>> ^shinyblurry:

A mind created and designed it, therefore a mind is involved, therefore it is an invalid example..


So, by this argument, if we live in a deist universe, in which the universe was created but the creator pays it no mind, then abiogenesis and evolution by natural selection are completely plausible. That's an interesting position, it does not really help you here.

>> ^shinyblurry:

Abiogenesis is unproven because there is no evidence, it is just metaphysics. It's your faith that it is true. It is not the only coherent explanation, it is just the explanation that you have to believe because you have ruled out an intelligent designer apriori.

You seem to not understand the meaning of apriori. A few hundred years ago everybody in the western world, at least claimed to, believe the creation myth of genesis. We got to here from there, don't pretend your ideology has not had a chance, you were in charge of the game, we called your bluff, you just had nothing in your hand, you still don't.

Evolving molecules exist, they came into being at some point after it was possible for them to exist in this universe. The only non-magic hypotheses we have are based on a naturalistic model where these molecules are generated by a series of non-evolving processes. The gaps in the chemical record are very much like the gaps in the fossil record used to be, we have not filled them all, but neither have we found one that can not be crossed, and no reason to think they will not be filled.

>> ^shinyblurry:
Here is the hypothesis


The ID position is stated there in four parts, the last three follow from common decent, and the first one is either false, like all Behe's examples, or undemonstrated. It is mathematically possible that there is irreducible complexity somewhere, just as with faeries and unicorns, absence of evidence is not evidence of existence.

All the Discovery Institute links were painful in their fail. DI is a propaganda organization, only one of their links discusses any scientific discovery, and it actually makes no ID claims. The rest of the articles either make no claim, or have been shown to be false. If Well's article is going to be your flagship falsifiable ID position, fine, but you should probably know it's already been falsified here .

>> ^shinyblurry:

There is obviously a concrete difference since life doesn't come from non-life, and has never once been observed doing so. You have everything in the world to prove here.

This is your premise, and your conclusion, draw the line, and I will show you something on either side that confounds your "distinction". If you can't define the problem, I can't show it's flaws. Refusing to define your terms may get you by in theology, we are talking chemistry here, chemistry does not "work in mysterious ways".

>> ^shinyblurry:

if our mental processes are just chemical reactions, then there is no reason to believe anything is true. If our mental states have their origin in non-rational causes, rationality can't be trusted. You can't know if the rationality we have from evolutionary processes is discerning the truth of the world or not.

Ontology can't help you here, gods, since the can intervene, make it more difficult to make truth claims, not easier.

>> ^shinyblurry:

The reason it is labeled magic is because there is no proof.

There is no proof of anything. There is evidence of RNA/DNA metabolism, there is evidence of general chemical probability, there is no evidence for irreducible complexity, or anticipatory design in any non lab built genome. You can scream about nonexistent, and unneeded proof all day, science follows the evidence.

The people who don't want to hear this are the people who have made up their minds that they are responsible only to themselves. The idea of a higher power offends their selfish ideals. If you think you can stand on your own merits before a Holy God, feel free.

>> ^acidSpine:
Since your video has only 43 views and not a single vote, I'll just assume it's you and I talking here. Nobody can really untangle the mess of religiously-motivated psuedo-scientific conspiracy theories you subscribe to for you, least of all me. When you get all your information from Ray Comfort, Kent Hovind, the Discovery Institute and silly little videos like these it's no wonder you believe so much crap.
If these guys are so confident evolution is a lie and Jesus is the answer why don't they do the research, publish peer reviewed articles and step up to accept their Nobel prizes in Physics, Chemistry and Biology? What's that? Because they have no evidence, can't compete in the scientific arena and must resort to convincing unscientific plebs evolution is an ivory tower conspiracy set against Jesus? Spot on.
For the third time, do you wonder why thinking people don't want to hear this?

Since your video has only 43 views and not a single vote, I'll just assume it's you and I talking here. Nobody can really untangle the mess of religiously-motivated psuedo-scientific conspiracy theories you subscribe to for you, least of all me. When you get all your information from Ray Comfort, Kent Hovind, the Discovery Institute and silly little videos like these it's no wonder you believe so much crap.

If these guys are so confident evolution is a lie and Jesus is the answer why don't they do the research, publish peer reviewed articles and step up to accept their Nobel prizes in Physics, Chemistry and Biology? What's that? Because they have no evidence, can't compete in the scientific arena and must resort to convincing unscientific plebs evolution is an ivory tower conspiracy set against Jesus? Spot on.

For the third time, do you wonder why thinking people don't want to hear this?

Let's wait and see how the Discovery Institute or a similar organisation spins this... it's gonna be golden!

This is kind of a dupe, but seems to be created after he found a lawyer where in the original he is looking for legal representation. Original here: http://www.videosift.com/video/Discovery-Institute-Caught-Illegally-Censoring-Videos

Congratulations! Your comment has just received enough votes from the community to earn you 1 Power Point. Thank you for your quality contribution to VideoSift.

>> ^village1diot:
That will never happen. I look at it like this.
These corporations are like a lion grrrrabbing a zebra by the throat. And every time we move the teeth just go deeper. They will never let go and its too late to do anything about it.
I can think of only one way to stop them at this point - a massive revolution by the people. In this country that is highly unlikely. We are surrounded by religious nutjobs who think Jesus is coming to take us away and could give a crap about this world. Men who care more about the size of their dick than anything else. And women who are always right, even when they are wrong, and only worry about their vanity. And I know that everyone doesn't fall into these categories, but too many do. Let's face it, us that care, we will never get enough support to back us on any issue that isn't in the corporate interest. They control everything, most important of which is information. They censor everything through the media and there is nothing that most people hear about that they don't want us to hear. As you can tell, I'm not optimistic about this situation at all.
<div><div style="margin: 10px; overflow: auto; width: 80%; float: left; position: relative;" class="convoPiece"> dannym3141 said:<img style="margin: 4px 10px 10px; float: left; width: 40px;" src="http://static1.videosift.com/avatars/d/dannym3141-s.jpg" onerror="ph(this)"><div style="position: absolute; margin-left: 52px; padding-top: 1px; font-size: 10px;" class="commentarrow">◄</div><div style="padding: 8px; margin-left: 60px; margin-top: 2px; min-height: 30px;" class="nestedComment box">These people should not be allowed to go around bullying people in this "free" world in which we live. They should be concerned that they'll never see their family for a few years, that'd make them think twice before pushing people around with green paper.
</div></div></div>

Mate i share your lack of enthusiasm, i think we've reached a critical apathy point, where mostly no one cares enough about anything to get active or get involved unless it's something completely off the scale. The position that we have allowed our politicians, banks, and businesses to get into is something we should be extremely ashamed of. And today the people who are growing up to become the next generation of politicians bankers and heads of business are undereducated (to make school stats go up), indisciplined (because they might sue us if we shout at them at school), greedy (because we tell all kids that they're capable of things that they are clearly not) and apathetic themselves.

Hey kids, did you fail/barely pass all your schooling and colleges? Don't worry, everyone goes to university nowadays. We've watered it down so that you can go and learn whilst the bright people who push this world and humanity to new heights get a more watered down education which is also now spread across too many students! ENJOY YOUR LIFE OF OVER-QUALIFIED MEDIOCRITY. NO WONDER PEOPLE WITH DEGREES ARE UNEMPLOYED, DEGREES AIN'T WORTH SHIT ANYMORE. How come we suddenly send trade occupations through universities? I know loads of electricians and such that say they have to UNTEACH people the university degree that they spend £12000 on before they can learn properly how to be an electrician. Suddenly apprenticeships and on-the-job experience isn't good enough, we need them to sit in a fucking classroom and get huge student debt to do a good job? I guarantee in 1 generation we'll have a shortage of quality electricians. All our electricians will have a PhD but not a fucking clue how to change a fucking lightbulb.

AND WE ONLY HAVE STUDENT DEBTS BECAUSE WE CAN'T AFFORD UNIVERSITY GRANTS BECAUSE 90% OF THE POPULATION NOW GOES TO A UNIVERSITY TO DO A DEGREE WHICH THEY DON'T NEED OR PROBABLY EVEN USE.

Oh my god i had typed "I won't rant though." Then when i went back to correct a spelling mistake, i'd already ranted.

>> ^dannym3141:

These people should not be allowed to go around bullying people in this "free" world in which we live. They should be concerned that they'll never see their family for a few years, that'd make them think twice before pushing people around with green paper.


That will never happen. I look at it like this.

These corporations are like a lion grrrrabbing a zebra by the throat. And every time we move the teeth just go deeper. They will never let go and its too late to do anything about it.

I can think of only one way to stop them at this point - a massive revolution by the people. In this country that is highly unlikely. We are surrounded by religious nutjobs who think Jesus is coming to take us away and could give a crap about this world. Men who care more about the size of their dick than anything else. And women who are always right, even when they are wrong, and only worry about their vanity. And I know that everyone doesn't fall into these categories, but too many do. Let's face it, us that care, we will never get enough support to back us on any issue that isn't in the corporate interest. They control everything, most important of which is information. They censor everything through the media and there is nothing that most people hear about that they don't want us to hear. As you can tell, I'm not optimistic about this situation at all.

>> ^Croccydile:
Upvote for a shining example of why the DMCA is/was fucking retarded.
Despite the "penalties" for an inappropriate use of takedown notice, I don't think there has been a single case ever where this has been applied. There have been counter-claims used before to get the material posted back, but it seems to be a rare occurrence.
The problem lies within say YouTube taking the video down, and being required by the DMCA to keep it down for a peroid of time (a week?) for a DMCA counter-claim to be processed if necessary. Unless you kick and scream about it like this guy is doing, everyone forgets about it and moves on because of the cool off period. If it ever got past step 1, the amount of money involved to take someone to court over a misfiled claim would bankrupt most people. By then the culprit will just go "LOL, sorry" but the damage will already have been done.
In short, its an extremely easy way for corporations to censor because of this setup. You have almost zero options as the little guy (it was designed this way on purpose!) since YouTube (or any other hosting company) has to follow the DMCA no matter how bad the law is.
Whats even worse is when places outside the US comply to the DMCA blindly despite having no legal obligation to do so whatsoever. Disgusting.


Well said man, i've always had this problem about the legal system. It works the same way for big businesses etc. - you make them rich, then the moment you cross some vague line that cuts their profit by even a penny, they have a team of legal experts on hand which they don't have to pay extra for cos they're already on-hand. All they need to do is come and say something that sounds worrying to you, and you now have to either submit or spend your money to defend yourself when you may have done absolutely nothing wrong.

The legal system is absolutely fucked in this way - it benefits people with money. If you don't have it, you can't defend yourself from people who do; you either conform to their desires, or spend money to find out if they're even telling you the truth. If you think about it, throwing around false accusations could be part of an accepted system to generate extra income for the legal professions. When one person makes a false accusation, another person needs to be hired so you even know where you stand.

Imo, there ought to be heavy, heavy penalties (perhaps massive fines or jail time) for threatening false legal action. A couple of examples of a legal professional going to jail for years or bankrupt because he threatened someone with some trumped up nonsense at the request of a fatcat would go a long way. These people should not be allowed to go around bullying people in this "free" world in which we live. They should be concerned that they'll never see their family for a few years, that'd make them think twice before pushing people around with green paper.

Your video, Creationist "Discovery" Institute Busted, has made it into the Top 15 New Videos listing. Congratulations on your achievement. For your contribution you have been awarded 1 Power Point.

"if everyone followed the teachings of jesus christ, that we have have peace on earth..."
That has to be the biggest douchebag comment I've heard in a long time. People (attempting to) follow the teachings of jesus has caused more bloodshed throughout history than is ever redeemable through the sum of the benefits provided by religion. I'll give O'Reilly a thesis of my own, basic human morals are not derived from religion, rather has been corrupted by it since ancient times. Morals such as, please don't kill me for thinking differently as you. Humans are social creatures, so we have a primal conscience to be (relatively) kind to one another, because it is necessary for survival. As such, translations of interpretations of old bedtime stories has no authority dictating what is considered right and wrong.

Ok now that i'm genuinely pissed off, all I have left to say is, although I think Dawkins' work is of noble intent, at the end of the day, he will accomplish nothing. Directly attacking people who have been brainwashed for their entire life is not going to change their minds. The only way to rid American society of the stranglehold of religious ignorance is through better education and perhaps cutting off funding for major institutions that promote irrational thinking (that would be you, Discovery Institute).

>> ^entr0py:
This is one big problem with youtube's model. They seem to simply assume that all takedown requests are valid. There is no scrutiny of any kind, I doubt there's even human decision making involved, they just automatically side with whoever claims to be the copyright holder.
No doubt they made this system to appease large companies with even larger lawyers. But it's only a matter of time before their disregard for freedom of speech gets them in trouble. Or maybe it already has, it's not like I know what I'm talking about.


This isn't really Youtube's fault; this is how the DMCA is written. The DMCA says that the host has liability for the infringing content but that they are exempt from that liability if they remove said content immediately upon receipt of a complaint, rather than waiting for a legal decision.

Could Youtube take a hard stance and leave these videos up? Sure, but it would probably end with Youtube being shutdown inside a year.

Everyone should have a basic familiarity with the DMCA as it's one of the most significant cases of rights-trampling in recent years. It's given "IP owners" more power than any single entity in the legal system. Oh, and it was brought to you by Bill Clinton... the one thing I'd really like to punch him in the mouth for.

Your video, Discovery Institute - Casey Luskin - Ignorance, has made it into the Top 15 New Videos listing. Congratulations on your achievement. For your contribution you have been awarded 1 Power Point.

the idea that should be behind the Discovery Institute, it trying to marry science with religious ways of thinking, would be a good idea i think. but then you watch this and you realise what it really seems to be all about, twisting and lies and misunderstanding of the obvious (on purpose even).

Your video, "Discovery" Institute Caught Illegally Censoring Videos, has made it into the Top 15 New Videos listing. Congratulations on your achievement. For your contribution you have been awarded 1 Power Point.