Land mines, dude. Land mines.

OK. What about land mines?

I don't buy it. Probably just pyrotechnics that look impressive. Actual mortar rounds or land mines or whatever would have at least knocked him around.

ed: Pardon me, her. Should have watched until the end.

This was a common tactic in the first world war, and where the name 'land mine' comes from. Kinda surprised anyone would do it in this situation. I guess it worked, though.

It's really depressing how things are going down in Syria. There can be no good ending to this story--at least, not for a long, long time.

Er, what happened to land mines?

Ineffective != Terrible

If it costs 1200 Euros (on average) to clear one mine, releasing 24 of these things to detonate ONE mine is still cheaper than other option. If one of these things detonates one landmine, perhaps one seven-year-old gets to keep her leg. Money well spent. Until the local population can afford Million-dollar landmine-clearing tanks these can make a small difference for relatively modest costs.

You are correct that the whirlygigs are more expensive than many landmines. Mines are cheap. Getting to the root of the problem and banning use and production of landmines is a greater issue.

This video may help to *promote attention to an ongoing global problem. Presently, Russia, the United States, Israel, India and Pakistan have still not signed up to the the Ottawa Treaty. A further issue is that many manufacturers of munitions, including mines, are heavily invested in by stock-brokers and pension funds. The BC Investment Management Corporation, for example, which manages investments for teachers' and public servants' pensions plans has in the past had as much as "$4.6 billion worth of stock in 251 corporations producing war materiel." There is money in war. People get paid to build landmines.

>> ^Drachen_Jager:

Terrible idea. It's not systematic enough to clear any given area with certainty, and people may think of zones where these have been operating as 'clear' instead of as potential landmine areas. I think this invention has a great potential to increase the number of accidental landmine detonations, lost limbs and deaths.
Maybe it will explode a few, but when some of it's 'legs' get blown off it stops moving. Does someone go out there, risking his life and limbs in what is now a known minefield to fix it, or do you just leave it there? Because they may seem cheap, but 1 whirlydoohickey blown up per 1 landmine disarmed is hardly 'cheap', when some landmines cost under a dollar, and they may be spread out in the thousands in a given area.

A lot of misconceptions here:
>> ^Drachen_Jager:

and people may think of zones where these have been operating as 'clear' instead of as potential landmine areas. I think this invention has a great potential to increase the number of accidental landmine detonations, lost limbs and deaths.
Generally, people don't whimsically choose to walk through an area that is covered in land mines. Most Westerners tend to discount the power of local knowledge, and to assume that everyone else in the world is just running around from unknown place to unknown place like we do. Fact is, in places like Afghanistan, the people are hyper-aware of the local situation, particularly when it relates to their personal security and they tend to stay in a small geographical area (no weekend trips to the lake or across country to see Grandma). Landmine deaths occur most often in places that are not marked as dangerous and alongside roads (which tend to be the only path between one location and another.
>> ^Drachen_Jager:

Maybe it will explode a few, but when some of it's 'legs' get blown off it stops moving. Does someone go out there, risking his life and limbs in what is now a known minefield to fix it, or do you just leave it there?

Ummm.... how do you think landmines are removed now? With hi-tech robots and a smartphone? Plenty of lives and limbs at risk in this world cleaning up the messes of violent conflict.
>> ^Drachen_Jager:

Because they may seem cheap, but 1 whirlydoohickey blown up per 1 landmine disarmed is hardly 'cheap', when some landmines cost under a dollar, and they may be spread out in the thousands in a given area.

IF the current cost is §1200 per landmine removal, then, yes, §40 per landmine is cheap.

wtf, is like one of you the mom and one the dad ? this makes no sense at all. Lets cheapen the site by allowing puppets to roam free and clear.
In reply to this comment by lucky760:
Your frequent commenting activity immediately after creating your account triggered one of our anti-spammer land mines.

I've unblacklisted you, though @<a rel="nofollow" href="http://dag.videosift.com" title="member since February 16th, 2006" class="profilelink"><strong style="color:#008800">dag may find that you should remain blacklisted.

Your frequent commenting activity immediately after creating your account triggered one of our anti-spammer land mines.

I've unblacklisted you, though @dag may find that you should remain blacklisted.

>> ^criticalthud:

yes, we can debate laws and other agreements of questionable merit. but
i kind of think the US is acting like an asshole. our image worldwide is fucked.
does anyone not get that we militarily occupy their holy land? we got our fingers so deep in their pants. we declare war when it suits us, and we blast them with drones and gunships from afar - and, quite naturally, they see it as acts of cowardice.
and then we have headlines about killing the guy who made an underwear bomb that didn't work. whoopee, we killed the crotch-bomber. the world is safe. billions of dollars and a ruined world image, while we create 10 enemies for every one we kill. what a sick stupid joke.


My 21yo cousin is hiking through Afghanistan with his M4. You call that cowardice?

Every day he's sending pictures of the kids' school he's protecting, or the land mines he's removing. Those Taliban types, they've sure got honor on their side.

My dad has her beat. He put up a "Vote for Bush" (read my lips bush) on his balcony when Clinton was running...just to be silly. He got a visit from the secret service. They showed up as his door, and asked him some questions. One of which, was "Do you have plans to overthrow the United States Government?" to which his replay was *slightly long pause*..."Well, not yet!". As you can imagine, this response elicited a longer conversation. After they figured out he was just a silly old rabbler rouser, they left. There are always going to be these slight kind of run-ins when you have peoples who are free and also have an additional set of people tasked with keeping people "safe".

There was no harm done here either way in the end, the lady didn't get arrested for doing nothing wrong, and she wasn't overly rude beyond what an annoyed person should be for being questioned like this (it is scary, it is the FBI...on your doorstep, fucken scary). But I still find more problem with her being even questioned more than I have a problem with how she acted. Seemingly, the whole point of this contact wasn't for "investigation", but to either scare her into a recourse of action that she would regret, or to admit to something they could pin her with to arrest her. They questions were so vague, and the aim of their investigation so ambiguous, you can tell this was just them setting up land mines for her to crash into. She avoided them mostly, and perhaps not as nicely as they were setting them up for her to fall into, but someone being nice as they investigate you for crimes they want to charge you with doesn't necessarily put you in a good mood. It is like wishing someone a good day as you fire shots above their head. They were doing a hard job, yes. But was it a job worth doing, debatable. I think her response was in line with that debate. Not a hero, just a person doing the best they could.

The idiots at freedomain couldn't answer my questions and blocked me. I'm guest_14d3.

[20:20:52] Guest_14d3:
Had a question about anarchy. Any takers?
[20:21:42] Noesis to Guest_14d3:
I'm at least willing to listen.
[20:22:09] Guest_14d3:
How is an anarchy enacted or enforced?
[20:22:38] Guest_14d3:
What's to stop corporations from swooping in and taking control?
[20:22:41] aelephant:
Anarchy is enacted and enforced voluntarily.
[20:22:48] senorbuzco to Guest_14d3:
corporations
[20:22:51] Noesis to Guest_14d3:
So you haven't listened to Stefan's podcasts, or watched his videos, or read his books, then?
[20:22:54] aelephant:
De-centralization of authority.
[20:22:57] senorbuzco to Guest_14d3:
are legal fictions created and maintained by governments
[20:23:25] aelephant:
What's to stop you from punching me? I might punch you back.
[20:24:07] Guest_14d3:
Say a corporation comes and takes your property? Who is to stop them?
[20:24:23] senorbuzco to Guest_14d3:
who is to stop them now lol
[20:24:25] aelephant:
You could arm yourself and practice self-defense.
[20:24:34] Guest_14d3:
The state stops them now.
[20:24:39] aelephant:
You could hire out your self-defense to a protection agency.
[20:24:40] Stephen C to Guest_14d3:
my property would be covered with land mines
[20:24:51] senorbuzco to Guest_14d3:
corporations are created by governments
[20:24:52] Stephen C to Guest_14d3:
and preferably id like to have a gatling gun
[20:24:57] aelephant to Guest_14d3:
But who stops the government from taking your property?
[20:25:14] senorbuzco to aelephant:
IMMINENT DOMAIN
[20:25:22] Guest_14d3:
The corporation hires blackwater to demine your home and disable your weaponry. What do you do now?
[20:25:58] senorbuzco to Guest_14d3:
sooooo how is this different from right now?
[20:26:02] Stephen C to Guest_14d3:
where is the cooperation getting fiunding for this?
[20:26:16] Guest_14d3:
The state protects private property. Are you unaware of this?
[20:26:19] aelephant to Guest_14d3:
Why is the corporation willing to pay Blackwater so much to demine my home and disable my weaponry (at considerable threat to their own life and limb)?
[20:26:45] aelephant to Guest_14d3:
The state has no duty to protect. Are you unaware of this?
[20:26:51] Guest_14d3:
Also, if your contention is that your system offers no benefit over the current one, then why are you pushing for it?
Sam left this room.
[20:27:03] Stephen C to Guest_14d3:
you're basically saying "once you replace government with government, what happens?"
[20:27:15] Guest_14d3:
The state protects private property. To pretend otherwise is dishonest.
[20:27:28] aelephant to Guest_14d3:
That is not what the courts have ruled.
[20:27:33] senorbuzco to Guest_14d3:
ever heard of imminent domain
[20:27:35] senorbuzco to Guest_14d3:
or taxes
[20:27:42] Guest_14d3:
How is anarchy enforced. What is to stop the super rich from taking control?
[20:27:52] aelephant to Guest_14d3:
D.C.'s highest court [said] that it is a "fundamental principle of American law that a government and its agents are under no general duty to provide public services, such as police protection, to any individual citizen."
[20:27:55] senorbuzco to Guest_14d3:
the super rich USE THE STATE to take control
[20:27:57] Stephen C to Guest_14d3:
because they'd go broke
[20:28:30] aelephant to Guest_14d3:
http://www.firearmsandliberty.com/kasler-protection.html
[20:28:41] Guest_14d3:
True, the Rich use the state, but only because they are forced to. Without the state as a middle man, their power would be limitless.
[20:29:04] aelephant to Guest_14d3:
Not at all. The State makes the wealth of the rich much more powerful than it otherwise would be.
[20:29:28] Stephen C to Guest_14d3:
whoa, i never thought of it like that before
[20:29:29] aelephant to Guest_14d3:
In an anarchic society $100,000 buys you $100,000 worth of goods
[20:29:35] Stephen C to Guest_14d3:
i have to rethink this whole anarchy thing
[20:29:44] aelephant to Guest_14d3:
In a Statist society, $100,000 might buy you a politician
[20:29:48] Stephen C to Guest_14d3:
you're making great points
[20:29:51] aelephant to Guest_14d3:
and all of the power that comes along with that
[20:30:43] aelephant to Guest_14d3:
read this brah: praxeology.net/invisible-hands-and-incantations.pdf
[20:30:59] Guest_14d3:
Not at all? You have no idea how things would play out in an anarchy?
[20:31:27] Guest_14d3:
So, say Capitalcorp takes your land by force. What do you do?
[20:31:49] Stephen C to Guest_14d3:
whose paying capitalcorp money?
[20:31:56] Stephen C to Guest_14d3:
who's*
[20:31:59] Guest_14d3:
Customers.
[20:32:03] Stephen C to Guest_14d3:
why?
[20:32:10] aelephant to Guest_14d3:
Why would Capitalcorp take my land by force? I will kill any Capitalcorp agents who come onto my property with the intent of seizing it.
[20:32:36] Guest_14d3:
Capital corp has a private army and they murder you and your family and take your land. What happens then?
[20:32:46] Stephen C to Guest_14d3:
game over
[20:32:51] Guest_14d3:
Exactly.
[20:32:56] Stephen C to Guest_14d3:
they get to the final level
[20:33:16] Stephen C to Guest_14d3:
they beat the world
[20:33:42] Guest_14d3:
They beat the world, indeed.
[20:33:55] aelephant to Guest_14d3:
why would Capitalcorps army be willing to put their life and limb on the line to take my property?
[20:34:25] Guest_14d3:
Because it sits atop some kind of valuable natural resource.
[20:34:38] Guest_14d3:
You are dancing around the question.
[20:34:58] Guest_14d3:
Who is to stop them from taking your land and killing your family?
[20:35:10] senorbuzco to Guest_14d3:
remeber when i said that corporations are created and maintained by governments, and then you ignored that forever
[20:35:23] senorbuzco to Guest_14d3:
cuz i do
[20:35:28] Stephen C to Guest_14d3:
who's to stop me from taking your land right now and killing your family?
[20:35:37] Guest_14d3:
So, corporations would 'voluntarily' disband?
[20:35:43] Guest_14d3:
I don't get your point.
[20:35:55] senorbuzco to Guest_14d3:
WHY DO COPROATIONS EXSIST AND HAVE POWER
[20:35:56] Stephen C to Guest_14d3:
when companies dont provide a service they go broke
[20:35:57] senorbuzco to Guest_14d3:
THE FUCKING STATE
[20:36:11] senorbuzco to Guest_14d3:
THE STATE THAT TAXES ME
[20:36:17] senorbuzco to Guest_14d3:
AND GIVE IT TO CORPORATIONS
[20:36:19] senorbuzco to Guest_14d3:
AND THEIR BEHEST
Guest_1746 joined the room.
[20:37:04] Guest_14d3:
You don't think a large business could sustain itself without a government?
[20:37:07] Guest_14d3:
Why is that?
[20:37:29] Guest_14d3:
As long as they turn a profit, they can do as they please.
[20:37:32] Stephen C to Guest_14d3:
Do yu listen to the fdr podcasts?
Guest_69fa joined the room.
[20:37:37] Stephen C to Guest_14d3:
you*
[20:38:36] Guest_14d3:
What leads you to believe big business is not self sufficient?
[20:38:46] senorbuzco to Guest_14d3:
subsidies
[20:38:47] senorbuzco to Guest_14d3:
lol
[20:38:55] senorbuzco to Guest_14d3:
TAXES
[20:39:11] Guest_1746:
that doesnt make sense
[20:39:19] Guest_14d3:
How so?
[20:39:31] Stephen C to Guest_14d3:
Do you listen to the fdr podcasts?
[20:39:48] Guest_14d3:
Exxon Mobile makes billions. They have a product that we cannot live without. They don't need the government to survive.
[20:39:58] Guest_14d3:
Not interested in the podcasts.
Guest_0f56 left this room.
[20:40:15] Stephen C to Guest_14d3:
In that case, I'm blockin ya
[20:40:20] Stephen C to Guest_14d3:
Show ya how anarchy works
[20:40:21] Stephen C to Guest_14d3:
Bye
[20:40:29] Guest_14d3:
put your fingers in your ears.
[20:40:47] Guest_14d3:
Wouldn't want to question your pre conceived notions.

>> ^NetRunner:

As O'Donnell said on another night, eventually the police reports will give us the shot order, and allow us to do the grim accounting of finding out who would still be alive if Loughtner had been forced to settle for a 10-round clip instead of a 31-round one. At that point, we can debate about whether the freedom to have extended clips was really worth the lives of the people killed by the bottom twenty bullets Loughtner fired.


Well, if nothing else I doubt the US will crumble if clip sizes are limited. I just have a hard time blaming the tool.

Support banning grenades.
Don't support banning pistols.
Clips size is somewhere between those... just don't start digging up my land mines. ;-)

>> ^quantumushroom:

Missing: high-altitude surveillance blimps, Predator drones, electrified fencing, razor wire, land mines.
And a new sound-proof asylum for liberals.


Throw the conservatives of equal annoyance in there with em.

>> ^sadicious:

Why not just go pure evil and scatter land mines across the border?

Can't do that, might blow up some chick wanting to climb that big fence she heard about.