^
ah.. but part of the awesomeness of burlesque is the female form is ALWAYS beautiful and the body uses its inherent sexuality to make a provacative point. i think the point of this video is that spiders are hornier than youd think. hooray for sexual satire! oh.. also.. for a big girl she does have some abs. and i would love to have an ass, even if it was a big fat one. im gonna go eat more pie now. hooray for goals!

This was a very shallow, contentless 'interview'. It was basically Sharon (who seems to be a terrible talk show host), showing off that she knows Dita and got her to perform for Ozzy.

Meh.

No substantial questions at all, nothing asking about whether Dita has seen a shift in public acceptance of Burlesque, the difference between burlesque and stripping, whether she's encountered negative reactions to her profession... etc. etc. etc.

Plus, it's kinda old, being that here she had just got married to MM.

Also, man, Dita has a fair overbite (which is a valid observation seeing as she makes her living on her body and appearance).

I'm home alone and have nothing better to do than respond to this thread, because a lot of the comments in here still bother me. So... here goes nothing.

>> ^MarineGunrock:
>> The video in question (Dita) is an act of grace a beauty, not a vivid depiction of sex. The act is designed to be something that one merely watches, from which they are detached and it is forever that way. It is a solo act meant to please for the sake of a good show.


WRONG! There is absolutely nothing graceful or beautiful about that (or her, really). See my comment on the performance in a minute.


Dirty books, on the other hand, are of a couple's acts in the bedroom, written to suck the reader into the characters words and actions, even letting them place themselves into the character's shoes. The book is more about being a part of the act, making the reader imagine (through ample use of details and adjectives) every part of sex. It's porn you read, and not watch, though I will say it is not disgusting or objectifying as real porn.


You know why women love romance novels? Because we can imagine it's our significant other doing everything the protagonist in the novel is. Generally it's a scene that plays out in our minds with the characters, not us (women). But even if we were picturing ourselves in that mental scene, it would be with our significant other. Because really, the sex scenes in romance novels are a lot more exciting than ones in real life. If we got enough romance, we wouldn't need to read romance novels. There's nothing disgusting or objectifying about getting a little inspiration. It's erotica - not porn.


My question to you is this: How can you tell the internet in one comment that "Even I can appreciate burlesque" but in the next, tell the internet that it's not acceptable for men with significant others to watch it, if only for art of the performance?


Burlesque is an art, but that's not burlesque. That's a terrible, terrible striptease. You haven't seen any of the great old burlesque. It originated as a sort of comedy show. Gypsy Rose Lee (who, by the way, the Warner Brothers movie "Gypsy" is about. I guarantee you Dita is not burlesque if Warner Bros. did a burlesque movie) and Sally Rand (not quite as good, I don't think, but still notable, and the woman who originated the fan dance). Do you see any comedy in Dita's "work?" I didn't think so. It used to be a complete one-act comedy show, not a two-minute, poorly-done dance where you end up in nothing but nipple pasties and a g-string. Look up some of the Bettie Page stuff on here.

P.S. "Even I can appreciate burlesque" means I like some, but not this [Dita]. For someone who admits they've only seen two clips of burlesque, how dare you confront me on something like that? Look up the history of burlesque. Maybe watch someone other than Dita von Teese. It's like someone saying they don't like a particular artist, or a particular period in art history. It doesn't mean I dislike every painting ever made, or that no one should look at art anymore because I decided I don't like it. Burlesque has never been about the ability to strip down from a dress to pasties and a g-string in less than 20 seconds. There's nothing burlesque about her act - it's a striptease, pure and simple.


I hold that burlesque is only that; an art. I personally don't get any arousal from it, not does it raise any carnal desires within myself. Hell, I've only seen two instances of it, both here on the sift. The female body, with all it's curves, is designed to flow like water in almost all directions. Combined with graceful movements and a dynamic act, it is a thing of grace and beauty.


Oh please. You just admitted yourself you've only ever seen two instances of burlesque. How can you possibly go on about how graceful it is, and how it's such a glorious artform, when you've seen two "dances," both by the same woman?

>> ^MarineGunrock:
As I looked around, I saw (obviously) many women in bikinis. Don't get me wrong, there's nothing bad about bikinis, but it got me thinking about the whole "objectification" thing. If women, as a whole, don't want to be objectified, why wear such a reveling swim suit when there are plenty of good looking alternatives? [edit] What I'm saying it that it opens them up to it.
And for that matter, why put make up on?


1) You've heard it before, but it obviously bears repeating - Women don't dress up for men. They dress up for other women. I shouldn't have to think every morning when I get dressed, "If I see someone with a penis today, will he say something lewd if I'm wearing this? Might someone possibly get excited?" I dress for other women. Would they think I'm attractive? Intimidating? Smart? Chic? If I wanted to dress to attract attention from men, I'd walk around in a bikini top and shorts. But I don't.

2) Just because women wear revealing clothing doesn't mean they're inviting you to look. I lost 20 pounds and bought myself a bikini, because I felt good about my body again. I regained so much self-confidence just by owning it, and that I was no longer embarrassed or felt fat walking around in one. That doesn't mean I wear it just to attract attention, or in the hopes that guys compliment me. I wouldn't take a compliment seriously if I was wearing a bikini anyway - I know my boobs are all you were looking at.

Maybe I wear makeup because I want to feel pretty, or I got a pimple this morning, or I have a sunburn and my skin tone is uneven. Why should it matter?

Congratulations! Your comment has just received enough votes from the community to earn you 1 Power Point. Thank you for your quality contribution to VideoSift.

mmm... it seems this thread has been resuscitated so i fear no repercussion of posting my hello!

my name is chris and i've been registered to the sift since december of 2006. i'm obviously a lurker more than anything, but it's really because i don't spend a lot of time digging up videos. the only reason i felt compelled to find something worth posting was to get rid of my probie status! (i trust you all understand.)

i've got a bachelor's in german from UC berkeley, but i spent about 3.5 years learning electrical engineering and computer programming. after getting my heart broken, i changed my major to change my friends and surroundings. i have not looked back since; being out of the basement is invaluable, and so are great books and interesting people.

i love burlesque. you can probably find me at the uptown club in oakland or somewhere in the city at a show. (that's san francisco.)

thanks to a woman whom i've adored for years, but never done anything with, i'm addicted to cycling. i ride fixed gear for fun, not fashion. the bike has a phrase i painted on it, "my other bike has gears." i'm also a mechanic, and i used to autocross my old 1989 honda accord because, well, why not.

videosift has been one of my regular stops on the internet... along with big picture, nytimes, wsj, and (until recently) my warcraft guild's website. i have been "clean" for about three months now. i have no intention to return to addictive gaming.

i'm studying to become a recognized beer judge by the BJCP. i will know my score after the november 14th 2008 test. my background is in wine, but beer is amazingly complex and terribly tasty.

currently, i work for an enormous independent auto shop in berkeley. we are solar powered, do anything hybrid, and have a great reputation. i am the sys-ad, but i also interface between the mechanics and customers since i don't mind talking with people.

i'm 26, and single... but it's my 'fault.' i don't like to fuck around, probably because i respect women; but i'm a good looking guy and could easily capitalize on that. i have eyes for two women who, for reasons beyond my feeble masculine conception, seem to have little interest in me.

the sift rages on! i would like to thank cat power for being the musical backdrop for reading this sift-talk.

much love and respect for everyone, including the impressive (intelligent) trolls as well. i do not condone choggie's downvote/discard actions, but his comments consistently brought a smirk to my face.

eff (like the letter, not the keebler )

You forgot one:
http://cooking.videosift.com/talk/Sift-Up-Vancouver-08-Success



In reply to this comment by eric3579:
A History of Sift-Ups

http://www.videosift.com/talk/Videosift-Meetup-No-Four-bigger-better-more-burlesque
http://www.videosift.com/talk/New-Orleans-SiftUp
http://www.videosift.com/talk/Second-Ever-VideoSift-Meet-Up
http://www.videosift.com/talk/Third-Ever-Videosift-Meet-Up
http://www.videosift.com/talk/Dag-Cow-Sift-Up
http://www.videosift.com/talk/Videosift-Meetup-No-Five-London-UK
http://blog.videosift.com/lucky760/Thanksgiving-SiftUp-in-the-OC
http://www.videosift.com/talk/SiftUp-in-The-OC

A History of Sift-Ups

http://www.videosift.com/talk/Videosift-Meetup-No-Four-bigger-better-more-burlesque
http://www.videosift.com/talk/New-Orleans-SiftUp
http://www.videosift.com/talk/Second-Ever-VideoSift-Meet-Up
http://www.videosift.com/talk/Third-Ever-Videosift-Meet-Up
http://www.videosift.com/talk/Dag-Cow-Sift-Up
http://www.videosift.com/talk/Videosift-Meetup-No-Five-London-UK
http://blog.videosift.com/lucky760/Thanksgiving-SiftUp-in-the-OC
http://www.videosift.com/talk/SiftUp-in-The-OC
http://cooking.videosift.com/talk/Sift-Up-Vancouver-08-Success

It's just an attempt to help balance in a way all the attention videos get if they draw attention to the beauty of the female form, even if it's not the primary reason the video is notable.

It's of course different in a number of ways, but St. Pierre's aesthetic style is part of why he's one of the more visible celebrities in his sport.

All of this is Lady's fault, if she hadn't of posted that darned burlesque sick shit in the first place... Oh and I wager 10 quid on 75% of the blokes here already having bashed one out to Pinky's avatar to make a point

<edit> plus one femme

>> ^thepinky:
And what of the problems of our society? What DO they stem from? Are we supposed to completely refrain from assigning blame to any of our own practices? Are we supposed to allow our society to deteriorate because we can't get to the root causes of our problems and fix them? There is a general trend on the Sift toward the attitude that the fewer controls and restraints on behavior, the better. That nothing matters except pleasure and freedom. I just don't agree with that philosophy. Sometimes your freedoms hurt other people, and in order to be moral, people have to sacrifice a few freedoms. Porn doesn't help, it hurts.


A very one sided view of the situation.

Sex crime existed before widely distributed pornography. Except in the past, it was often accepted (such as nobles predilections for young boys or assaulting the cleaning staff as the whim took them)if not tacitly encouraged. That is not to say pornographic texts did not exist, just the ability to lay hands on them has never been so easy.

Then you have sexual deviancy/molestation in absentia of pornography. People who have had their sexuality repressed often have it manifest in unhealthy fashions. The Catholic church is a great example. Priests and "bad Catholic schoolgirls" come to mind.

Lastly, what about the millions of people world wide who enjoy sex without love, sex with themselves, sex with porn or just enjoy watching it for the compelling storyline (bwahahaha) who never actually commit a sex crime?

Isn't it far more likely that a person with certain proclivities or perversions (or just a rapist/molester) collects pornography because it is what they are interested in? Similar to violent people enjoying violent media (rather than the contention that violent media makes people violent...). Porn may desensitise a person but I honestly believe it doesn't create monsters, the monster is already in the person.

>> ^thepinky:
Porn distorts our view of sex. Porn separates sex from love and emotion.

Have you considered that there was never a connection to begin with? Sex with someone you love is a very different experience than sex alone, yes, but it's a big jump from that to saying that sex with love is right and sex without is wrong.

We wonder "Why-oh-why is child molestation increasing? Oh what can we do about it? Oh, no, porn couldn't make any difference, because I view porn! There's no way that there is anything bad about it! I get sexual release! If anything else, it KEEPS them from doing bad things!" and on and on and on. Porn DOES NOT decrease the need for sexual release, it increases it. The more you look at porn, the more often you want to, the more interesting you want it to be, and some people take it too far. Just because you don' doesn't mean that it isn't a disgusting an unnatural thing. Do you think sex crimes develop because a person's sexuality was kept under good regulation?

I've never wondered that, no, not least of all because I'm not aware of any such trend. Do you have statistics to back up that claim?

I'm not a fan of porn. It doesn't offend me or disgust me, I'm just not into it. Just because it offends and disgusts you doesn't make it an unnatural thing. Most of nature is offensive and disgusting. If you doubt, just look at the hagfish.

Regulating sexuality (your words) should be far more offensive and disgusting to you than anything consenting adults do behind closed doors with a director, camera (wo)man, stage hands and lighting specialists watching.

i'm having a hard time making the causal connection between porn and what sound like malicious, unsolicited sex acts. it seems like an impossible to prove or even research theory...

from my perspective, rapists or molesters seek some sort of need-fulfillment that goes beyond what can easily be provided via imagination (in the form of pornographic fantasies). at least in the porn i've ever viewed, i'm not 'treated' to seemingly vicious sex acts. most of the time it strikes me as unrealistic sex with the exaggerated 'throes of passion' and needless wacky positioning. at any rate, i'm inclined to believe that people who regularly watch porn don't go outside afterwards looking for someone to abuse and mimic the recently-viewed fantasies. in fact, i think suggesting that is just absurd.

.. the whole, 'columbine massacre was caused by video games' fallacy .. but applied to porn. i think hunter s thompson hit on this in a great tongue-in-cheek one-liner: "KNOW YOUR DOPEFIEND... his pants will be crusted with semen from constantly jacking off when he can't find a rape victim."

on a separate note, i think it's also interesting and appropriate that the same genre (burlesque dance) can elicit ranging responses. that's precisely why it is art, in the sense that modern art can often be provocative. some will say these dances empower the woman. it's her tease, it's her show, she is in control; there is no expectation of nudity like a strip club (meat market), and it would be unfair to consider the two together. on the flip side, some will say this is a degradation of her being: reduction to a 'sex object'. i mean, i hate to think of myself being reduced to one particular aspect of my personality, but this is precisely what happens when i go to work. they only care that i write code.

well, she *is* at work after all...

I aim to please.

In reply to this comment by thepinky:
Now, THAT made me laugh. Props to you for making me laugh at myself.

>> ^gwiz665:
It dances so prettily...

>> ^Farhad2000:
Your hypothesis that porn is related to sexual assault is very slim. The argument is the same as saying that watching violence on TV makes people violent. Both acts occur naturally, even with the removal of porn and violence such acts will exist.
I live in the Arab world, women here wear hijabs, pant suits, and long skirts. There is very little sexual stimulus. The internet here is filtered. Most lay men cannot access any pron what so ever. Yet sexual crimes here are just as prevalent. Especially the gang rape of maids, young boys and other forms of sexual abuse.
I think you connect the act of sex, and porn and sexual abuse together. I believe sexual abuse is a expression of power over an individual, the act of molestation that fulfills a certain dark seated sexual desire. There are countless accounts of serial killers who only got sexual satisfaction upon killing their victims, then masturbating on them, or necrophilia. Most of these people were psychopaths to begin with, how can one imply that what they did was because they say watched porn when they were young.
I think you underestimate the human nature, and it's ability to lay blame anywhere but themselves. People who commit sex crimes always say that it was abuse they received or porn they viewed, they can never admit that maybe they are simply are inherently skewed and like nothing more then raping or touching little girls.
There is too much of that in society now, I have a problem X, its not me that is at fault its society or practice Y.
I don't know a thing about Arab culture, but that argument doesn't hold water for me because the causes of sexual crime in the Arab world may be completely different. For example, the lack of sexual stimulus and the repression of women's sexuality are possible causes. As you said, rape is about control. I think that in a culture where women are controlled, crimes of control are more likely to happen. I'm guessing that many sex crimes in Arab nations stem from the culture's distortion of sex, just as ours do. Their repression of sexuality in women may not be heathy, either. I really can't say, but I think we ought to reach a happy medium.

I wasn't implying that all necrophiliacs are what they are because of a porn problem. I'm not even saying that all sexual abusers are consumers of porn. I'm saying that porn CAN and DOES cause sexual problems, and I have seen it occur with my own two eyes. The person in question is not a psychopath. He is a good person. Any problems that he had when he was younger stemmed from an exposure to porn at a young age. I am positive that he would not have done what he did if he hadn't been looking at porn since age 7. He was an innocent kid. Of course, that's just one example and it doesn't always turn out that way. But say he already had a tendency toward sexual crime. Do you think porn would encourage or stifle that tendency? A society that teaches a healthy regulation of sexual activity is more likely to help that guy than a society that teaches him to masturbate to porn with increasing frequency. Just my opinion.

Not all molestation is about control. Rape, probably. I think that molestation is sometimes simply about what gets the person off.

And what of the problems of our society? What DO they stem from? Are we supposed to completely refrain from assigning blame to any of our own practices? Are we supposed to allow our society to deteriorate because we can't get to the root causes of our problems and fix them? There is a general trend on the Sift toward the attitude that the fewer controls and restraints on behavior, the better. That nothing matters except pleasure and freedom. I just don't agree with that philosophy. Sometimes your freedoms hurt other people, and in order to be moral, people have to sacrifice a few freedoms. Porn doesn't help, it hurts.

Now, THAT made me laugh. Props to you for making me laugh at myself.

>> ^gwiz665:
It dances so prettily...