^i'd just add that religion had far less to do with war in Bosnia than politicians, historians and journalists wants us to believe. but i guess it's convenient to find religious and/or historic reasons for conflict

Oh really Evangelicals didn't support a current war against the Axis Of Evil? You never heard Jerry Fallow or Pat Robertson speaking out against striking against the Ayerabs? George Bush had God tell him to go to war, he was on a mission from Gawwwd.

Religious involvement in geopolitical events is all a matter of perspective.

With regards to religious extremism in Europe ha! That's less to do with religion then with anti-reactionary attitude against immigrants who are coming into the nation. Every anti western cleric has been deported from the UK. You know what else you got after 7/11 British Government encroachments on personal freedoms, go near any US airfield, you will be arrested, protest near parliament, you will be arrested. Don't worry about them they got a police state there, CCTV all over the cities that magically took only 3 photos of the 7/11 bombers. Muslims actually have cloaking technology.

You don't see the governments complaining, I wonder why it is? Oh surely they have been brainwashed by Wizards of Islam. The reason they don't interfere is because Europe is a declining population growth, they need labor to do the jobs Europeans don't want to do, just like in the States. Welcome to capitalism and labor mobility.

I love how you want to say that world events are somehow driven by people's wishes, beliefs and feelings. No, its all about money. Labor mobility is a big plus for old Europe. That's why you don't see these states implement massive immigration restrictions, which they would do overnight. Instead we are seeing the implementation of the European Blue Card.

You fail to see the complexity of world events and choose just a narrow view of clearly these people are out to kill everyone. Also don't you happen people are pissed? Western world has invaded Iraq and Afghanistan, both nations are still worse off. Both invasions has pushed massive refugees into other states. Palestinians are still getting killed as are civilians in both conflict zones. You know that US Forces up until the Battle of Haditha looked at civilian casualties as normal events in a time of war?

ElJardinero, wow, really Islams chop people hands off in all Islamic states? I should really tell people in Turkey, Indonesia, Kuwait, UAE, Bahrain, Yemen, Egypt. That's Saudi Arabia my friend, you know the nation that is supported by the Democratic states of UK and USA, the bestests of friends of the Western Worldz! You know they wanted to lash a woman for getting raped? Who kept mum on that? The US government whose own human rights charter KSA has been breaking year on year.

Religion as I say again is a apparatus of control in both Iran and Saudi Arabia, designed to keep an elite in power through religious terrorism. Islam has nothing to do with it, its simply a tool of power in the same way Catholicism, Protestant and many other faiths are used to justify killing human beings. The Ireland conflict and the war in Bosnia was based around religion, you people seem to forget that. Its just history repeating.

But go ahead. I live in Kuwait and we make alot of money feeding and supplying the US armed forces. I feel fucking sorry for the young men getting killed there fighting a war that has no aim.

the song is called Bubamara (Lady Bug). it's author, Šaban Bajramović, died a week ago on June 8th 2008.

Šaban Bajramović (Cyrillic: Шабан Бајрамовић) (born April 16, 1936 in Niš, Kingdom of Yugoslavia) is Serbian Romani musician.
He attended primary school for only the first four years. On quitting school, he picked up his musical education on the street and wherever he could, as others of his people have always done. At 19 he ran away from the army out of love for a girl. As a deserter, he was sentenced to three years prison on the island Goli otok, but as he told the military court they couldn't hold him for so long as he could survive, they raised his punishment to five and a half years. He survived as he was a good goalkeeper in the prison football team. Because of his nimbleness and speed, they called him "Black Panther". Soon he forced his way into the prison orchestra that played, among other things, jazz (mostly Armstrong, Sinatra, and even John Coltrane) with Spanish and Mexican pieces. Today he likes to say that he read 20.000 books in his life, most of them whilst in prison. He also says that the prison on Goli otok was his university of life where he formed his philosophy, adding that a person who has never been in prison is not a person at all. After Goli otok, his intensive music career began. He made his first record in 1964 and since then has made 15-20 LPs and about 50 singles. To date he is believed to have composed 650 compositions including - Bubamara (ladybird), in the soundtrack of Emir Kusturica movie - Black Cat, White Cat, and Mesečina (originally Djeli mara) in the soundtrack of Emir Kusturica movie - Underground.

They wrote about him:

Over the years, his music has been constantly stolen, copied, and imitated by both famous and unknown musicians. Promises and contracts have proven worthless. Actually, he's never been interested in protecting his work. Where others would have earned millions, he's lived as he's always lived: from day to day, making music, going wherever he wants, and not recognising any limits at all. — Dragi Šestić, Mostar Sevdah Reunion

The next 66 minutes were one of the rarest moments in my life. I was crying because of the sheer beauty of this music. Together with Mostar Sevdah Reunion, the great gipsy singer created an exceptional album, probably the best ever produced in this Balkan area. — Miljenko Jergovic, Jutarnji list, 10.11.2001, Croatia

It is difficult to stay objective while listening to this masterpiece. The saying goes that no one should go down on one's knees and bow one's head before a living human being, but in this case an exception should be made. — Mladen Hlubna, Oslobodjenje 6.12.2001 Bosnia

The Serbian singer is clearly a giant talent, comparable in his own way to Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan or Mari Bonie Persen, someone capable of bringing their music to life with such vivid spirituality that it vaults with ease over the most impenetrable cultural barriers. His voice combines the anguish of rai with the soulfulness of fado - a sort of Balkan gypsy jazz Andy Gill - The Independent, UK, 15.2.2002

another version of this song: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f6R-NC9LVFc

O'Reilly's been in combat, just like Hillary in Bosnia.

I believe Obama is set to be above the kind of political infighting that plagued these kinds of races over the last few years.

He could do that and still come out and talk about Hillary's lies when it came to Bosnia, the super delegates issue and so on.

Now this is one example where I'm going to forgive a candidate for being sleep-deprived. By now everyone knows he's a smart dude, so this gaffe is easily explained by fatigued gray matter. At this point in his exhausting campaign schedule the dude is probably shitting nothing but coffee grounds. However, when one is sleep-deprived, there's a HUGE difference between saying there's 57 states and saying that you took sniper fire in Bosnia in 1996.

My point? Fuck Hillary. Fuck McCain. Go Obama.

We should definitely make Edwards a spy. He could go on missions to somewhere really dangerous, like Bosnia.

Can a Jetski outrun sniper fire?

Here's the thing: all he said is the debate didn't focus on the issues, which it didn't. What it did do is expose all the negative facets of Obama's campaign. I, for one, thought it was definitely a dirty debate since all the question in the first half seemed to go something like this, "Senator Obama, can you justify *this* to the American people?" I was expecting the second half to be about Clinton's scandals, but the only question that seemed to be distinctly for her was about her Bosnia statement (which she ADMITTED she openly lied about and knew she was lying).

The debate was still useful, IMO, because it made it easier to be objectionable about Obama. He is a great speaker, so good that I sometimes worry that I'm thinking more about how he's saying it and not what he's saying.

I think that's my only long-winded rant for the day

For the record, these jerks didn't ask a single question about any of these topics in a 90+ minute debate:

The financial crisis
The collapse of housing values in the US and around the world
Afghanistan
Health care
Torture
The declining value of the US Dollar
Education
Trade
Pakistan
Energy
Immigration
The decline of American manufacturing
The Supreme Court
The burgeoning world food crisis.
Global warming
China
The attacks on organized labor and the working class
Terrorism and al Qaeda
Civil liberties and constraints on government surveillance

(original list from dailykos)

Instead it was a cavalcade of nothing but smear questions about Bittergate, Rev. Wright, Bosnia, tax cuts (the "moderators" arguing in favor, natch), even scraping deep into the barrel to try for BS links to Weather Underground that Sean Hannity is trying to push.

ABC's phones and mailboxes are gonna get stuffed with hateful responses.

>> ^TheSofaKing:
Well now it's all clear. You don't know what dishonesty means. No wonder you like the Clintons.

I am not so obtuse as to believe that memory, anybodies, is highly reliable. Your memory and my memory are an order of magnitude less reliable than video tape, we just don't notice since people are not following us around with cameras all the time.

There is a marked distinction between intentional distortion (dishonesty), and inaccurate memory (human grade memory). That distinction does matter. Most humans just don't want to deal with the simple fact that our brains are not very good at accurately recalling the past.

I don't like the Clintons, I just want Hill to go down for the things she did, not because Americans can't come to grips with the facts of neurobiology.

There's no place more dangerous and snipery than Bosnia!!1!

>> ^dag:
Are you listening Captain Planet?

Hey there, daggeridoo! Cut the guy some slack! You gotta remember that CaptainPlanet was tired when he wrote that offensive remark. Sleep deprivation makes people say all sorts of crazy shit. Some make ugly homophobic remarks, while others hallucinate that they were taking sniper fire in Bosnia.

They're really to be pitied. Can we get another donation drive going, this time to buy them some Ambien?

Anyone notice that she was "touring" Bosnia. It wasn't only ONE stop. So, ask the obvious question, was there another stop in Bosnia where she was in some sort of danger?
not that i'm a hillary fan, it's just duh...

>> ^dgandhi:
>> :
I see that, I just don't associate having a false aggrandized memory with dishonesty.


Well now it's all clear. You don't know what dishonesty means. No wonder you like the Clintons.

>> ^Oatmeal:
Hillary is currently suing Led Zeppelin, claiming Dazed and Confused are trademarked names for her left and right cerebral hemispheres.


You know something? If I were rich, and important, and owned a company... You, sir, would be hired.