>> ^quantumushroom:
Oy vey! Torture is listening to this no-talent a-hole talk endlessly about torture.
How many of you lefties are willing to explain to the survivors and families of a terrorist attack why we didn't torture some piece of filth for the intel to stop it?
If it's more than 3, then you've just exceeded the number of deserving swine who've been waterboarded.


Not being a lefty, I guess I don't count, but I am willing to tell families of terror victims that becoming a terrorist (and torturing, which is designed to create terror, makes the torturer a terrorist, and the country he comes from a supporter of terrorism) is not the way to fight terrorists. Becoming what you wish to destroy leaves you either failing to destroy the enemy or destroying yourself AS the enemy. Do you understand now?

>> ^quantumushroom:
Oy vey! Torture is listening to this no-talent a-hole talk endlessly about torture.
How many of you lefties are willing to explain to the survivors and families of a terrorist attack why we didn't torture some piece of filth for the intel to stop it?
If it's more than 3, then you've just exceeded the number of deserving swine who've been waterboarded.


Not being a lefty, I guess I don't count, but I am willing to tell families of terror victims that becoming a terrorist (and torturing, which is designed to create terror, makes the torturer a terrorist, and the country he comes from a supporter of terrorism) is not the way to fight terrorists. Becoming what you wish to destroy leaves you either failing to destroy the enemy or destroying yourself AS the enemy. Do you understand now?

Good comment. I think the problem is one of control. If i knew a person knew where my family was being held hostage and i thought i could force it out of him, i'd use any means. But i can't present a series of legal or physical bars to my government which allows them to do harm to do greater good without also allowing them to do harm alone. If the whole world were trustworthy and interested in the greater good, i could allow my government license to do ANYTHING and know that i would benefit. In this world, i can't trust people so far, and i must demand we put the bars and laws in place so that my conscience is clean, but also so that people who were tortured and knew nothing will not beget more violence in the future.

In reply to this comment by Mashiki:
>> ^Jaace:
The point here is that torture is bad and we don't do it...

Depending, torture isn't bad. Incorrect application of torture is bad, using it in a way that makes a suspect want to say anything in order to avoid having it applied again so you gain incorrect information is bad. Use of torture when you know they're already guilty in order to actually get something from them so you can save lives? Ethically or morally either of those it could be questionable.

If I slap you in irons, for, "speaking against the president." Beat you every day, starve you, and break all your fingers. Then tell you to confess, or I'm going to start working on your toes and legs. We've got a serioius problem.

If I catch you as a known terrorist suspect, that's already planted a device that will kill up to 5000 people. I have no freaking clue where it is. And I apply sleep deprivation, loud music, and humiliation(also torture btw) to go with lighter side. To make you crack, so I can save up to several thousand lives. What happens now?

I suppose most people are going to start to have issues with that whole ethical/moral dilemma bit aren't they? Then again, I know we've got death cultists here, and can easily say "my moral standards are higher, than the lives of 20, 400, or 5000 people," then again they've never been in that situation either. The reality is, someone's head will roll if the truth came out that there was an individual, who could tell them where it was and they didn't do everything. Then it becomes, why didn't you do everything? Well the public didn't like torture...so we let them stew in a room.

Stating an ethical choice on what you believe, and being in the ethical situation, and knowing the ramifications of those ethical choices in the end are wholly different. So are the choices. The rules changed when the "older" breed of terrorism came back to life. Questions in questions, what is an individuals breaking point for their own ethical code?

Lets say the catchism now. Ethics is fun!

>> ^Mashiki:
I'm looking for the Nazi propaganda still. Freakin' misleading title.
The British didn't need to torture, they left it to the Canadians. Nice clean hands, and we already had experience in it.


Timestamp 7:25 through 8:30 or so covers the bit I think you're disputing.

Perhaps a more accurate phrasing would have been "Fox News Contributor Bill O'Reilly Uses Convicted Nazi War Criminal's Testimony That's Contradicted by Neutral Accounts of Events to Paint Fmr. Prime Minister Churchill as a Torturer in Order to Refute a Single Line from an Obama Press Statement Opposing Torture", but it just doesn't have the same ring.

>> ^Jaace:
The point here is that torture is bad and we don't do it...

Depending, torture isn't bad. Incorrect application of torture is bad, using it in a way that makes a suspect want to say anything in order to avoid having it applied again so you gain incorrect information is bad. Use of torture when you know they're already guilty in order to actually get something from them so you can save lives? Ethically or morally either of those it could be questionable.

If I slap you in irons, for, "speaking against the president." Beat you every day, starve you, and break all your fingers. Then tell you to confess, or I'm going to start working on your toes and legs. We've got a serioius problem.

If I catch you as a known terrorist suspect, that's already planted a device that will kill up to 5000 people. I have no freaking clue where it is. And I apply sleep deprivation, loud music, and humiliation(also torture btw) to go with lighter side. To make you crack, so I can save up to several thousand lives. What happens now?

I suppose most people are going to start to have issues with that whole ethical/moral dilemma bit aren't they? Then again, I know we've got death cultists here, and can easily say "my moral standards are higher, than the lives of 20, 400, or 5000 people," then again they've never been in that situation either. The reality is, someone's head will roll if the truth came out that there was an individual, who could tell them where it was and they didn't do everything. Then it becomes, why didn't you do everything? Well the public didn't like torture...so we let them stew in a room.

Stating an ethical choice on what you believe, and being in the ethical situation, and knowing the ramifications of those ethical choices in the end are wholly different. So are the choices. The rules changed when the "older" breed of terrorism came back to life. Questions in questions, what is an individuals breaking point for their own ethical code?

Lets say the catchism now. Ethics is fun!

Your video, Fox Uses Actual Nazi Propaganda to Justify Torture, has made it into the Top 15 New Videos listing. Congratulations on your achievement. For your contribution you have been awarded 1 Power Point.

Tags for this video have been changed from 'Winston Churchill, Sinews of Peace, Iron Curtain, USSR, cold war' to 'Winston Churchill, Sinews of Peace, Iron Curtain, USSR, Cold War' - edited by calvados

>> ^rychan:
1) You're comparing Churchill's private conversations to a news conference by Obama.
2) Those quotes by Churchill are all unsourced. We don't know if they actually happened. http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Winston_Churchill


1) yawn
2) snore
3) you're taking it all too seriously.. if you want to experience churchill's genuine genius, read his quotes page on wikipedia and be amazed, don't come expecting them on a video posting website, all you'll get here is sarcasm and hopefully a few funny observations
4) i'll edit the comment for you if it's not up to your high standards.. happy now!?

>> ^dannym3141:
What a dark day in world affairs when all it takes for us to consider something a witty retort is for a leader to answer a reporter's question with A SENSIBLE FUCKING ANSWER. Move along people, all this does is make me feel better about thinking obama is NOT a toolbag, and that bush was a toolbag inside a toolbox.
Churchill:
Lady Nancy Astor: Winston, if I were your wife, I’d poison your tea.
Churchill: Nancy, if I were your husband, I’d drink it
BOOM.
Bessie Braddock: Sir, you are drunk.
Churchill: And you, madam, are ugly. But in the morning, I shall be sober.
POW.
Young man (after seeing Churchill leave the bathroom without washing his hands): At Eton they taught us to wash our hands after using the toilet.
Churchill: At Harrow they taught us not to piss on our hands.
KAPOW.
Let's get some real fucking genius wit back into politics, can we? (no, this doesn't demonstrate churchill's genius, but trust me he was)


1) You're comparing Churchill's private conversations to a news conference by Obama.
2) Those quotes by Churchill are all unsourced. We don't know if they actually happened. http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Winston_Churchill

What a dark day in world affairs when all it takes for us to consider something a witty retort is for a leader to answer a reporter's question with A SENSIBLE FUCKING ANSWER. Move along people, all this does is make me feel better about thinking obama is NOT a toolbag, and that bush was a toolbag inside a toolbox.

Churchill:
Lady Nancy Astor: Winston, if I were your wife, I’d poison your tea.
Churchill: Nancy, if I were your husband, I’d drink it

BOOM.

Bessie Braddock: Sir, you are drunk.
Churchill: And you, madam, are ugly. But in the morning, I shall be sober.

POW.

Young man (after seeing Churchill leave the bathroom without washing his hands): At Eton they taught us to wash our hands after using the toilet.
Churchill: At Harrow they taught us not to piss on our hands.

KAPOW.

Let's get some real fucking genius wit back into politics, can we? (no, this doesn't demonstrate churchill's genius, but trust me he was)

(DISCLAIMER THESE ARE NOT NECESSARILY DEMONSTRATIVE OF REALITY AND RYCHAN SNIFFS WOMEN'S BICYCLE SEATS......this is also unsourced!)

>> ^Sagemind:
the RCMP take care of the larger chores



Interesting side-story.

I mentioned my Grandfather was an RCMP officer, back in WWII he tried out for the military and was turned away due to "Flat Feet" and joined the RCMP instead.

For one reason or another, Winston Churchill was in Canada, not 100% sure the reason, and my Grandad was the one who guarded his room.

Churchill saw my grandad standing outside his room, and struck up a conversation, eventually he said "Do you have to stand here all night to guard my room?" to which my Grandad obviously replied yes, so, Churchill turned to one of the servants and said "Get this man a chair".

And so, my Grandad sat at attention all night long

Uh, Coulter was right. Olbermann claims that he went to an Ivy League college, and he didn't. The ag school at Cornell is not the elite Ivy League school, and all the people there know it, even if they're polite enough not to mention it. Coulter only raised the point because Olbermann is so pathetically insecure, he mentions his "ivy league" education on a regular basis.

It's sort of like Ward Churchill claiming to be a Native American in order to get a tenured professorship, when, you know, he wasn't.

Olbermann just comes off as pathetic and stupid (I'm bringing my diploma to work today!).... but then again, that's par for the course for him. I'm surprised he remembers to breathe sometimes.

"Socailism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy: its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery." - Winston Churchill

A lot of my favorites are already mentioned here, like HHGTTG, Pratchett, Vonnegut, Simmons, so here a few others, since I don't want to sound repetitive (in no particular order):
* Winston Churchill - The Second World War
* Walter Moers - The Thirteen and a Half Lives of Captain Bluebear
* Scott Adams - The Dilbert principle
* Charlotte Chandler - Hello, I must be going
* Frederick Brooks - The mythical man-month

>> ^StukaFox:
"Americans can always be counted on to do the right thing when all other options have been exhausted." -- Winston Churchill.

Also, Americans, World War 2 was over 60 years ago. The Moon landing was almost 40 years ago. What the hell have you done in the near half-century since then to justify your unbridled and grating arrogance?


Oh, you know... this and that.