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Doubt - How Deniers Win

newtboy says...

Actually you said it's no where near time to panic. You also said the people of Kiribati are going to be washed away by a tsunami (but it never happened before in all the times they've been hit by tsunami) and not overwhelmed by sea rise (which IS what's happened to them).


You are just wrong about Texas producing more than California, we're number two in cattle production and ....
Food Facts
California has been the number one food and agricultural producer in the United States for more than 50 consecutive years.
More than half the nation's fruit, nuts, and vegetables come from here.
California is the nation's number one dairy state.
California's leading commodity is milk and cream. Grapes are second.
California's leading export crop is almonds.
Nationally, products exclusively grown (99% or more) in California include almonds, artichokes, dates, figs, kiwifruit, olives, persimmons, pistachios, prunes, raisins, clovers, and walnuts.
From 70 to 80% of all ripe olives are grown in California.
California is the nation's leading producer of strawberries, averaging 1.4 billion pounds of strawberries or 83% of the country's total fresh and frozen strawberry production. Approximately 12% of the crop is exported to Canada, Mexico, United Kingdom, Hong Kong and Japan primarily. The value of the California strawberry crop is approximately $700 million with related employment of more than 48,000 people.
California produces 25% of the nation's onions and 43% of the nation's green onions.
and if that's not enough to convince you ...
http://www.lavidalocavore.org/diary/2182/what-percent-of-food-comes-from-california

It is never 1 to 1 guns VS farmers in the situations you are talking about. The food gets stolen, sold, and eaten. It is not stolen and allowed to rot. If production were simple, ie not requiring extra water and fertilizer, everyone who's hungry would farm, and there would be 'bush taca' (wild food) to gather and eat. You can't make a living stealing from subsistence farmers, you go hungry between farms that way.

I call BS, the tech to replace oil and coal and gas exist today. You mentioned one. They are universally agreed on (by energy companies) who have made solar farms, nuclear, wind, etc.

Ahhhh. So now you see why it's time to panic...adaptation of the tech takes time, time that we don't have to waste. If it takes 50 years to stop adding greenhouse gasses, we need to see where that leaves your children's children. Adaptation of new tech is going to happen while we are restricting consumption...it's been that way for decades (see 'car mileage requirements') so it HAS happened in the past, and is happening today...without wars.

If no one panics and no one acts, that's where we'll be if we're lucky. Those figures you linked assume we will stop rising the level of CO2 we add daily and/or keep it below a certain level...an assumption I think is wrong and ignores reality.

Um, well, yeah, 78% less glacier doesn't mean 78% less runoff, it means far more than 78% less, because of glacial dams, evaporation, and upstream use it means probably NO runoff downstream. 22% of the already scarce water won't feed India. Period.
I think those numbers are small, and it's likely that there will be less than 22% of glaciers left in 100 years, but even those numbers leave billions without water or food. That's far worse than any group ever starved by 'men with guns'.

bcglorf said:

@newtboy
I think the people of Kiribati would disagree that it's not time to panic!
If you'd read my post I didn't claim the people of Kiribati weren't in a position to panic. I actually went further in agreeing with you, to the point that they should have been panicked a hundred years ago in 1914 already. The distinction being that what ever the climate does wasn't going to save them. 200 hundred years of cooling and sea level decline from 1914 would still have them on an island a few feet on average above sea level and still a disaster waiting to happen.

California alone, which produces over 1/4 of America's food,
Here we do have a difference of fact. I don't know what measure you've imagined up, but the cattle in texas alone are more than double the food produced in California. The corn and other crops in any number of prairie states to the same. You can't just invent numbers. Yields across crops have been increasing steadily year on year in North America for decades.

The violence is often CAUSED by the lack of food, making the 'men with guns' have a reason to steal and control food sources. If food were plentiful, it would be impossible for them to do so.
I'm sorry, read more history, you are just wrong on this. 10 guys with guns against 10 farmers with food and the farmers lose every time. The guys with guns eat for the year. The farmers maybe even are able to beg or slave for scraps that year. The next year maybe only 5 farmers bother to grow anything, and next harvest there are 15 guys with guns. Look at the Russian revolution and that's exactly the road that led to Stalin's mass starvations and lack of food. It's actually why I am a Canadian as my grandfather's family left their farm in Russia with the clothes on his back after the his neighbours farm was razed to the ground enough times.

The thugs SELL that food, so it doesn't just disappear
Food doesn't create itself as noted above. The cycle is less and less food as the thugs destroy all incentive to bother trying to grow something.

adopting new tech, even quick adoption, absolutely CAN be an economic boon
I agree. I hadn't realized that adoption of new tech was that simple. I was under the impression one also had to take the time to, you know, invent it. The existing technology for replacing oil and coal cost effectively doesn't exist yet. Electric cars and nuclear power are the closest thing. The market will adopt electric cars without us doing a thing. Switching from coal to nuclear though, even if universally agreed and adopted yesterday, would still take decades for a conversion. Those decades are enough that even if we got to zero emissions by then(~2050), the sea level and temperature at 2100 aren't going to look much if any different(by IPCC best estimates).
So I repeat, if you want meaningful emission reductions, you have no other option but restricting consumption across the globe. That hasn't been accomplished in the past without setting of wars, so I keep my vote as cure is worse than disease.

The 78% glacial mass loss was worst case if CO2 emissions are still accelerating in 2100. The mountains with the glaciers will still be bulking each winter and running off each summer, just to a 78% smaller size in the depth of summer. As in, absolutely not 78% less run off. And they are not 'my' numbers as you wish to refer, but the IPCC's numbers. Your effort to somehow leave question to their veracity is the very campaign of 'doubt' in the science the video is talking about.

O God, thy sea is so great and my boat is so small…

SFOGuy says...

Part of the problem with hydrofoils is exactly what you're seeing---once the waves reach the point where the bottom of the vessel is slapping the water each time the waves crest underneath it, a lot of stress and acceleration becomes inevitable---and you're not foiling anymore.

That's why, for the most part, hydrofoils end up being restricted to operations where the bodies of water they are operating on are partly in the lee of something else or sheltered (Lake Como; the Hong Kong/Macau run; Norwegian fiord patrol craft; Baltic sea, etc...) in my recollection...

Sniper007 said:

Reminds me to never ride in a ship without hydrofoils.

Now THIS is a protest... (no sound)

mentality says...

Yeah, not going to happen. Most mainland Chinese, even those who are studying in HK, have very different political outlook:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/hongkong/11131802/Analysis-Hong-Kongs-democracy-protests-pose-little-threat-to-China.html

Also, the scale of this protests is not unique, even for HK standards. Annual protests routinely drawing hundreds of thousands of people.

SevenFingers said:

I hope that can spread across all of China. But that's a big hope.

Different Country, Different Kind of McDonald's: Hong Kong

Different Country, Different Kind of McDonald's: Hong Kong

oritteropo says...

It is a few years since I was in Hong Kong, but I don't remember any of those dishes then!

What they did have though, which was really good, is iced lemon tea... not pre-mixed though, you get tea with lemon and ice. It's great

Other south east Asian countries are quite different too... McDonalds in Malaysia is all Helal, so no bacon in anything.

This Is How You Get People To Stop Texting While Driving

Chaucer says...

There actually is such a thing. I work for a large phone company and occasionally we'll send out group text msg's to certain locations (like a super bowl or some other event) letting people know about some important piece of information.

So I think this is legit. Now I havent experienced a hong kong movie crowd so I cannot say what the mannerisms are for their theater crowds, but 1) they could be expecting this to be the commericals before the movie and 2) they could have had their phones on vibrate. It doesnt look like the whole audience is looking at their phones. I'm sure they had enough cameras located around the theater to capture enough people that have bad phone mannerisms.

doogle said:

A "Location-based broadcaster"?

Bullshit. What store wouldn't want one of those things blasting at potential patrons walking by.

The Raid Director Gareth Evans Lists His Top 5 Action Scenes

Sarzy says...

Not hipster doucheism at all -- it's pretty much impossible to deny. I mean, the first Rush Hour was fun, as was Shanghai Noon, but the rest of Chan's Hollywood filmography has been pretty weak (I mean, I don't think anyone is going to come out of the woodwork to defend the Tuxedo). And even those two pretty good films pale in comparison to pretty much anything Chan made in Hong Kong in the '80s and early '90s.

ChaosEngine said:

It sounds like the ultimate hipster doucheism, but really Jackie Chans Hong Kong movies are just so much better than his western stuff. Police Story is just so funny, it really showcases Chans comedic timing.

The Raid Director Gareth Evans Lists His Top 5 Action Scenes

ChaosEngine says...

It sounds like the ultimate hipster doucheism, but really Jackie Chans Hong Kong movies are just so much better than his western stuff. Police Story is just so funny, it really showcases Chans comedic timing.

If you haven't seen it, you're really missing out. It's worth it for the scene where he has to answer 5 phones at once alone.

Also similiar to that last scene is the last fight in Fearless between Jet Li and Shido Nakamura (or at least his stunt double)

Are Hong Kong & Macau Countries? - CGP Grey

Team BlackSheep in HONG KONG #1

What Systema looks like once you've reached a certain level

chingalera says...

Well anyone with a clue should agree that there are higher and lower forms of martial arts.

Ch'i is NOT some fantastic mumbo-jumbo and anyone talking-shit about Wing Chun, Wushu, or Qigong has head-in-ass syndrome and has watched shitty Hong Kong action films and MMA-masturbatory matches to arrive at their conclusions, which are in fact, horseshit.

The HongKongiest piece of filmmaking you'll see this week

9547bis says...

Ironically, HK is quite a safe city, and firearms are fairly rare. People assume the contrary due to HK crime films being one of its main exports, but in fact they refer to a by-gone era (60s - 80s, when triads were active and cops corrupt).

Hong Kong might be the most free-market / right-wing / libertarian economy in the world, but its administration invested quite a lot in its police, and as a result not only are they quite respected by the locals (very few cases of abuse or corruption, and the majority of these reported by... police officers), but it's also become one of the safest large cities in the world*.
But please -- don't tell that guy roaming the comments with his rants on 'statists ruining everything', he would not understand.


*That does not involve an overreaching police state, like Singapore.

TheFreak said:

It's like the NRA's wet dream for America.

One person pulls a gun, to protect himself from the oppression of the fascist socialist government lacky police....and then the whole city goes Liam Neeson. I can't wait!

The HongKongiest piece of filmmaking you'll see this week

The HongKongiest piece of filmmaking you'll see this week

MOST REALISTIC FIGHT SCENE EVER



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