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Hey first sifted video. No more big red P. Hooray

Ah but I bet you're one of the people that advocates the murder of human souls in the womb. if so you're demented. you're literally more worried about food than your own species.

Well, I must admit you have a point. I don't think that way, growing up around animals that were food, and doing the work ourselves, not hiding from it, but most people don't have that experience.
My opinion is that ending the intolerable suffering some animals are subjected to is more important than ending meat eating, so I suggest trying to convince people to use smaller, family farmed meats that are more likely to have proper, 'humane' treatment and death....but not by shaming them with images of abused animals or blaming them for eating the wrong thing. That only gets people defensive. Simply explaining how the better treatment creates a MUCH better, tastier, 'cleaner' (of hormones and anti-biotics) meat that's worth the extra effort, and extra cost, should work better. Appeal to people's unwavering belief that they deserve better, and steer them in a direction that also works for your goal.
I don't think you'll ever convince a high percentage of meat eaters to go vegetarian, much less vegan, and I think that guilt and shame make people want to fight about the issue rather than do anything. But that just, like, my opinion, man. ;-)

All this said, I've realized that I'm fighting against my own interests, because if most people went vegan, meat would be much cheaper and better quality (it would have to be to sell). Oh well, not the first time. ;-)


EDIT: I've just realized something else. You should never use the 'we don't kill people like that' argument, because we absolutely do kill people when it suits our purposes, like prisoner executions and wars, and also including for food (in a way) in places and times where societal pressures hadn't made eating people 'taboo'.

Oh no, I'm not feeling guilt or shame, but thanks for the concern. ;-)

I'm saying that inflicting guilt and shame are the obvious intents of your posts, even if not intentionally. You are trying to 'educate' people so they know to feel guilty or ashamed of how they live/eat, in the hope that that guilt/shame will get them to stop eating meat.
I think (I hope) that people who've never thought about the fact that meat is an animal are few and far between, and that most people make an informed choice. I've gone farther in that sense than most since my family raised many types of meat, humanely, and even butchered our own when I was young, but I give people the benefit of a doubt that they aren't just eating meat and not connecting it with an animal. I'm sure a few are, but I think not many.

I find it insulting to imply that people haven't thought it through...but I know I'm a weirdo so perhaps I'm the only one insulted and I should just shut up. ;-)

Why DOES the worm talk like a lamb? ;-)

No problems at all. I used to hate vegans with a passion, I'd be the first person to shout them down in public even at the expense of dignity So I know what it's like to be on both sides of the concept.

There are also definitely a good number of dickhead vegans, who use it as a social status, and they are often the loudest, so I'm not surprised that people automatically take insult to anything with the vegan label attached to it.

Yes, killing for no reason other than to kill is bad...IMO. Crushing it would make it unusable, and be scary and painful. Life is fear and pain, but that's no reason to add to it unnecessarily for nothing.
I'm sure there are people out there who disagree with that. ;-)

OK, true, that is what you said, but I fail to grasp the difference.
Once an animal is dead, it cares just as little as one that was never alive, no?
As long as the method of execution is fear and pain free, I don't see the problem.

Killing a 364 day old baby wasn't called murder historically....and many people do call abortion murder, so it's not cut and dry. Neither is this subject, people's opinions about life, death, pain, animals, etc all go into the equation. There is no right and wrong answer, nor is there a single way a person should 'feel' about it, nor should they be made to feel guilty if they don't agree with any one set of feelings.

Interesting.
That's not how it goes here.
Our system is just plain ridiculous...I'll TRY to explain a little as I understand it.

We start with primaries to choose 'nominees'. Each candidate must either declare a party affiliation (not JUST republican or democrat, but mostly) or run as independent. Each party decides how their primary is set up....so now it gets nutty because the democratic primary in one state may have different rules from the republican primary in that same state, or different from other democratic primaries in other states! WOW.

The idea is for one candidate in each party to 'win' enough delegates (as determined by the primary votes in all states) to elect them the NOMINEE in the party convention this summer, which then puts them on the ballot in November. If no one wins a majority, the whole thing goes insane again and the convention (in differing ways for different parties) decides who their candidate will be. The votes don't just transfer, but they CAN....if say a candidate drops out and tells his delegates to vote for someone else...but they don't HAVE to! They can vote for whomever they like if their candidate has dropped out, but usually follow orders.
All this is just to figure out who will be on the ballot in November! Then we get to do the electoral college thing that's also impossible to comprehend.
I hope that helps and didn't just make it more confusing.
Newt

That idea came directly from ahimsa, (who I've been going back and forth with all day) who specifically said today that convincing people to adopt veganism is about 'social justice'.
I'm sincerely sorry if I attributed that sentiment to you inappropriately.

What I find insulting is the sudden influx of a number of vocal, shaming, guilt spreading vegans here trying to make everyone think just like they do or else feel ashamed and like they're terrible, evil, abusive people...or unthinking idiots. I'll only speak for myself, but I don't want to see that here.
You're welcome to your opinion, and welcome to share it, but when you start telling other people what THEY should or must do/feel/think, you've crossed a line into social justice warrioring, and I'll rail against it every time I notice that happen. When you add multiple propaganda links, the bile will build quickly.

I read the update. It gave some insight to your thought process, but didn't solve my issue.
You're mistaken, and it seemed a bit narcissistic, to think everyone that doesn't agree with you must just be naïve and has never considered this subject thoughtfully. The anger stems from THAT (apparent) insulting thought, not from some internal logic struggle about loving some animals and eating others (or maybe loving AND eating some), it's anger at people telling others how to think, how to act, how to feel, how to eat....and vitriol when the reasoning behind that direction comes from questionable at BEST, completely discredited at worst, internet propaganda posing as science. THAT is a big pet peeve of mine, no matter what the subject may be, and I've been dealing with it all day long.
It may have been inappropriate to lump you in with him, again I apologize if the complaint didn't fit.

I'm starting to understand why people respond to vegans by saying "I'm just going to eat more meat to spite you".
You guys aren't making any friends here with this non stop insulting social justice warrioring.
If you feel the need to constantly try to make people feel bad about their lives, go back to YouTube or Reddit.

Don't forget to vote for your own video.

There is no delete function if you are referring to your comment. Best you can do is edit the comment.