an invasive 18-24 month vetting process while living in refugee camps with no jobs or schools, right?
You do understand that some who've completed that process and were accepted because they put their lives and their families lives in danger by working for America in, lets say Syria, are now denied permanently and their lives are now in danger from retaliation, right?
You do understand that those already accepted would have sold their homes and assets in their home countries, left their jobs, and in some cases purchased property in the US, right ?

If this were done by Obama, or to white Christians, you would be frothing at the mouth. Just wait until Canada bans white right wingers because you guys have now proven to be terrorists and lets see how you react. I seriously doubt it will be with calm patience and an 'oh well, we can just go elsewhere' attitude.

After 2 years of a difficult application process completed in a refugee camp, we have a duty to those who successfully completed our process. The same goes for non refugees who completed the process. That was the deal we made with them, and they've completed their part. No, becoming hostile won't help public opinion, but why would they care? Public opinion of them is already terrible when they've done nothing wrong, and that same opinion mirrored in Trump has cost them dearly. Now, imagine you're a pissed off displaced teenager who's just escaped war and gone through the lengthy application process with their surviving family in terrible conditions the whole time, you are accepted, and then some guy just says "nope, you escaped the wrong war torn country, Fuck off"....would you be pissed at them? Maybe pissed enough to do something stupid? Now imagine there are numerous organizations looking for people just like you who convince you to act on your adolescent anger. Do you not see how blocking those people creates terrorists where acting honorably and keeping our promisses would create allies?

They ARE angry at them, irate, but they are war refugees, not mercenaries. Most able to fight them already did, and we're killed by them, Assad, or Russia.

When doing everything right by our standards at great expense gets you a nice "Fuck off and die" , why would a sane person continue?

I think they get the brunt because 1) they don't stop refugee migrations and terrorists just walk in with refugees, a problem we don't share, and 2) because of their foreign policies, an issue we do share. Their populations, and even governments are becoming more xenophobic.
Also, I haven't heard of any terrorist acts in Greece, a country that's arguably helped the refugees the most.

1)As if they DID know what the future would hold when they left? EDIT: Those things you mention had not happened when the Jewish people invaded Palestine in the 30's, and NO ONE KNEW what was coming 10 years later.
2)Yes. The European Jews invaded FIRST. Before that, the Arabs and Jews lived peacefully in the region from all history I can find. There was no 'civil war', it was a war against invaders coming from all over Europe in an effort to 'create' a nation.
3)The Jewish population was not growing in relation to the Arab population, so it was still <8% when the European Jewish invasion began, an invasion of foreigners, not a native population boom which the Arabs had. Duh.
4)'standing army' is hardly a measure of applicable force. If it were, we would be Iraqis today. They had far more men in their army when we walked over them with advanced technology, exactly like the Jews did. I've been over that. We (the US) supplied them advanced weapons making enlisted numbers meaningless...
...also, you ignore that ALL 'Israeli' are in the army, 100%. The 'standing army' number is only the professional soldiers, not the entire force by far.
...AND....The Jews didn't need to mount any defense if they had not invaded.
5)What should they have done? Much better minds than mine have failed on a solution that pleases everyone, but stealing another people's property using deadly force, and then subjugating the survivors for decades to the stone age in concentration camps is absolutely NOT the right answer.
That said....If they were truly 'refugees', they should go to refugee camps (as should the Syrians, I don't get why they are spreading all over Europe, but I digress) until they can either be assimilated in other cultures or return home. Period.

Once again...things being bad at home does not give one the right to just move in on someone else's land and push them off. That's what Israel is, a land theft by overwhelming force, and an expansion of that theft continuing to this day. EDIT: It's akin to me stating 'my brother abuses me at home, so I'm moving into your house and you're moving out, and my buddy's with big guns gave me some to force that to happen.' Is that OK? If so, what's your address?

6)Have you seen the stuff right wingers used to wright about Jews...how about the KKK? How about Palin and her cohorts? If some idiot spouting hatred is a reason to run, the entire planet would be on the run all the time.
Would you support blacks invading any European countries they choose because they are treated poorly here in the US? With money and arms? Displacing the current residents and subjugating any that stay as sub human non citizens? I doubt it. EDIT: Would you also make the argument then that it's OK because the invaders are a smaller military than the country they invade, even though they have far better weapons and more of them? What's the difference?

The one's in the 40's that were in line behind the last person allowed in each year based on the numbers they allow in per country were too late. Yes.
I think most Jews that illegally immigrated to Palestine in the 30's didn't come from Germany.
Yes. Those that fled in the 30's were only fleeing fear, not actual attack. Those that fled in the late 30's and 40's were mostly fleeing actual attack. It is somewhat shameful that we didn't recognize what was happening and let more in, but that has little to do with Israel.
Before the massive illegal immigration of the 30's, Arab and Jewish Palestinians treated each other equally well. After the influx of millions of Jews, illegally, against protest by the non Jewish populations, there were problems created by both sides, but the Jewish side was the invader side, the Palestinian side was the 'native' side. And, as you say, the Invading Jewish Palestinians were the minority, but took all the power in the area, by force. They had far more money than the Palestinian side, and more access to weapons, and took advantage of those advantages.
Again, Holocaust survivors are only owed something from GERMANY. The Palestinians did NOTHING to them, yet they are the one's who've had their land and autonomy taken, and have been forced to live in a walled off refugee camp for decades by the invaders.
Yes, the surrounding countries banded together because they saw the invaders would continue to invade and expand into their territory, they were 100% right. Sadly, the US supported Israel and made it a one sided fight in favor of the invaders.
The Nazis were not fighting invaders, they were invaders, fighting a 'race' (more than one really) at home and fighting an expansionist war of aggression...sounds familliar.
Not taking up arms and invading would have seen Jews still alive and well in the area, but not in absolute control, not expanding their control, and not in such numbers. They had been there for centuries. Only when the millions more invaded and seized power to create an exclusionary religious state and displace and subjugate the locals was there a problem.