First, It’s 1.6% - 5% (and rising fast), not .5% bob.
https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2022/06/07/about-5-of-young-adults-in-the-u-s-say-their-gender-is-different-from-their-sex-assigned-at-birth/

Also, 100% - .5% = 99.5%, bob. Or are you pretending only 1% balks at this idea? Considering your math skills, it’s impossible to know.

If so, why should the 99% capitulate to the 1% of intolerant assholes that insist everyone must eat pizza?

If ther are 100 people going out to eat together daily and 5 are deathly allergic to cheese, are you going to insist you prefer pizza so they should be excluded from the population because you don’t feel like a burger right now so everyone MUST eat pizza, even though the restaurant serves both?

No one is trying to make you eat the burger, they only want you to admit burgers are on the menu and that everyone has the right to choose their own meal, you don’t get to choose for them, nor do you get to deny there’s more than one choice nor enforce that insane denial.

Trans people self determining their gender in no way forces you to do the same thing. Such a dumb argument, Bob. It’s the old Con. argument…“You having a choice infringes on my rights to force my choices on you.”.

A person of the female gender.
Jesus you’re stupid.

Dictionary.com - “ an adult female human being”

🤦‍♂️

You know that’s not true. Democrats and independents have 48 seats, not 60(the number needed to pass any law now). Manchin and Senema are Republicans, not Democrats, and vote as such. That means there’s no chance of getting anything meaningful passed with the Republican platform being “don’t let the democrats get anything done”.

Solution to…what? Answer to….what? You can’t even form a cogent accusation.

What are utter lies and bs? Your attempts to attack Democrats?

Who says “trans community….”… what? Which is fine …how? Are you ok? Did you smoke crack recently? Meth?

You say YES to indoctrination of everyone with born again MAGA evangelical Christian doctrines and MAGA insanity, you liar. You people want prayers in preschools, bibles in schools, bans on non binary genders, bans on discussing any non “pure” monogamous heterosexual sexuality, bans on interracial relationships, and probably a ban on any mention of any other religion through high school….and you think that’s not indoctrination.

Right, because screaming insane ridiculousness at full rant like a raving crackhead (sometimes WITH a raving crackhead!) is what makes a leader. 🤦‍♂️
Pete’s been in leadership positions repeatedly…including as an officer in Afghanistan.
Now Trump, he’s never led anything that didn’t fall apart or go bankrupt or get closed for fraud while he led it….and is a blatant draft dodger.

Yelling isn’t leading. Dividing isn’t leading. Throwing tantrums isn’t leading. Attempting coups isn’t leading.

They are real women, no matter how you wish otherwise.
Are men that take testosterone supplements not real males? Same for women taking estrogen, not real females? Women who’ve had a hysterectomy? Men who had penectomies or testicular removal?
Is this a “real woman” who should compete against women? https://www.espn.com/boxing/story/_/id/31662608/boxer-patricio-manuel-transgender-pioneer-looking-next-fight

What expertise in the fields of gender vs sex vs sexual orientation do you boast to contradict the actual experts with careers in those subjects?
A:None, you’re an alleged maintenance/service tech with embarrassing language skills, and apparently a total lack of scientific knowledge.

Where’s your evidence of that “disadvantage “? Where are the rest of the 2% of athletes that are top of their sport and trans? You make the claim, prove it (one example does not prove anything). Guess you failed math too.

That could be true if your loopy idea that men are pretending to be women to get an advantage in sports were in any way true, but it’s pure unadulterated nonsense.
Trans women must go through years of hormone therapy; supplements, hormone blockers, sometimes even surgery to be able to compete. In many leagues they must never go through male puberty. They cannot, as you clearly think is the norm, just put on a woman’s swimsuit and compete with women, then whip their dicks out after competition and go back to being macho men. Your insistence on keeping your head firmly encased in your lower intestine, in the dark, listening to yourself echo through your own fart chamber is what lets you believe such utterly ridiculous nonsense.

I think it’s abundantly clear to everyone which of us lives in an echo chamber of lies and nonsense and which of us thinks for themselves, and equally clear which prefers the light of knowledge and fact and which sticks to their dark cave of ignorance and misinformed opinion.

Er mer gerd…. ROTFLMFAHS!!! Mr cranial rectosis projects so freaking hard, yo.

You must love the 25% property tax increase he just levied on Orange county as retribution for Disney not supporting his “no gender in school” idiocy. The biggest property tax hike in history as a punishment for not falling in line….a tax hike that, thanks to Trump, is no longer deductible on federal taxes.

No sympathy for Disney, they gave Trump over $10 million. Reap what you sow…it’s going to make any additions they planned for Disney World all but impossible to permit, meaning Disney will no longer be investing in Florida, won’t be hiring contractors, buying construction supplies, won’t be paying for services like good roads, police, firemen, street lights, etc, hurting Florida more than the lost tax money….but for residents of Orlando this politically motivated attack is going to be extremely costly and will end the level of services provided by Disney until now….I think it’s over $160 million a year in bills they just transferred to their citizens over sour grapes…or as you say, doing a fair job.

Once again…..Biggest property tax hike ever, and an end to Disney construction, for purely political spiteful motives with absolutely no gains to the state, the county, residents, or anyone.

🤦‍♂️

Teacher here. It's made-up-nonsense. I don't give a shit what gender or sexual orientation a kid is and im CERTAINLY not going to try to convince anyone to change anything about themselves.

That said, I'm going to acknowledge that gay/trans people exist in authorship and literature as it arises. You can't read someone like Whitman (Leaves of Grass, arguably America's greatest poet) and not come across references to sexuality either implicit or explicit. https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems/45472/i-sing-the-body-electric

It becomes relevant in passages like this:

5
This is the female form,
A divine nimbus exhales from it from head to foot,
It attracts with fierce undeniable attraction,
I am drawn by its breath as if I were no more than a helpless vapor, all falls aside but myself and it,
Books, art, religion, time, the visible and solid earth, and what was expected of heaven or fear’d of hell, are now consumed,
Mad filaments, ungovernable shoots play out of it, the response likewise ungovernable,
Hair, bosom, hips, bend of legs, negligent falling hands all diffused, mine too diffused,
Ebb stung by the flow and flow stung by the ebb, love-flesh swelling and deliciously aching,
Limitless limpid jets of love hot and enormous, quivering jelly of love, white-blow and delirious juice,
Bridegroom night of love working surely and softly into the prostrate dawn,
Undulating into the willing and yielding day,
Lost in the cleave of the clasping and sweet-flesh’d day.

----------------------------------
Maybe a conversation like:

"'Love flesh swelling' like he's in love with some woman and they...he...?"

"Probably not, he didn't have any serious female relationships as far as I am aware."

"But the title is 'The female form'"

"Well, it's possible, but it's not likely the case that he was talking about himself being in love with a woman. This poem is in the text but he wrote many other pieces about he-himself falling into and out of love with various men and we have letters documenting those relationships with his male significant others. Although, I'm not sure what to call them because gay marriage would have been illegal at the time. He's likely writing the poem in a way where he appreciates the female form and sees men who are drawn to it like the way I appreciate watching bees act obsessively driven to the middle of flowers. I like watching Bees in action, but that doesn't mean I'm going all pollen crazy, still I appreciate it for what it is."
-------------------

This is an example of how discussion of sexuality would come up in my classroom as I imagine it. Note how I'm not trying to convince the kid I'm talking to to turn gay like it's a big game of rainbow-red-rover or something. Nevertheless, knowing the author's sexual preference in this instance informs our understanding of the piece.


My own personal theory?
The people railing against things like this are the same shitheads that can't be bothered to read ANYTHING and instead giggle and guffaw at "hurhurhurhur he hadd'a boner" where I get to live an early stage of Idocracy.

Also, I agree that the "funky stuff" shouldn't be just avoided altogether. For goodness sake, just let teachers have the difficult conversation that everyone is avoiding. Reminds me of when Peggy Hill was struggling to say "Penis" when she was assigned sex ed.

It’s almost like you forgot that every congressperson charged with child trafficking is a Republican, every one charged with pedophilia a Republican, every one that knowingly covered for years of forced sexual abuse of children a Republican. Everyone trying to pass laws making it legal for adults to marry 9 year old children and have sex with them is a Republican. Every person claiming their political colleagues have wild drug fueled orgies is a Republican.
🤦‍♂️
Every one filmed lusting after 10 year olds and cat calling them in public is a Republican. Every one who said the thing they have most in common with their young daughter is “sex” is a Republican. Every one that bragged about trying to buy their way into their friends wife’s pants repeatedly is a Republican. Everyone we know that left their pregnant wives to sleep with porn stars without protection is a Republican. Every one that hosted private parties for Epstein, some they attended with no other adults allowed was a Republican.
🤦‍♂️ 🤦‍♂️
The way you people project this nonsense makes me believe that somewhere out there is a pizza place with a basement where your elected officials rape, murder, and eat very small children. It sounded completely insane when the accusations were made, but you people ARE completely insane AND guilty of EVERY charge you morons lob at Democrats.

Democrats, on the other hand, are never brought up on child rape and sex trafficking charges, never have photos come out proving their debauchery, do not have a party platform based entirely on scapegoating and hating huge groups based on skin color, nationality, sexual preference, gender, etc….all protected classes under the constitution btw.
Democrats also don’t try to overthrow democracy because they lost an election and can’t accept it.
Democrats also don’t legislate based on frauds like Desantis, don’t put out insane lies about their opponents, accusing them of child molestation without evidence, certainly not just as a fund raising plot. They don’t set up straw men like CRT to give their base something to be outraged about despite it being fantasy. They don’t create a big lie that the election they ran was fraught with fraud (with absolutely zero evidence besides the frauds they committed themselves).

You really should try looking in a mirror sometimes. If you think you hate Democrats over these false charges, you are going to really hate yourself. Party of debauchery….if you really believe that’s the Democratic Party and not Republicans, you had a clinical break from reality and need professional help before you hurt yourself or others.

You are so delusional you could be committed if we only knew your real name.

Edit: I suppose I should thank you for being such a ridiculous blowhard that always buys into the Republican lies, without you I would have no idea what nonsense needs debunking. You couldn’t be a better straight man even if your name was Laurel.

I had to quit discussing things like this in private thanks to bob (and his sock puppets). I refuse now because he likes to be a completely different person in private, admitting things he would never admit in public conversation, admitting he’s lying, that Trump is an awful human being, etc. he ruined it.
Sorry…replying publicly.

If you can’t/won’t answer one simple question, there’s no point. I’m sick of answering all of yours and having you dodge mine….especially sick of it since you refuse to even acknowledge my answers and pretend I didn’t give you a straight answer. I refused to answer one red herring, biased, loaded, off topic question because I disagreed wholeheartedly with its premise, but answered every other you asked.
I feel like you’re wasting my time here..

I must point out, the question you continue to ignore trumps every question you asked….how can you deny the rights of legal women to compete in publicly funded contests as women? It’s their constitutional right to not be discriminated against based on gender. Case closed. Nothing overrides that legality.

I answered your question 3 times now. If you can’t understand, why keep trying? One last time, but I’m out. I’m not going to answer you without the same consideration.

There is no evidence that xx vs xy denotes one automatically has an advantage based on just chromosomal arrangements. None.

Women CAN be stronger, faster, better than men in most arenas, and vice versa. Genetic gender may indicate a likelihood random men will be stronger than random women, it alone does not dictate biological differences that can/will be advantageous in athletics. Hormone levels, hormone therapy, supplements, mental fortitude, training, environment, opportunities, dna, rna, diet, HGH, etc can all go into creating (or erasing) those possible physical “advantages” you reference, not just chromosomal arrangements. Since that’s true, discrimination based on chromosomal arrangements is not just wrong and illegal, it’s ignorant and evil.

I’ve been over that 3 times, now 4. I’ve given specific examples. What’s the issue in comprehension? Are you even reading? What?!

I’m bored of this. We won’t get anywhere with this one sided discussion where only one of us answers questions or pays attention to the answers. Fuggetaboutit. This isn’t a discussion

Have a nice day. Bye.

Right, then you go on to argue that they have good reason to exclude these people. Pretty much negated your first statement….or indicates that you agree with denying them rights, but not with using that as a political wedge (on either side?), possibly because it paints those denying others rights as evil assholes that would deny rights over ignorant and false equivalencies. Hard to tell since you won’t answer any questions.

If you believe that, why have you spent an entire day trying to get me to admit women couldn’t ever compete fairly with trans women? Because you have done exactly that.

Your position, that genetic male athletes are always better athletes than genetic women athletes …and trans women are the same as genetic males…is exactly the false and ignorant position and argument used to deny trans people their rights to participate. It’s just like you were using the old trope that black people aren’t actually humans so often used to deny them rights and opportunities….then claiming that just because you argue that doesn’t mean you think they should be denied opportunities. WHAT?!

Finally you admit males aren’t always better athletes. If genetic women can be better, there’s no reason to deny trans women their rights at all. Ms Macho Man is hyperbole, not reality. Men can’t put on a dress and claim trans status.

Pointing to two athletes that are excelling as proof that trans women will crush genetic women if allowed to compete together, to say trans women always have advantages, is also a red herring. That’s the “evidence” anti trans people use to prove that they can’t fairly compete. You may not have done that exactly, but you seem to use the same positions people who do say that use to imply it.

Really? And describe again those standards of fairness….because what I read was a ridiculous conflation between allowing trans people to compete and removing any gender separation….you pretended that’s the same thing.

Yes, because pretending trans women are the same as athletic men is hateful, malicious, and denying trans women’s rights to exist as women.

When I hear/read someone trying to give excuses for denying trans people their rights, I see a villian. How could you not?

Discussion? LMFAHS!!
Excuse me….when did you answer ANY of MY questions? You decry being called a villain, but in what way did you explain how your position isn’t dehumanizing, dismissive, and aimed at denying one group of people their right to participate in public events based on assumption and ignorance? Absolutely none. You moaned that I didn’t answer one of your questions the way you expected….but cannot answer any of mine. Try it, you might learn something.

ONE LAST TIME…HOW DO YOU EXCUSE DENYING TRANS PEOPLE THEIR RIGHT TO PARTICIPATE IN PUBLICLY FUNDED SPORTS? If you don’t support that, you have certainly hidden that fact with all your arguments supporting doing that, so you might want to ANSWER THE QUESTION…..unless you just love to argue, then we’re done.

You got a very straight answer, you just didn’t like it. Ironic to claim something you don’t like doesn’t exist while arguing that something that doesn’t exist bothers you.

I’ll try again, but I can only explain it to you, I can’t understand it for you. Women can outperform men, so clearly there’s more to it than just gender, more than just the shape of your 23/24th chromosome. If there wasn’t, the worst man would always outperform the best woman. That being the case, discriminating based on gender is not just wrong, it’s illegal. That goes for trans people too, they aren’t excluded from having rights just because you seem to want it that way.

I note there’s no answer at all about excluding a group of citizens from publicly funded events. Don’t like that question I guess. No answer for it, I guess. Straight or otherwise. Last try to get anything resembling a answer at all.

Absolutely a blatant Red herring. I refuse to cooperate with your ridiculous loaded cherry picked false premise fantasy.
Try asking a realistic question on point instead of a loaded, ridiculous fantasy hypothetical you think makes your point. Your question implies that you believe trans women are just ordinary men.

If we pick the 100m sprint and had the two categories and trans people were allowed to compete with their current gender (with specific requirements, like they are), would you expect the trans athletes to always dominate?
Same question, but 50k race.

If so, why?
If so, explain why that hasn’t happened even though they’ve been competing in the Olympics under those rules for near 20 years now.
If not, what’s your point? I think I know, your point is that trans women are men, an ignorant, inflammatory, intentional insult to them and what they go through to be comfortable in their own bodies.
No surprise since you support just excluding them because you assume wrongly that a trans woman is a man in a dress. It’s ignorance and intolerance dancing together in your mind, making false assumptions and attempting to deny rights to others based on them. I might note, sexual orientation and gender are two categories that in America we are barred from using to discriminate against someone. I must assume you aren’t American, so what’s your dog in this fight? Just trans hatred?

Now explain why trans kids shouldn’t be allowed to compete in school competitions. Last try to get an answer.

Now explain how this is different from the racist arguments for excluding blacks from sports.

Edit: now explain why women like these need protection from other women….

@newtboy,

Last try to get anything resembling a straight answer.

If we pick specifically the 100m race as an event: If the olympics had but a single open category to all sex and genders, do you expect to see biologically female competitors ever making it into qualifying and competition?

If you are talking policies that govern individuals, average is meaningless, you need to include the outliers. What I really said was, on average it’s somewhat true a bit more than half the time….with many exceptions, so incredibly far from a rule…far from “I can agree”.

You said “ Are you saying you do not believe that people who are biologically male(By which I mean XY) have an advantage in athletics over people who are biologically female(by which I mean XX)?”.
I pointed to one instance where (I assume) chromosomal males do not have an advantage over a chromosomal female in an athletic field….just an example of why I don’t believe it’s always true that people who are biologically male(By which I mean XY) have an advantage in athletics over people who are biologically female(by which I mean XX)..one you can’t contradict.

People are never equally gifted or talented, not even with themselves yesterday or tomorrow. I find the premise faulty.

Appears to, so far, in most but not all categories.
In many, the difference is minimal and an exceptional female will surpass males one day in most. Top ranked Kenyan woman already routinely beat top ranked non Kenyan males in long distance running, for one example.

I won’t extrapolate from a temporary skewed position, it leads to ridiculous conclusions….so I won’t be able to agree.
I can agree people believe that.

It’s not just sexual biology. It has nothing to do with genitals. It’s hormones, dna, rna, mental toughness, upbringing, training, health, environment, opportunity, etc. if someone born a woman wants to compete with men, and your position is correct, what’s the harm? If a trans woman, born male but never going through male puberty or taking estrogen and hormone blockers to reverse the effects wants to compete against women, what proof do you have to show any advantage? Two athletes excelling? Out of how many?

Now how expert are you in this field? Expert enough to define the exact point where each person has an advantage vs a disadvantage? I doubt it. But you think it’s fine to deny them the right to participate based on your ignorant assumptions. Do you accept such ignorant, biased assumptions to determine what you may do, how much you may participate in public events? I doubt you would accept it for a second. Think about that.

You want to equate them to non trans people while trying to prove how they’re so different. Pick a lane please.

No matter what your opinion, denying a citizen a chance to compete in public sports is totally unAmerican. I notice how you ignore that, as if to concede it under your breath. It doesn’t go unnoticed that you can’t address that. It IS the point.

Edit : as to the olympics, they have allowed trans gender athletes since 2004. If trans women are really men, why haven’t those records become equal between men and women?

@newtboy,

1. Given how few people are affected, I'd love to see way less coverage of trans-sports as a wedge issue to rally political bases

2. Failing that, isn't it clearly 100% common sense that the Men's and Women's sports divisions are NOT divisions applied based upon gender but instead upon biological sex, and as such should always have been a non-issue.

3. I really can't see the issue, if it must be raised, as anything other than a request for special exemptions to be made. Existing competitive sports are divided based on biological sex and most have requirements around usage of drugs, hormones and other performance enhancing substances. We have existing and established testing for both the biological sex and PED requirements. Applying those equally to everyone IS equality.

/s There, now the debates all settled /s

I guess they realized that their previous idea, forcing athletes to compete in their birth gender categories, leads to men like this …



…competing with women, so they decided the right thing to do is just remove all rights to compete if you aren’t sis gender. Apparently all trans athletes are just plain better than non trans athletes.

What outstanding Americans.

Here's an example that if the world operated the way Bob suggested I think this trans athlete would demolish the ladies if forced to play in the league for the gender on their birth certificate.

https://abcnews.go.com/Business/transgender-boxer-face-everlast/story?id=65953232

So what he's really tryin to say is that trans athletes shouldn't be allowed to compete at all because they are unworthy of any kind of human dignity.


He's also assuming that testosterone = winning
Thanks Billie Jean King https://youtu.be/qqB3yi8MVbQ?t=7867