I have to make an addendum to my last reply to Enoch.

All people who make the claim "god does not exist" are atheists technically
All people who make the claim "we cant know if god exists but I doubt all of it", are also atheists.
All people who make the claim "we can't know if god exists but I believe this one" are either theists or deists (depending on the claim).
All people who simply say "I don't believe" are also atheists.

This is to say that the claim "there are no gods", and the statement "I don't believe in any gods" are not the same yet both people, due to their lack of belief in gods are both technically atheists.

I say this because it's important to note that being atheistic in your beliefs doesn't require anyone to make the claim that there are no gods. Atheism is not a belief structure because it does not define what is or is not, it's simply a position taken to a presented claim.

then call it what it is..agnostic.
which literal translation means "not-knowing".
i am not attacking sam harris's premise.
it's his execution that is lacking.

ok,let me try it this way.
i am a man of faith.nothing you say or do will change that.
the only problem you would ever have with me is if i tried to convince you my faith should be yours also.
but i never try.i never attempt to impose my belief on you.
that by itself should suffice,but what if i am a reputable scientist?
would you feel obligated to help me see the light of reason?
would the fact i am a man a faith color or cloud my theories and conclusions in your eyes?
could you still be objective about my work knowing i had a belief system entirely different from your own?
or would you villify my work as false and unreasonable due to the fact i was a man of faith?
make it your mission to help me see reason,see the light of logic and abandon my silly,childish ways?
what tools would you use to accomplish that goal?
there is a name for that.
we call them evangelicals.
truth is a relative perception.
i agree with sam harris on many things,but when militant atheists use the same tools of the very entity they abhor,they become the thing they despise.
narrow and close-minded.
atheists core problem is with dogma and the church.as it should be,these are tangible texts,documents and written addendums.
they should be debated and argued ad nauseum,and all contradictory points should be brought to light for the hypocritical nonsense they are.
there is honor is rebuking a doctrinal system that stunts the imagination and excretes fear.
but to be just as absolute in righteousness as a fundamentalists.
can breed the same stagnation of mind as any biblical fundamentalist.
any form of absolutist thinking is dangerous,not only for the individual but for society as a whole.which is what i believe atheists are against,but so are people of faith against.
we have been tolerant long enough,and while we slept,holding our philosophy of tolerance and understanding,those with an agenda using dogma and doctrine have exploited the weak and ill educated to foment a massive fundamentalist movement.
based on bad theology and even worse theosophy.
we all need to stand against that,because if we dont we may find ourselves in another "dark ages".
this,in my opinion,is the real crux for atheists.
it is the same crux for many people of faith.
do you think a person of faith,who is not a fundamentalist, can look at the "creation museum" and not cringe when they see jesus riding a dinosaur?
it is preposterous and silly and not a little frightening that 30% of america believe that the earth is only 6000 yrs old.
but that is the charlatans,the used car salesmen of salvation abusing the fear,and ignorance to perpetuate their own devices.
atheists see that,but so do people of faith.
dr kenneth miller of brown university destroyed the latest I.D and creationists attempt to put creationism into the science class.
http://www.videosift.com/video/Is-Hearing-Both-Sides-Fair
he is a roman catholic.
my point to all this is simple.
call it what it really is=agnostic.
because when it comes right down to it,
you dont know,and neither do i.
and as long as i am not imposing my beliefs on you,nor you me.
there should never be a problem.
the real problem is fundamentalism and the manipulation of religious dogma to influence and control the weak and ill educated to perpetuate a system of papal dominance that lost its relevance a long time ago.
in that respect,we are the same.

Much as I love the discussion about before/after, I think you've missed the point.

What she is trying to say is that the universe wasn't there before the big bang - ie, that the universe was created at the time of the big bang rather than something exploding and filling the the void that we call the universe.

Even the addendum video added above doesn't help - it shows black "space" being filled by the debris from an explosion, again giving the impression that the universe was already in place but void of anything. The original video goes some way to showing "outside" of the universe and how it was created (and grew/wobbled) because of the Big Bang.

That's what I think, anyway.

Also, this is an interesting addendum:

I believe that's one of the weapons that are, according to one of the addendums to the Geneva Conventions, not supposed to be used against personnel, but only against vehicles (like .50 cal machineguns). I could be wrong, though.

If everyone like me stopped working, you'd be living in poverty too. I didn't say I was going to stop working...just stop paying taxes. By the time socialism is in full swing in this country I'll be retired and you'll still be slaving 40+ hours a week to pay all my bills.

Cheers.

>> ^peggedbea
i completely support your idea to drop out and live in abject poverty. maybe then you wouldnt be such a whiny objectivist selfish little bitch who lacks the perspective to have a relevant fucking take on anything.

As an addendum, I wonder how much that ER bill is when your son has an asthma attack? Surely you are present, and can see what exactly they are doing (giving him a anti-inflammatory, likely a steroid, either intravenously or via a respirator). I wonder how much those shots or respirators would cost if they were freely available? $5, $10? How hard would they be to administer at home? The fact is, you really don't have any business going to an emergency room for an asthma attack.

I haven't emptied my trap in a while, and I recall dropping a few things down there though I can't remember what they are anymore.

Quick warning for anyone though. Never ever use your shop vac anywhere near a sewer drain. Those ones in the basement floor are trouble. That's very very bad. It takes a long time and is very unpleasant to clean out your vacuum, you have to buy a new filter, and the basement will be uninhabitable for a while and possibly explode.

Anyways, I think the pantyhose might be a fine enough mesh to keep water out though, so maybe you could use a normal vacuum cleaner.

Addendum: I agree that it's probably easier to just use a wrench. Getting out the shopvac, plugging it in, finding some hosiery, and then putting it all away again probably takes longer anyways.

addendum to VS' FAQ: "it's ok for people with no personalities of their own to create multiple accounts, fuck with other sifters and use *gay tag indiscriminately — as long as they regularly rub it in people's faces"

>> ^Psychologic:
Your comment is written like you disagree with something in my post, but I can't tell which part you're disagreeing with.


No, not disagreeing.

Just didn't read your comment all the way through.

Consider it less of a response than an addendum, or a footnote.

I, for one, would be in favor of removing the cuffs - they've served their purpose.

Let's make this Sift whole once more!



Addendum: Thinker - I probably would phrase your request for removal as such and not as a 'demand'...

Happy Comment #25, Addendum B-Alpha

I skipped over a bunch of numbers in my first comment, and nobody noticed and/or cared!

Interesting addendum....

Before you all start the craziness, I present that this video does not violate the rules of the sift, as stated in: §30 titled: Posting Guidelines, ¶ 3, and in the addendum below this paragraph.

Note: The presence of human fatality is acceptable and not considered "snuff" if presented as a limited portion of a lengthy educational, informative news report or documentary. Our definition of "snuff" does include but is not exclusive to any short clip in which a human fatality occurs whether or not any victims are actually visible on camera.

So just a quick addendum... I just spent my two power points on some *.begs, and now my power point recharge time reset itself back to 48 hours (before this it was counting down to an hour and change left). Anyway... I'll keep an eye on it.

In reply to this comment by lucky760:
That's what I was guessing (and hoping) but when you got the 2 points your countdown timer still showed 18 hours until your normal 1 point recharge.



Go figure.

Thanks for clearing that up. I'll watch them ASAP, which will be tomorrow at earliest. Gotta rest my weary bones now.

Sorry I'm not one of your prized sifters, but I guess I'm on your B-list?

In reply to this comment by nomino:
In reply to this comment by kronosposeidon:
And....what link and what message would those be?

I guess I didn't send you the link after all. I sent out this link to all of my prized sifters
2. http://www.videosift.com/video/Economic-Hitmen-Zeitgeist-Addendum-MUST-WATCH-PLEASE
but I meant to send this one
3. http://www.videosift.com/video/Economic-Hitmen-Assassinations-in-Ecuador-Panama-Guatemala
in response to this video:
1. http://www.videosift.com/video/Obama-Defining-Moment-Ad
You should watch video 1,2,3 in order to be enlightened. Thank you and Cheers