>> ^Ryjkyj:

>> ^ChaosEngine:
Nope, there's no "alarmists". Man made climate change is real. Outside of a bunch of morons (fox, qm and the like) who don't understand the science, there's no debate. The rest of us have accepted the facts of the science and are trying to figure out what to do about it.

>> ^criticalthud:
i think we should no longer suffer fools on this topic

While I agree with you guys, there are still fools on both sides. While the climate deniers scare me, what also scares me are the people who would use the fact of man-made climate change to their own ends. Not to mention the silly fucks who think we need to just rush headlong into a solution. I think the general scientific consensus is also that we need to be very careful about the ways we try to manipulate the environment to fix our problems.


Regarding the solution, you're absolutely right. I'm really not sure what the solution is, hence my "trying to figure out what to do about it". At a small scale there are lots of things we can do that will make the world a better place generally, reducing waste, being more energy efficient, encouraging public transport or biking, but I have yet to see a solution that addresses the larger national and corporate scale problems.

>> ^ChaosEngine:
Nope, there's no "alarmists". Man made climate change is real. Outside of a bunch of morons (fox, qm and the like) who don't understand the science, there's no debate. The rest of us have accepted the facts of the science and are trying to figure out what to do about it.


>> ^criticalthud:

i think we should no longer suffer fools on this topic


While I agree with you guys, there are still fools on both sides. While the climate deniers scare me, what also scares me are the people who would use the fact of man-made climate change to their own ends. Not to mention the silly fucks who think we need to just rush headlong into a solution. I think the general scientific consensus is also that we need to be very careful about the ways we try to manipulate the environment to fix our problems.

>> ^alcom:

This is a case of one group of alarmists calling out another group of alarmists.

Nope, there's no "alarmists". Man made climate change is real. Outside of a bunch of morons (fox, qm and the like) who don't understand the science, there's no debate. The rest of us have accepted the facts of the science and are trying to figure out what to do about it.

It's the same as the evolution/creationism "debate". There isn't one. There is only the accepted science and a manufactured controversy by right wing loons.

>> ^alcom:

If the scientists a correct and our consumption is putting us on a path of accelerating climate change on a scale never before seen in the history of our planet, they life on this planet will end. I would tend to err on the side of caution for this one.

Emphasis mine. Actually, it won't. Life will adapt and evole. Humans, OTOH, are fucked.

This is a case of one group of alarmists calling out another group of alarmists. The big difference is the cost of being wrong.

If the conservative view is correct and we're riding a natural heat wave that will even itself out, then we're wasting money trying to stop it and we could all be a little more prosperous if we weren't bogged down by recycling and bike lanes.

If the scientists a correct and our consumption is putting us on a path of accelerating climate change on a scale never before seen in the history of our planet, then life on this planet will end. I would tend to err on the side of caution for this one.

>> ^quantumushroom:

The warming alarmists have gone from doctoring data to preachin' propaganda though a children's cartoon? That's about right.

I live in georgia.

On Dec 16th, 1997 the first year that I lived here. It was about 41 degrees outside.

Effin' cold.

On Dec 16th, 2011 last week. It was 72 degrees.

JEsus most be making it slowly warmer ever winter. You know, until he turns the entire southeast into a lake of fire for all the homo sinning that went on last night.. in that lesbian club I was at.

...



>> ^quantumushroom:

The warming alarmists have gone from doctoring data to preachin' propaganda though a children's cartoon? That's about right.

>> ^quantumushroom:

The warming alarmists have gone from doctoring data to preachin' propaganda though a children's cartoon? That's about right.


When scientists make everyday things work like say the Internet you're fine with it. As soon as they talk about you living a bit more "conservatively" they're complete idiots.

The warming alarmists have gone from doctoring data to preachin' propaganda though a children's cartoon? That's about right.

1) somewhere exists a group of scientists who know the precise temperature the earth is supposed to be.


Well, no. Precision isn't the issue, accuracy is. When building a climate model we don't need a precise answer for temperature at a location, we need accurate (though perhaps fairly imprecise) temperatures for many locations over time. This may seem pedantic, but you've wandered into discussing science so you might as well learn the terms.

Do you really think there would ever come a day when the alarmists concede they were wrong, especially after establishing a world climatocracy of near-absolute power?


Sorry, you're talking about some dystopian future ruled by environmentalists? Are you worried about this coming to be? Do you look around at the world and shudder at the enormous power environmentalists are getting? I mean, for whatever you think of climate change theory, surely you have to agree that the climate change movement has been pretty much completely ineffectual at getting anything significant changed or regulated. Near-absolute power, even imagining the passing of quite a bit of time and the world getting disastrously more environmentally conscious, is a bit of a stretch.

Look, I disagree with the "stereotypical environmentalist" on a lot of things - and I think many environmental programs and restrictions and whatever are pointless (recycling, random painful acts of conservation, etc..). But whether or not you like environmentalists or think they'd do a good job running things doesn't effect whether the proposition in question is true.

Me? I think the balance of evidence is currently on the side of global warming becoming a problem in the next 100 years. I think the evidence is strong enough to prompt further research and certain kinds of actions. And I don't mean cutting automotive emissions by 20%. That is really pointless. Cars burning gas is a turd that we need to flush completely and soon (burning oil at the current rate has enough problems, global warming or not) - not slowly polish.

In general, I think that good approaches to fighting global warming (mostly new energy sources) are net wins whether or not they're related to global warming. Nobody is going to regret stimulating the economy by spending on research, technology development, and manufacturing. And if it turns out global warming was happening for some other reason (or not happening at all) we'll be happy to have our Mr. Fusion powered air conditioners and holodecks.

>> ^quantumushroom:

Another defector:
Nobel Prize-Winning Physicist Resigns Over Global Warming

If man-made global warming is really happening, then you have to agree:
1) somewhere exists a group of scientists who know the precise temperature the earth is supposed to be.
2) these scientists can somehow "set" this temperature by taxing and regulating industries.

BONUS: Do you really think there would ever come a day when the alarmists concede they were wrong, especially after establishing a world climatocracy of near-absolute power? Ha.


Second time of saying this to you - who has ever claimed to know the exact right temperature the earth is "meant" to be? It doesn't even make sense as a statement. "Meant" to be how, in what way? You must be quoting something a knowlessman has said.

Second time of saying this to you as well - you have the wrong target. The politicians are manipulating "climate change" into a money-spinner. But that doesn't mean that climate change is wrong, it means the politicians are wrong.

They and the oil barons are manipulating you and you owe it to yourself to go out and independantly educate yourself. The data is there qm, and it is abundantly clear that there is an anomalous spike in temperature which presents itself around mid 1900s. The only thing left to discuss is why it is happening, and david mitchell is suggesting that no rational human being would simply do nothing when there is even the vaguest chance that we are contributing to the anomaly.

Hate the politicians, not the science they use and abuse to manipulate you with. I hope you listen this time, but i know you won't.

1) somewhere exists a group of scientists who know the precise temperature the earth is supposed to be.
---Not the precise temperature--the average temperature.

2) these scientists can somehow "set" this temperature by taxing and regulating industries.
---Don't need to set the temperature--just try to lessen the rate of the obvious temperature rise.

>> ^quantumushroom:

Another defector:
Nobel Prize-Winning Physicist Resigns Over Global Warming

If man-made global warming is really happening, then you have to agree:
1) somewhere exists a group of scientists who know the precise temperature the earth is supposed to be.
2) these scientists can somehow "set" this temperature by taxing and regulating industries.

BONUS: Do you really think there would ever come a day when the alarmists concede they were wrong, especially after establishing a world climatocracy of near-absolute power? Ha.

Another defector:

Nobel Prize-Winning Physicist Resigns Over Global Warming



If man-made global warming is really happening, then you have to agree:

1) somewhere exists a group of scientists who know the precise temperature the earth is supposed to be.

2) these scientists can somehow "set" this temperature by taxing and regulating industries.


BONUS: Do you really think there would ever come a day when the alarmists concede they were wrong, especially after establishing a world climatocracy of near-absolute power? Ha.

>> ^quantumushroom:

The enviro-Statist alarmists failed to ensnare public opinion, proving once again the people are smarter than kenyan kings.


Why do you talk like this? If you're really voicing your opinions, you're only hurting your case by filling every comment with rambling about Kenyans and Statists and Keynesians. Let me help you out.

>> ^quantumushroom:

Assuming for a moment that man-made global warming is demonstrably proven.
1) The socialist scientitians claim they know the precise temperature (range) that the earth is supposed to be over the next 100 years and
Scientists believe that they can determine roughly the temperature that the Earth would tend to be at, absent human influence, and that there is an ideal temperature range for the way human civilization is presently organized and

2) they can set this desired temperature through taxation and regulation of industry.

that regulations and taxes on emissions and other things can provide an economic incentive for industries to develop systems that have less of an environmental impact.

And I'm the one who's insane? Insanely entertaining, yes. Willing to wreck the global economy further than these Keynesian retards already have? Nope.

I believe that regulations intended to prevent global warming will hurt economies and industries worse than doing nothing. An impartial group should study the potential effects of both before we make sweeping decisions.

All I ever get out of these debates is that one side is fighting to pollute and destroy in the name of profit. It's their right to do so, says god and liberty, and capitalism, etc.

Anybody who disagrees is a big government, nanny state, socialist hippy, tree hugging devil worshipper.
I think if Jesus came back and made a fuss about murdering off chunks of the natural world for cash, he'd be disappeared like Jimmy Hoffa.

Alarmist? Socialist? Communist? Intellectual? Elite? Community organizer? Professor at a podium?

Sharing is bad, and smart people are evil, and this planet is disposable, amen.

every scientist that views climate change as FACT is an "enviro-Statist alarmist"? that's the MAJORITY of the scientific community btw.

i so wish people understood the concept of the scientific method and peer review
if they did, you'd see as a whole, the scientific community and alarmist don't really sit together that well

even more depressing, is most climate change deniers i know, believe this to be some sort economic conspiracy by liberals... y'know those pesky conspirators who are only separated by nation, geography, language, politics, and economics to name a few

while a few "scientists" who deny climate change, a MUCH smaller total number, with a LARGER representation in corporate interests are the bearers of truth... because they, spread out over fewer demagraphics, are obviously much less prone to influence of money/greed

it's the conspiracy of the unaffiliated majority vs the affiliated minority... and some people can't see the irony in their argument

sort of like FOX news talking about how video games are promoting a liberal, anti-corporate agenda through the despicable use of fear

quite literally, there are people out there who would believe the sky isn't blue, if it comes from the RIGHT people

toss them the Kool-Aid flavored religious zealotry... you know they want it

The enviro-Statist alarmists failed to ensnare public opinion, proving once again the people are smarter than kenyan kings.