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Cyclist runs red light

Mordhaus (Member Profile)

Cyclist runs red light

Cop Pepper Spraying Teenage Girl

bcglorf says...

We really do see an entirely different world.

What I see originally happening here is a dispute/conflict between two citizens. The driver and the cyclist. There was a collision that damaged the car and maybe the cyclist. The cyclist is a minor, and the only account we get on video is the driver fairly insistent they were the ones that got hit when the cyclist ran a traffic sign. Blame on that doesn't matter to the video though because the police aren't meant to address blame and never attempt to.

Do we agree on the above preamble view of what happened at least? I think we do, so I'll pick up with that assumed.

The cyclist does not want to cooperate with the required exchange of information for insurance and liability purposes. So presumably the driver got the police get involved. This is exactly what I think we all should want. Rather than expecting the parties involved resort to their own use of force, we want to defer that to trained police officers. This is preferable for either party to simply being victimised with no recourse for injury to the cyclist if the driver's at fault or damages to the car if the cyclist is.

I again would hope we are still on the same page at this point, lets call it point B?

If I understand right, we now diverge in that I believe when office says come here to the cyclist, the cyclist is in the wrong for instead dodging around the officer and trying to take off on their bike. When the officer immediately stops them from that physically and tells them they are being detained, the cyclist is again wrong for actively resisting for the entire remainder of the video.

You seem to think the officers would be angry to see their child in the video, and we agree on that. We disagree on whom they would be angry with though. I'm pretty sure the officers would angry with their kid for consistently resisting the officers and would likely be telling their kid they are lucky the officers were as gentle as they were because they absolutely didn't need to be.

I don't know who to credit the analogy to, but this feels to me like an instance of the police being the wolf hounds protecting the us sheeple. Their use of violence and force looks scary to us and we just wish those mean, nasty and violent wolfhounds would be replaced with more mild mannered sheep. It's not until an actual wolf comes along that all of sudden we wonder were those hounds are because we went to get as close under their shadows as we can.

The reason it comes to mind is because having 3-4 officers spending hours begging, pleading and otherwise trying to non-violently persuade a cursing, kicking, resistant teenager to take accept pretty basic instructions is not what I want. I get the impression you would prefer that, but I do not. I want the officers sitting at nearby coffee shop bored and eating donuts instead. When they come to deal with this incident, I want them back to those donuts as quickly as possible. The reason being, when a wolf somewhere starts up a domestic dispute, or starts beating up someone in the street, or breaking into somebodies home I want the police unhindered and ready to their 'real' jobs.

newtboy said:

In America, you have every right to ignore them unless they give a lawful command, which you must obey. They cannot arrest you for silence, or for ignoring a request. I'll take my brother's expensive lawyer's advice over anyone's, and he said the only answer allowed is "ask my lawyer", and to do what they command, but not what they ask.

The girl wasn't aggressively pushing to me, but she also wasn't complying with a lawful command. If the audio is any indication, she was trying to get her phone out of her pocket while lying down handcuffed. She should have complied, but they also should have put her all the way in like they're trained to do, not 3/4 of the way. It's easy and safe to open the other door and pull her another foot into the car where she can't block anything, and that doesn't result in a lawsuit and more public distrust, but that wouldn't teach her a lesson. Pepper spray is not as safe as that by far.

It's not cool to hate cops, and I really wish they would stop getting caught doing things that foster hatred. I want them to act in a way the public can always support, not the least patient and most aggressive they can legally justify in every situation. It would be good if they could be thinking 'how would I feel if someone did this to my daughter/son under the same conditions.
I doubt any of them would be ok with that happening to their child, tantrum or no. They could have been worse here, but also could have defused it all with a single simple command to sit at the beginning. Don't expect an irrational, young, scared girl to act like an adult...that's beyond the capabilities of most adults.

You can humbly submit to authority if you wish. My forefathers fought and died to secure my rights to not answer questions or submit to the every whim of authority, I'll not disrespect their sacrifices by waiving those hard won rights for authority's, or my own convenience.

It would be nice if 15 year old girls were civil, but few I've known are when cornered. I think that's the real reason for the spraying, but not an excuse imo. To me, the cop's pride needs to give way to reason and logic, or we'll keep paying out multi million dollar judgements.

Bike/Motorcycle Crash, Chase, Fight, and Escape

newtboy says...

Bunch of douchbags.
This is why people intentionally run cyclists over, assholes like this.
I hope the next bike he wrecks is ridden by an over zealous cop that breaks his legs and gets away with it. (Not really) Get his ass off the road.
All those bikers should be in jail, they acted as a group/gang, charge them as a group/gang.

VENGANCE!!!!!

Mookal says...

I'll throw my hat into the internet justice ring for funsies.

I'm guessing the "pro cyclist" folks that view this have never lived in a location with:

1.) A city that spends millions of tax revenue on shared roads, road diets and special lanes for cyclists
2.) A large population of self righteous, passive aggressive cyclists that ignore road warnings, laws or common sense
3.) Or had their vehicle leaned on, mirrors folded in, kicked/punched or spat on while sitting at a traffic crossing

As a cyclist and motorist, I'm glad they got soaked.

VENGANCE!!!!!

notarobot says...

Not at all.

They two pedestrians should have moved over for the car in the first place.

Why didn't they? Can't be sure.

Was there a giant puddle they were avoiding? That's not clear. It looks like there was a sidewalk, but still no bike lane for the cyclists who starts the video avoiding other traffic on a narrow road.

One thing that is clear is that it's not the pedestrians who started yelling. Even if the pedestrians were in the wrong for not yielding to the vehicle (they should have moved over) it was the driver who escalated the situation. This makes the driver the biggest jerk.

(I still think it looks staged.)

newtboy said:

So, you're one of those....people who think that if they're looking at their cell phone, everyone else better just look out for them, not the other way around, and walking down the middle of the road while tweeting is just everyone else's problem? Hmmmm.

VENGANCE!!!!!

notarobot says...

They guys in the car are the real assholes here.

Unless this is staged, which seems possible. Strange that the pedestrian and cyclist crossed the street and turned around, to wait by a puddle, isn't it.

newtboy (Member Profile)

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newtboy (Member Profile)

Epic Anti-texting rant

Digitalfiend says...

I see this every morning while dropping my kid off at school. Parents texting while sitting at stop signs or driving through the school zone with their heads down (there are three crosswalks and LOTS of kids, so that's even scarier). I also see this a lot as a cyclist. Usually when I see an oncoming car slowly drifting into in my lane it's generally someone with their head down and, I assume, looking at their phone.

People are so stupid...

Butt Brake

Buttle says...

I haven't tried it, but the butt brake lever seems to me to fit the application pretty well. Cyclists needing quick braking develop the habit of shift backwards on the saddle, or over the back of the saddle anyway. This helps to counteract the unweighting of the rear wheel that occurs with heavy brake application.

With the butt brake, an existing reflex is repurposed -- clever.

Dumdeedum said:

Yep, either a separate brake lever you can clip on and off or some way of hooking it into the existing brake system would be far better. Butts just don't have the response time, to say nothing of the ungainly pose needed.

Dutch Cyclist Suffers Horrific Crash at 2016 Rio Olympics

Digitalfiend says...

Can't believe she only fractured her back. The way she came down on that curb was horrific and I immediately thought that she'd be paralyzed. As a cyclist myself, I kind of wish I hadn't watched that now ... ugh.

Mordhaus (Member Profile)

What Happens in Russia When a Cyclist Crosses the Street

notarobot says...

Yeah that cyclist was either a part of it, or got out of there in a hurry.

Drachen_Jager said:

If it's not fake, it appears the black VW was following the Porsche with the intent of kidnapping the occupants. Either the cyclist gave them the opportunity, or he was actually part of the operation (though he really didn't block the Porsche enough to be guaranteed that kind of response, unless they knew he was prone to that sort of thing).



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