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Chicago Cop Abandons Woman Being Threatened With A Gun

newtboy says...

You have to make a Hell of a lot of assumptions to come to that conclusion. 1) that he has no camera. 2) that the victim/witness wouldn't be believed. 3) that physical evidence wouldn't prove it was a good shooting. 4) that there weren't other cameras.
It's possible, but not the most likely outcome. Abandoning a black woman leaving her to be murdered on camera is FAR more likely to spark riots and accusations that he would have stayed and protected a white woman.

Edit:police scanner traffic does provide some information. A dispatcher indicates that a man “pointed the gun at (a) mother and (a) father multiple times” and was in the stairwell when police were called.
It should not have been a surprise when the responding officer encountered a man with a gun.

3 people are killed by police every single day. There aren't riots every single day over it. It's not an honest position to claim every time a black man is shot by police it's cause for a riot. That's total nonsense intended to delegitimize a legitimate movement against inappropriate police violence...that's not ALL police violence. Sometimes police violence is necessary...just not >half the times it's used, and usually not to the extent (like shooting someone 142 times).

There's a middle ground between swat teams going in shooting over a nonviolent mental health call and a cop abandoning a victim to run like a coward from an armed attacker.

Maybe if he shot, but not to kill, outcomes could be better....or tried non lethal methods first. Maybe if he followed policy and didn't go to a domestic violence call alone. The one thing certain to not work is turning his back (probably making his vest useless) and running away from the victim and armed attacker. That put him at the most danger of being shot in the back and her being murdered, and it violated his oath, and it indicates black victims won't be protected.

olyar15 said:

But did he know he was on camera? Did he have a bodycam? The only reason the suspect was seen on camera holding a gun was because the cop backed away. If he had drawn his gun and fired the moment he saw the suspect holding the gun, it wouldn't have been caught on that camera because the suspect was still in the room. Then you would have a situation of only eyewitness testimony. And you would have riots.

Delaware State Trooper Pulls Gun on Black Man For Speeding

Sniper007 says...

Two studies have found that at least 40% of police officer families experience domestic violence, in contrast to 10% of families in the general population.

This means that even non-abusing good cops have (on average) a group of friends and coworkers comprised of 40%+ abusers in the home. 2 out of every 5. These are friends and coworkers that they would take a bullet for and defend with perjury if need be. These are the good cops.

But you know, I don't blame them? The role itself is insane. Why should humanity have the right to put all of our collective violent, physical, criminal, and tragic life events onto the shoulders of one small group of people? It's not sustainable. And it shows in the lives of those who attempt to assume that role.

Well, I guess we could always blame them for being cops. I mean, there are many other, much more effective ways to improve a culture and impact positive change. If that was their motivation for becoming a cop. That would be a positive take-away: Come up with alternate work programs to help cops stop being cops.

w1ndex (Member Profile)

New Rule: Distinction Deniers

criticalthud says...

i was an attorney for victims of domestic violence for a couple years under a federal grant. fun job. eye-opening for sure.

Yeah there's a pretty broad range of shit out there, and yeah the details often dictate whether ur a just a bro-tard or whether ur going to jail for a long time.

What Happens When A Woman Abuses A Man In Public?

Asmo says...

No, not take Weinstein for example, that is an entirely different case and it undermines your position to use such an obvious straw man.

Society promotes the concept that men are violent, women are not. Any man that uses physical violence on a women is evil and if a woman raises a hand to a man and he strikes her in defense, he would still be the one that had to explain himself. Look at the Duluth model re: domestic violence sometime to see how truly baked in the myth that men are the perps and women are the vics...

https://medium.com/iron-ladies/men-are-still-pigs-the-politicization-of-domestic-violence-2cfa7488c204 (written by a woman for noting)

Particularly salient.

[i]It’s clear to me that despite the fact the Duluth Model has proven to be worthless, programs still adhere to the same principles. Men are still the automatic perpetrators, women are always victims. What’s worse is the men under attack by violent wives have no way of protecting themselves. Their right to self-defense in domestic violence cases has been cancelled.[/i]

I'm all for acknowledging that differences between the sexes is an absolutely real thing, but the long and the short of it is that women are basically allowed to assault men almost without consequences, but in the reverse situation the man would (justifiably) have the book thrown at him. And while men do have the physical advantage (although not always), they are hamstrung by society. The mere threat of a rape accusation (or far worse, the accusation that the husband has been abusing the kids) would silence most men in a heartbeat because they understand that the police, the judge, the social workers will believe the woman first.

Violence is wrong as is giving women a free pass because they rolled vagina in the game of life.

AeroMechanical said:

Fair enough, but these are separate issues, I agree with the premise of the video. But, while it would be a mistake to assume that men cannot be victims of abuse, it would also be a mistake to assume general equivalency. Take, Weinstein for example. Once he'd isolated his victims, they had to handle their situation with the added fear that he may physically overpower and rape them. With the gender roles reversed, the situation would in most cases not be the same. There is an extra dimension that needs to be considered resulting from the biological fact that men are bigger and stronger than women. I believe you do need to consider gender, even though it would be nice if you didn't.

What Happens When A Woman Abuses A Man In Public?

Digitalfiend says...

I get what you're trying to say but you don't really have to be bigger to abuse someone. You're ignoring the fact that women are typically given the benefit of the doubt in domestic violence situations because of that sort of thinking. Abusive women can and do use that fact to their advantage; a man can feel powerless to defend himself for any number of reasons: fear of mob-justice, criminal charges, loss of job, financial ruin, etc.

It's interesting that the people they interviewed after the roles were reversed felt that the man must have done something to piss off the woman and that somehow justified her behaviour.

AeroMechanical said:

There is an extra dimension that needs to be considered resulting from the biological fact that men are bigger and stronger than women. I believe you do need to consider gender, even though it would be nice if you didn't.

CNN: Guns In Japan

SDGundamX says...

Uhhh... you are aware of the atrocities Japanese soldiers committed less than a century ago during WWII, right? And I think you're confusing psychopaths (who may or may not be violent) with those suffering from a psychosis (a complete mental break with reality).

Either way, mental illness is a huge problem in Japan and in fact treatment of mental illness is one area where their socialized medicine is sorely lacking behind other countries.

I don't know of any credible studies that say that mental illness rates are lower in Japan than in other developed countries, but I do know that the overwhelming majority of crimes in pretty much any country are actually committed by people who are legally sane.

So, despite what you may believe, "genetic" predisposition is an unlikely factor in explaining Japan's crime rate. Besides which, criminologists agree that whatever role genetics plays in people becoming criminals it isn't nearly the most important factor and is dwarfed by environmental factors (see this for a scholarly article on the topic and <a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-29760212>this for a popular news article).

You're trying to paint this as two equal parts of the recipe for crime when in reality it's more like "add two cups of environmental and a dash of genetics/personality/whatever."

Crime does happen here. The kinds of stuff I hear about on a daily basis in the news: crimes of desperation (homeless guy stealing to survive), thrill-seeking crimes (stealing a bike because you're young and stupid and the chances of getting caught are pretty low), crimes of passion (i.e. domestic violence, drunken bar fights, etc.), organized crime (i.e. yakuza), and the big one--sexual assault.

Sexual assault is so prevalent in Japan that there are actual signs warning women of areas where they are likely to be groped or have men expose themselves. There are train cars for women only so they don't have to get groped on the way to work or school. I mean, how fucked up is that?

So it isn't all rainbows and unicorns over here. Crime happens, and unfortunately is much more likely to happen to you if you're a woman. Still, even accounting for that the crime rates here are ridiculously low, for the reasons I stated above.

jwray said:

@SDGundamX those cultural factors are all true, and none of it contradicts my point. Both culture and inborn personality traits play a role. A place where murderers have been routinely caught and removed from the gene pool for centuries is going to be a place with a lot less genes for psychopathy. Not so much in a frontier society without effective law enforcement for much of its history, like the US. The US isn't the worst in this respect, but it hasn't been civilized for nearly as long as Western Europe or Japan, and this is a source of both genetic and cultural differences.

Ashland Cops Use Taser On Restrained 18 Year Old

eric3579 says...

Just from a quick goggle search. First thing i came across, and that is all you will get as it's already better then someone saying something is fact without the willingness to back it up. Although i assume you got that stat somewhere and would be interested to see where from.

"As the National Center for Women and Policing noted in a heavily footnoted information sheet, "Two studies have found that at least 40 percent of police officer families experience domestic violence, in contrast to 10 percent of families in the general population. A third study of older and more experienced officers found a rate of 24 percent, indicating that domestic violence is two to four times more common among police families than American families in general." "

The info sheet they reference http://womenandpolicing.com/violenceFS.asp#notes

C-note said:

The fact that the spousal abuse rate for cops is up to 15 times higher than among the general public is just the tip of the iceberg.

An American-Muslim comedian on being typecast as a terrorist

SDGundamX says...

@gorillaman

It's almost as if some countries have different cultural values than the United States. For example:

Japan:
--Distributing pornography is illegal and punishable by up to two years in prison and a $25,000 fine (under Article 175 of the Penal Code, which defines pornography as showing the naughty parts of a man or woman, hence mosaics on all Japanese porn)
--Domestic violence and rape laws are often unenforceable
--LGBT community has almost no legal recourse in the face of discrimination of virtually any kind (housing, work, banking, etc.)

America itself has its share of bat-shit insane laws (from the rest of the world's perspective at least) such as legalized death penalty, and "well-intentioned" Christians are still fighting to deny gay people the right to marry in court at this very moment.

Should we come to the conclusion that Americans and Japanese people are "bad people" because these laws exist? Or maybe, as Ahmed Ahmed suggested, we should stop lumping huge groups of people (in the case of Muslims literally millions of people from an extremely culturally diverse group of countries) together and assuming they're all alike and believe exactly the same things?

An American-Muslim comedian on being typecast as a terrorist

gorillaman says...

Dubai & the UAE:
Shari'a
Torture
Slavery
Homosexuals, adulterers and apostates can be stoned to death.
Abortion, blasphemy, public displays of affection, premarital sex, all illegal and punishable by flogging.
Domestic violence against women is legal.

Qatar:
Shari'a
Sodomy, extramarital sex, alcohol consumption, blasphemy, apostasy, proselytism all illegal and punishable variously by flogging or imprisonment.

Kuwait:
Blasphemy, homosexuality, transgenderism, public displays of affection, eating or drinking in public during ramadan, alcohol, pornography and 'sending immoral messages' are all illegal.
Domestic violence and marital rape is legal.

Indonesia:
Islamist violence against religious minorities is widespread.
Muslims are pushing hard to criminalise homosexuality.
Female applicants to the military and police are subjected to 'virginity tests'.
Shari'a in Aceh province includes the flogging of homosexuals among its atrocities.

Tunisia:
Homosexuality and blasphemy are illegal.
Persecution of the LGBT by both government and private groups is common and increasing.

Mali:
~90% prevalence of FGM
Half the country under islamist control, with all the oppression, murder, torture and rape that implies.

There is NO "reason" to hit a woman? - Bill Burr

ChaosEngine says...

The problem is outcome.

Yes, domestic violence is often perpetrated by women. The difference is that it doesn't usually result in serious injury to the man.

Obviously, anyone assaulting anyone is wrong. But given that males abusing women results in much more serious injury, it's clearly the greater problem.

newtboy said:

Self defense is a perfect reason to hit anyone, regardless of gender. There's no reasonable excuse to hit someone first (unless you're boxing).

According to a Harvard study, 70% of one sided domestic abuse is perpetrated BY women, not against women. When both sides participate, it's about 50/50.
http://newscastmedia.com/domestic-violence.htm

It seems that teaching women to not hit is ignored in favor of teaching men to not hit.

There is NO "reason" to hit a woman? - Bill Burr

newtboy says...

Self defense is a perfect reason to hit anyone, regardless of gender. There's no reasonable excuse to hit someone first (unless you're boxing).

According to a Harvard study, 70% of one sided domestic abuse is perpetrated BY women, not against women. When both sides participate, it's about 50/50.
http://newscastmedia.com/domestic-violence.htm

It seems that teaching women to not hit is ignored in favor of teaching men to not hit.

Rashida Jones coaches Stephen on how to be a Feminist

newtboy says...

No, if you believe in and work for gender equality FOR WOMEN, you're a feminist.
Those who believe in gender equality for all are called egalitarians.

Why 'feminism' is historically 'feminism' is because it works to secure the rights of women. Period. The feminist movement has never, as far as I know, worked against unequal rights for women when the inequality benefits women...or said another way, worked for equality FOR men.

It was not ONLY women at the start, only mostly women, and you disrespect and dismiss the contributions of all those men who worked against their own self interests to secure equal rights for you. How rude and ungrateful....I bet you would be upset if women's contributions to men's issues were dismissed like that.
No, men have not done the bulk of the work, but they have been invaluable in getting action many, many times. Calling it feminism and acting like it's only by women totally 'disacknowledges' all those self sacrificing men....which is why I have a problem. If we and our votes, money, and efforts don't count and are completely unapreciated, then buh-bye.
Again, no one is even suggesting renaming the entire movement, I suggested that people WHO THINK LIKE ME might start or join another that's more inclusive from the start. If you don't think like me, it's not about you, and even if you do, it's not a command, it's barely a suggestion.

If you focus solely on those with the MOST disadvantages, you only swing the pendulum of unfairness the other direction in a never ending struggle back and forth. Only by focusing on equality for all can you come to the right solutions to inequalities.

(Expletive deleted)! Men and whites ABSOLUTELY need equal rights. Yes, in MOST cases men and whites have advantages, not all by far like you said, still today a crackhead mother is more likely to get full custody than a fully employed stand up father...that is not the ONLY case where women are given advantages men aren't....another off the top of my head, domestic violence, men will ALWAYS be the one thought to be the aggressor without clear evidence to the contrary, but that's simply false, and leaves many abused men victimized twice. Same for sexual abuse/rape. Men get zero support if they've been raped, only ridicule and disbelief. Take each situation individually, or you'll continue to make that insulting, repulsive, self serving mistake that perpetuates inequality and pits men against women.

Equal child custody rights....yes, good example....how has the feminist movement worked to secure that....for men? If the imbalance is in their favor, that's FINE with feminists. I disagree strongly, and I won't be considering myself one anymore.

FlowersInHisHair said:

Don't overreact. If you believe in gender equality, you are a feminist.

As has been pointed out, and as you acknowledge, you were not there at the start of feminism. Why feminism is feminism is because the fight for gender equality was not initiated by men, nor has the bulk of the work been done by men. Calling it anything but feminism disacknowledges that women are the prime movers here. The fight for gender equality is the fight, spearheaded by women, to bring women's rights up to meet men's existing privilege level. It's feminism. You get credit for being part of the movement, but that's not enough reason to rename that movement, and I can't understand that argument.

Equality for all is the goal, yes. But to do this, women and non-whites are the ones who need the "boost". So that's why the movements are called "feminism", and "Black Lives Matter". Men and whites don't need "equal rights"; they already have more rights than non-white and women, aside from a few issues such as equal child custody rights, which will equalise when gender rights reach balance.

Robot Tries to Escape from Children's Abuse

Jinx says...

Kevin over at Boston Robotics is just trying to prepare their robots to survive in a hard knock full of heartless arseholes and kids.

At least that's what my Dad told me.

That was a joke. My Dad is lovely. Domestic violence isn't funny. I'm sorry.

Anyway, tick ageist robot off the list. Next up is sexist, then racist... before long we'll have AI indistinguishable from humans!

Payback said:

Ya, Kevin over at Boston Robotics proves it doesn't end there...

Comedian Paul F. Tompkins on Political Correctness

enoch says...

i think he makes a great point in regards to jokes being well thought out in regards to controversial or potentially offensive joke material.

the really good comedians are the ones who can take a sensitive subject and portray it in a way that makes us reflect on the absurdity of our lives.holding a mirror up so we can all have a good laugh at our own contradictory nature.

carlin was a master at making us laugh at our own self-absorbtion.
bill burr has some his best material about domestic violence.
patrive o'neal makes misogyny hilarious.
doug stanhope revealing the absurdity of nationalism and pride in things we never had a part in.

a good comedian makes us laugh with jokes.
a great comedian makes us laugh at ourselves.



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