Equity is for benefits, not responsibilities.

@Psychologic, I'm not getting your meaning. Was it my reference to chattel? Unfortunately, at some point in human events there were some people who held a popular belief that other people should be held as property because of whatever arbitrary collection of differences. It's disgusting to us now, but then I'm sure it was as common as the rain.

As an aside, I still open the doors and pay for the majority of dates for my gf - we've been together for nearly 7 years so it's not like we're in a honeymoon phase either. I tend to want to be chivalrous, but find that is causes a great deal of cognitive dissonance, because I also believe in pure equality. It's me struggling with my adult developed reason over my adolescent indoctrination.

Just don't go into the side. They will move once they realize you won't. I often have these tiny power struggles with people when there's little room or one of us have to "change lanes" on the side walk. If you walk as if you're not going to move, either by looking away - ignoring them - or looking straight at them, they will budge. It's human nature.

And if they don't, they will be in the wrong anyway since they're taking up the whole sidewalk, so let them be pissed off.

Also, I can't help but feel this somehow is parallel to the mandatory tip discussion. Chivalry is not mandatory either, you can choose to go out of the way, but it's your choice.

My respectful 2 cents for the benefit of my friends on the Sift:

Being a libertarian[edit:] an individualist means you don't have to give a fuck about social norms. We feel like we'll be exiled from the tribe if we stand out, but society's too large for that now.

Walk like you're important, in a hurry, and going to beat the shit out of anyone who crosses you, and people will get out of your way

I've been trying to explain the: "chivalry is dead" thing to my wife for years now. She absolutely doesn't get it. Even on a joking level. She sees absolutely nothing incongruous with us being "equal" but me opening the door. And I don't even have a problem opening the door, I just don't see how she doesn't get it.

@Ryjkyj, LOL! I know! What is that? It's that "cake and eat it too" thing, I believe. It's like, "yeah, I'm equal, I'm just as good as any man, I can do whatever a man can do, but I'm also a princess therefore that makes me more than equal."

Maybe that's what they're trying to tell us? That they're more than equal?

My thoughts on equality
In my opinion equality is better than 17th century chivalry. The problem with equality though is that some people feel that they are more equal than others. This is, as far as I have observed, usually a female trait (unless you count the statistical outliers like the few ultra-rich and heads of states and the like) in that they demand equality in all things that benefit them yet refuse to fight for/accept equality in things that don't benefit them or is to their disadvantage. As I see it it is the old problem of living standards i.e. if you are used to having a high standard of living then lowering it is not a viable option. Giving way for a male can be seen as a lowering of their living standards in this instance.

How to deal with it
I have found that using their slogans against them and not helping them works quite well as they can't argue with you when you use their own arguments against them. Example: A female wants to reach the top shelves but can't because she is female and short. She sees a tall male and she looks at him with doe-eyes and asks with a lilt in her voice if he could help poor little her. Simply reply with a No and "Girl power!" or some other feminist slogan (In Sweden there was a slogan that went "Kvinnor kan!" which roughly means "Females can!" with [do anything males can] implied which I usually use). Some females realise the astounding irony of fighting gender inequalities and then relying on them for help but some of them get really pissed, in my opinion, because they can't get a male to do their bidding and are not used to being told 'No' by males. But hey if you want equality then you have got it. I would not help a random short male so I wont help a random female either. It is better for all to learn to improvise and solve their own tiny problems, how to get the crisps/chips from the top shelf, than to rely on the kindness/weakness of others.

In conclusion: you - right & they - wrong. Equality > Chivalry & Strength > Weakness

P.S. Wow this is a wall of text... congrats on getting through it :-D

It was just a reference to people who have a mindset of "you should share with me, but I shouldn't be expected to share with you." I know a particular female who goes on and on about how "women are just as good as men", but when it comes to physical work or paying for a meal then "that's the man's job".

It's only certain individuals though. There will always be people who want equal pay, but not equal work.


>> ^blankfist:
>> ^Psychologic:
Equity is for benefits, not responsibilities.
I'm not getting your meaning.

I adore women so I help them when I can. On the other hand I hold the doors open for men and women alike. I also stop and turn my back to the wall for any person needing to get through a cramped hallway. If I forget I usually apologize or feel bad for not doing so. I don't call it Chivalry I call it being polite. Oh and I'm not trying to imply that you guys are not polite just giving my two cents on the matter. To equal me out a little I don't always do the same for my wife because we are close and I tend to forget to be polite to her without intention.

Ah. Good point @Psychologic. My girlfriend, as lovely as she is, falls into that camp to some degree. Taking out trash is a man's job, she says, and I'm fine with that. Protecting the household is a man's job, and I'm more than fine with that. Doing anything that requires heavy lifting is my job, and that's cool.

As one of her Christmas gifts, I bought her a Roomba because we're both busy, and she's very vocal about hating cleaning the floors because our apartment gets an uncanny amount of dust. I thought it was a sweet gift. She thought it was sexist, though she never came right out and said it was sexist. When I told her I was going to get her the Scooba for her birthday, she emphatically instructed me not to as if by doing so I was objectifying her or something along those lines.

What if she bought me a robot to carry out the garbage? You think I'd complain? Hells to the naw. I'd love it.

Snooty neighborhood or something? I dunno, I never really have this problem and I walk a lot. The one I hate is when you both decide to dodge each other in the same direction and you end up back in front of each other... There's some primal timing to our brains that makes us all react to this at exactly the same time, because once you do it it takes an extremely fast set of reflexes, hair-trigger critical thinking and shear luck to un-dodge dance with each other.

Nice. Those ladies should be thankful they didn't bump shoulders with OJ.

equality:
you don't deserve to make more money than me for the same job and the same quality of work just because you have a penis. i can do more with my life than pop out babies and clean up your shit. my thoughts, ideas, opinions, feelings are just as valid as yours, as yours are as valid as mine. and blah blah blah blah you know all that

chivalry:
what remains of it, for the most part, is part of the courting ritual. if we're on our first date and you make no attempt to open doors for me or pick up the check or have good manners, that's our last date. i'm not sure why that's how it is. i am perfectly capable of doing those things for myself, but courting rituals are important and that's part of it. on the same coin, i'm expected to reciprocate by pretending you're fascinating and funny, not being opinionated, smiling politely, wearing make up, smelling nice, looking presentable, making polite conversation and being more conventionally feminine than i normally am. it's just part of the deal. i also used to feel bad having someone else pay for my shit, but apparently if i try to pay for my own stuff on a first date that's a signal that i just want to be "friends". these are cultural rules and they exist and most people abide by them. it's cool.
after a relationship is established the rules get more lax, i can pick up checks, i can open some of the doors, i can get more opinionated, you can act like more of a pig. as far as household chores go, if both people work to pay the bills then the chores should be split and how a couple chooses to split them is up to that couple. but i'd guess you're better at moving heavy objects and opening jars than i am. and i'm probably happier to scrub the toilet and fold the laundry. and you're still responsible to make each other feel special sometimes, and sometimes that means the traditional gender role courting game comes back into play.

common decency:
everyone should make way for everyone else and hold doors open if you get there first. regardless of gender. it's just being decent. it's like saying "i acknowledge your existence and i respect you", anything less is sheer rudeness. if i make it to the door first, i open the door. if an elderly person is slowly edging ahead of me to the door, i pick up my step and open it. if anyone is carrying something heavy or cumbersome to the door ahead of me, i step up and get the door. it doesn't matter what their gender is. out in public men do end up going out of their way more often to open doors for me, it's not necessary, but i do smile and say thanks and acknowledge it. and i do think it's polite. but i certainly don't just stand there and wait for some strange man to move his ass and get out of my way or open this silly door. i'm teaching both of my kids to open doors for other people and help other people with things in public, but i do emphasize "opening doors for ladies" more with my son. because gentlemen are appreciated (or should be). but my daughter is getting heavily schooled in respect and courtesy as well.

i'm sorry you have bitchy, attractive, spoiled neighbors. but chivalry and feminism aren't the issue.

Someone is a good speller. And probably not at all single.

jesus, listen to yourselves.... either you guys almost exclusively deal with the sorriest, bitchiest, most spoiled, princess-complex females in the universe ... or you're really kind of dickish.

i'm using larsarus's comment as the example, but his sentiments seem to be close to the norm here.

expecting that my work and mind be valued and respected as much as yours, does not mean i don't value your existence too. and helping your neighbor reach something high, or get through the door with her hands full doesn't mean you've bowed down to feminist subjugation or were manipulated by doe-eyes. for fucks sake dudes.

social rule for all genitals: don't be a dick. (pun not intended)

>> ^LarsaruS:
My thoughts on equality
In my opinion equality is better than 17th century chivalry. The problem with equality though is that some people feel that they are more equal than others. This is, as far as I have observed, usually a female trait (unless you count the statistical outliers like the few ultra-rich and heads of states and the like) in that they demand equality in all things that benefit them yet refuse to fight for/accept equality in things that don't benefit them or is to their disadvantage. As I see it it is the old problem of living standards i.e. if you are used to having a high standard of living then lowering it is not a viable option. Giving way for a male can be seen as a lowering of their living standards in this instance.
How to deal with it
I have found that using their slogans against them and not helping them works quite well as they can't argue with you when you use their own arguments against them. Example: A female wants to reach the top shelves but can't because she is female and short. She sees a tall male and she looks at him with doe-eyes and asks with a lilt in her voice if he could help poor little her. Simply reply with a No and "Girl power!" or some other feminist slogan (In Sweden there was a slogan that went "Kvinnor kan!" which roughly means "Females can!" with [do anything males can] implied which I usually use). Some females realise the astounding irony of fighting gender inequalities and then relying on them for help but some of them get really pissed, in my opinion, because they can't get a male to do their bidding and are not used to being told 'No' by males. But hey if you want equality then you have got it. I would not help a random short male so I wont help a random female either. It is better for all to learn to improvise and solve their own tiny problems, how to get the crisps/chips from the top shelf, than to rely on the kindness/weakness of others.
In conclusion: you - right & they - wrong. Equality > Chivalry & Strength > Weakness
P.S. Wow this is a wall of text... congrats on getting through it :-D

>> ^blankfist:
Someone is a good speller. And probably not at all single.


i assume that's a shot at me somehow, but it went over my head. be more direct with your insults.

And smart.

I'd suggest that the issue here was an implicit assumption of chivalric behavior. Chivalrous behavior is mostly characterized as being polite beyond the normal socially expected norm for the situation.

For example, in this case, if the girls had made a move to go single-file, and blankfist stepped onto the grass with a wave and a smile, that's chivalrous.

Glancing down the sidewalk, and seeing a man coming, and then resolutely not getting out of his way because you assume he'll clear the sidewalk for your benefit seems a tad conceited.

@chilaxe, I thought in this situation the libertarian answer is to say "if we didn't have socialized sidewalks, we wouldn't have these problems with people abusing communal property because there wouldn't be any communal property."

Bonus points if you can bring fiat currency into it somehow.

@NetRunner, ha, that seems like a fair point... My basic temperament is somewhat libertarian, but in practice I argue against formal libertarian positions more often than I argue for them, because of the kinds of things to which you refer.

In my previous statement, I should probably replace 'libertarian' with 'individualist'.

To be honest, that kind of fine-tuning is one of the reasons I enjoy commenting in general... It's difficult to see every facet of things without seeing how people with different perspectives react.

>> ^peggedbea:
jesus, listen to yourselves.... either you guys almost exclusively deal with the sorriest, bitchiest, most spoiled, princess-complex females in the universe ... or you're really kind of dickish.
i'm using larsarus's comment as the example, but his sentiments seem to be close to the norm here.
expecting that my work and mind be valued and respected as much as yours, does not mean i don't value your existence too. and helping your neighbor reach something high, or get through the door with her hands full doesn't mean you've bowed down to feminist subjugation or were manipulated by doe-eyes. for fucks sake dudes.
social rule for all genitals: don't be a dick. (pun not intended)
>> ^LarsaruS:
My thoughts on equality
In my opinion equality is better than 17th century chivalry. The problem with equality though is that some people feel that they are more equal than others. This is, as far as I have observed, usually a female trait (unless you count the statistical outliers like the few ultra-rich and heads of states and the like) in that they demand equality in all things that benefit them yet refuse to fight for/accept equality in things that don't benefit them or is to their disadvantage. As I see it it is the old problem of living standards i.e. if you are used to having a high standard of living then lowering it is not a viable option. Giving way for a male can be seen as a lowering of their living standards in this instance.
How to deal with it
I have found that using their slogans against them and not helping them works quite well as they can't argue with you when you use their own arguments against them. Example: A female wants to reach the top shelves but can't because she is female and short. She sees a tall male and she looks at him with doe-eyes and asks with a lilt in her voice if he could help poor little her. Simply reply with a No and "Girl power!" or some other feminist slogan (In Sweden there was a slogan that went "Kvinnor kan!" which roughly means "Females can!" with [do anything males can] implied which I usually use). Some females realise the astounding irony of fighting gender inequalities and then relying on them for help but some of them get really pissed, in my opinion, because they can't get a male to do their bidding and are not used to being told 'No' by males. But hey if you want equality then you have got it. I would not help a random short male so I wont help a random female either. It is better for all to learn to improvise and solve their own tiny problems, how to get the crisps/chips from the top shelf, than to rely on the kindness/weakness of others.
In conclusion: you - right & they - wrong. Equality > Chivalry & Strength > Weakness
P.S. Wow this is a wall of text... congrats on getting through it :-D



Another wall of text is incoming... be warned (Not interested in starting a flame war but will probably derail the thread a bit but here goes...)

A couple of comments as you used my text as an example:
1) I would help my neighbours, I like them and know them... well most of them at least and the ones I don't like I probably would not help... As someone said above: chivalry and tipping is a choice not mandatory and so is helping others, especially people you don't like/care about.

2) I can't speak for all of the sift but when I write a text like mine I use broad generalizations to get the/my point across, Example: "All Iraqis and Afghanis are terrorists who want to blow up the world", even if it is "a bit" exaggerated or not true in many many many cases(I would guestimate it to ~99.99% of them or so)...

3) Female wiles are still female wiles whether there is a "feminist agenda"/"feminist subjugation" or not. To clarify my stance/point: Males tend to get their way by use of force, physical/monetary/mental and so on, whilst Females get their way by looking good and using males to do their bidding, see gold diggers/black widows and so on. Yes, females are worth as much and contribute to other stuff using their brains blah blah blah. However, it is a, in my eyes at least, simple concept as (most) Males (except asexuals, homosexuals, paraplegics and others not interested in females and/or able to procreate) will do basically anything to increase their chance of getting laid, see plastic surgery/crazy diet & workout schemes and so on, and helping a female does that, in our minds at least, (increases the chance of it, not guarantees it. Don't confuse the two as it might land you in trouble ) and they know that we, males, believe that and use it to their advantage. It is all quite Machiavellian and I applaud them for it.

4) is a bit OT but ties in with My, not everyone's, views on things. Cont. of 3).
It's simply biology in action. Every single action we (as a biological species) ever do is for the ultimate goal of securing procreation/the continuation of our lifeform. (Once again: My views, maybe not shared with some/most...) We (as in males) work out to look good and to be able to fight off sabre-toothed tigers (Providing safety & security), we study to get a job that provides money (for food and shelter, more money usually = better food & shelter) and so on. These things lead to a higher chance of the young surviving and is therefore seen as positive traits when females are looking for a mate. In general animals that play to their strengths survive, those who don't go extinct, and in general males can overpower females but females can outscheme males. Remember to keep on copying and diversifying that DNA. It is the meaning of life after all. Survival of the most adaptable and all that junk...

PS. Oh I almost forgot to say that that was an excellent pun Bea... love that finishing touch... (Seriously I do, very nice)

PPS. Extremly long wall of text... hopefully it is clear enough to be read and understood by others but I know what I mean and that means others do too right?

Chivalry is not altruistic...it's to get laid. Treat it as such. If you don't give a f*ck about a broad, who cares, she has just as much opportunity as you do, you don't have to do shit for her. If you want to impress a girl that would like a refined gentleman, then open the fucking door. Point is, be smarter than her...

>> ^blankfist:
Taking out trash is a man's job, she says, and I'm fine with that. Protecting the household is a man's job, and I'm more than fine with that. Doing anything that requires heavy lifting is my job, and that's cool.
As one of her Christmas gifts, I bought her a Roomba because we're both busy ... She thought it was sexist ...
What if she bought me a robot to carry out the garbage? You think I'd complain? Hells to the naw. I'd love it.


But therein lies the discrepancy. You accept that taking out the trash is solely your responsibility. She does not accept that it is her job to clean the floor. You said yourself: "We're both busy" which implies it's a job for both/either of you, not for her alone.

As far as the rest of the subject goes, there will never be true equality betwixt the genders because we simply are not equal.

The female gender will always be the one responsible for child birth and their biological chemistry can alter their psychology as a result. The male gender as an overwhelming majority possesses significantly more testosterone than females, causing them to be more aggressive as well as physically capable. (Note this isn't true for every male versus every female; again, it's just an observable fact for the vast majority of males versus the vast majority of females. Also, these aren't the only differences between men and women, but my point is that our inequality is inherent on a biological, not just societal, level.)

The whole feminism movement arose from the ancient oppression of women by men inflicted and accepted almost everywhere throughout human history (and is still carrying on today in many cultures). Feminism (and women's suffrage) was needed to improve the treatment and perception of females as a whole by society in general, but on a lower level provided the opportunity for any individual woman to seek treatment equal to that of her male peers.

While this equality is a available to any female who wishes to exercise it (even if it is not recognized/respected by every other male or female), the feminism movement did not and could not force all women into the role of a feminist, nor all men into the role of equals.

The points I'm getting at are:
- If a man chooses to be chivalrous, then it is a personal choice regardless of how it is interpreted or received by anyone else. His chivalry will be ignored by some women, vilified by others, and appreciated by the rest.
- If a woman wishes to be treated as an equal, she is relieved of the right to expect any male to, strictly on the basis that she's a female, provide her any special courtesy.
- If a women feels that she is entitled to special treatment just based on the fact that she's female, she'll likely look down on essentially all males and expect that they kowtow to her.

I think most women in America nowadays lie in the neutral camp; they don't seek true, full equality and they only feel slightly more entitled/deserving than males in general, but they appreciate a chivalrous male.

All of that is my long way of saying the bottom line is chivalry is not dead nor is it appreciated by everyone. If you choose to be a chivalrous male, you have to bear with the unfortunate fact that it will go unappreciated or even discouraged by some. (That's part of the package.) But in any case, if you do it, you should do it for yourself, just to be happy with and proud of who you are.

On the other hand, if you actually make an effort to intentionally lack all chivalry, then you probably don't care what females think about you anyway, so just be happy treating everyone else as equals. There's nothing wrong with that. No one is born automatically deserving of anything except common human courtesy, and that should be shared in all directions between all persons regardless of gender.

(P.S. Isn't it funny there is never any discussion about men who wish to be treated by women with some kind of fem-chivalry?)
(P.P.S. Funny to imagine what this conversation would have been if the two ladies on the sidewalk were two guys instead. Maybe the title would have been "Fisticuffs!" instead of "Chivalry?")

hhhhhhhhhhhhhnNHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHGHGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

Lucky, that was the longest way to reiterate what I just wrote. But thank you for putting lipstick on my crass world-view, I couldn't agree with you more. Unless you said that I'm the sexiest man alive, then I could probably agree a little more.

This is why chivalry is dead. When it becomes expected, it's no longer chivalry, it's a chore. It's the same way the other way, though. (What do you call that? Femmalry). It's fundamentally distorting what you're like to get laid, and I don't like that. Better to present yourself the way you are, in my book anyway.

>> ^peggedbea:if we're on our first date and you make no attempt to open doors for me or pick up the check or have good manners, that's our last date. i'm not sure why that's how it is. i am perfectly capable of doing those things for myself, but courting rituals are important and that's part of it. on the same coin, i'm expected to reciprocate by pretending you're fascinating and funny, not being opinionated, smiling politely, wearing make up, smelling nice, looking presentable, making polite conversation and being more conventionally feminine than i normally am. it's just part of the deal. i also used to feel bad having someone else pay for my shit, but apparently if i try to pay for my own stuff on a first date that's a signal that i just want to be "friends". these are cultural rules and they exist and most people abide by them. it's cool. .

I see chivalry sometimes as just a front. My grandfather (mother’s father) was a very courteous person (mainly to females) in public but he was the most sexist meanest asshole. I’m not saying however that men that do open doors for others are that way, but I’m just saying that it doesn’t automatically mean that person is a nice guy. Who knows, maybe that guy who wants his portion of the sidewalk is a nice guy after all…or he could just be a douche bag. Regardless, it’s unfair to judge someone based on some fake charisma.

P.S. Fuck putting on makeup and if the guy doesn’t offer to pay for the first date…honestly…that wouldn’t mean it would be our last.

P.S. I keep a couple swords in my room just in case a dragon ever DOES attack. Id so do it, too!

Dragon lovah.
>> ^Drax:
P.S. I keep a couple swords in my room just in case a dragon ever DOES attack. Id so do it, too!

>> ^Drax:
P.S. I keep a couple swords in my room just in case a dragon ever DOES attack. Id so do it, too!


That's not what those swords are for....

Your spears may have reach, but don't just assume that means you've won the day >: /

Chivalry is theater. I do it because that's how I was brought up, and it's hard to unlearn what is taught, prayed and spanked into us at such a young age. Acceptance of people as your equal is genuine.

I would've stepped into the grass and let the women have the entire sidewalk, but like I said I stepped in dog shit once so I refuse to do it again. I made myself as horizontally thin as humanly possibly and moved as far to the edge of the sidewalk as I could, but that wasn't enough for these Los Angeles princesses. No they wanted the entire width of the sidewalk to themselves.

There was certainly a sense of entitlement playing out here. It's also a very common occurrence in my neighborhood. I live in a city of self-important people. Once I was crossing at a crosswalk in my residential neighborhood and some lady in a Mercedes had to wait for me to cross, which she wasn't happy about, so she almost drove up on the curb to get around me and then she made a comment at me. I can't remember what she said exactly but it was something to the effect of 'don't you look', which I remember making no sense at all because a) I had the right of way and b) I did look before crossing, but she had a stop sign.

This is where traffic trolling comes in. Walk super slowly in front of her car, if you have time slip down your pants and leave a nice big steamer on the hood of the car.
>> ^blankfist:
Chivalry is theater. I do it because that's how I was brought up, and it's hard to unlearn what is taught, prayed and spanked into us at such a young age. Acceptance of people as your equal is genuine.
I would've stepped into the grass and let the women have the entire sidewalk, but like I said I stepped in dog shit once so I refuse to do it again. I made myself as horizontally thin as humanly possibly and moved as far to the edge of the sidewalk as I could, but that wasn't enough for these Los Angeles princesses. No they wanted the entire width of the sidewalk to themselves.
There was certainly a sense of entitlement playing out here. It's also a very common occurrence in my neighborhood. I live in a city of self-important people. Once I was crossing at a crosswalk in my residential neighborhood and some lady in a Mercedes had to wait for me to cross, which she wasn't happy about, so she almost drove up on the curb to get around me and then she made a comment at me. I can't remember what she said exactly but it was something to the effect of 'don't you look', which I remember making no sense at all because a) I had the right of way and b) I did look before crossing, but she had a stop sign.

>> ^blankfist:
I would've stepped into the grass and let the women have the entire sidewalk, but like I said I stepped in dog shit once so I refuse to do it again.

Instead of going around them, you could always kneel down and pretend to re-tie your shoe laces. They'll either have to go around you or stop and wait. It takes more time, but at that point it's more about the principle.

Another option is feigning a psychological disorder... that usually gets people moving.

Is blankfist gonna have to choke a bitch?

Printing this post atop the VideoSift homepage - frontpage requested by kronosposeidon.

Yes... feigning.

>> ^Psychologic:
>> ^blankfist:
Another option is feigning a psychological disorder... that usually gets people moving.

Front page, motherfuckaz!

Comment hidden because you are ignoring dag. (show it anyway)

I've often thought that the custom of men letting a woman go first was just a chance to look at her ass.

This is why they wont let you into Fight Club.

What else can "getting out of a ladies way" be if not chivalry? Chivalry was killed in the mainstream when feminists started complaining about it. It still exists in small circles where and when it can be used as a tool for sexual conquest (as it always was)..i.e. when a guy is after a girl who gets off on "a guy who opens doors for me or picks up the check or has good manners"

The problem in this situation is these women think all men want to court them at all times...hence the pompous sense of entitlement and selfish attitude they project towards men. I'd put them in the same group as the feminists who complain about guys opening doors for them - the "people I don't want to date" group.

>> ^peggedbea:
chivalry:
what remains of it, for the most part, is part of the courting ritual.

...

i'm sorry you have bitchy, attractive, spoiled neighbors. but chivalry and feminism aren't the issue.

Not all women are like those fem-jerks (falsly entitled, stuck-up, bitchy, lame, snotty etc). It's pretty much just West LA... maybe all of Southern CA, where they're like this. One thing I find hard to tolerate is rudeness and bad manners, male OR female. I'd say just trip them next time and run away!

Oh great, since somebody sent this to the front, I would just like to say that I always practice chivalry:

Because women are the superior sex and they deserve to be treated like queens every second of every day.

ABC...Always Be Closing.>> ^Ryjkyj:
Oh great, since somebody sent this to the front, I would just like to say that I always practice chivalry:
Because women are the superior sex and they deserve to be treated like queens every second of every day.

I don't know, man. That happens to me all of the time, to the degree where I just quit trying and yield.

Some people just get off on being like that, I think. And then there are other people who just don't seem to pay attention to their surroundings, or the other people in those surroundings.

It's nice to know that I'm not the only person in the world who understands the concept of sharing the road.

>> ^dag:
I've often thought that the custom of men letting a woman go first was just a chance to look at her ass.


Godammit Dag! If you keep giving away Brotherhood secrets, we'll have to choice but to bring you up on charges...

I'll gladly step out of the way for anyone, regardless of gender, race or any other adjective...except for anybody named Heath. What a dumb name. Like an ugly dookie candy bar. But yeah, anyone else. Common courtesy and whatnot.

Also, if someone doesn't have common courtesy, they're uncommon cunts who deserve to have a railroad spike inserted unpleasantly into their duodenum.

there is no feminist conspiracy, i promise. and its not a matter of "getting off on it" it's a matter of broad generalizations about the way people are enculturated and things that are social occurrences. they just are.

and if you ask, you offer to pay. it's the same rule when i ask my female friends out to lunch; i ask, i offer to pay.

i have a really good friend, we met like 9 years ago and dated briefly. he even did the "open the car door thing" and i thought it was way over the top and he was trying way too hard, but something about it seemed oddly sincere so i didn't bust his balls for it right away. but 9 years later and all romantic interest crushed dead, he still opens my car doors and usually pays when go out, even for my kids, except for the times he's been unemployed and i paid for everything, or in cases where i get to the check first (which i try to do a lot). no one is getting off on it, no one is trying to get laid, it's just the way he shows respect and appreciation and love. i'm glad i never called him out for what i thought was a douchebag move, because he wasn't saying "i want to manipulate you into fucking me" he was actually saying "i respect and appreciate you" (but yeah, in most cases if you go so far as too open my car door, i might think you're trying too hard and be annoyed by it)

the point is these things are cultural symbols. they exist. opening a door for someone doesn't have to mean "i want to fuck you" or "you're a pitiful weak female and can't do this for yourself". it's just body language and it usually means "i acknowledge you're going through this door next and respect you enough as human to not let it slam in your face" and if you're so socially detached and cynical that you don't understand that, then no, i probably don't want to date you. but all things become subjective, of course. i usually like shy nerds, and i am usually friends with them first, and then i usually just tell them. but it's not like i've never been asked out first, and i pay attention to body language and signals and social cues. because they exist and say a lot about a person. and maybe it's because i was raised by men, or raised in the south, but courtesy and respect and general politeness are important. and our culture says these things show respect and courtesy. we don't go along telling people we respect them verbally, we open doors and want to share meals and help our neighbors.

and as far as blankfist's encounter with these bitches, some people are shameful and rude. some women are pampered spoiled bitches who think its okay to let his presence on the sidewalk go ignored. and that's wrong.


>> ^imstellar28:
What else can "getting out of a ladies way" be if not chivalry? Chivalry was killed in the mainstream when feminists started complaining about it. It still exists in small circles where and when it can be used as a tool for sexual conquest (as it always was)..i.e. when a guy is after a girl who gets off on "a guy who opens doors for me or picks up the check or has good manners"
The problem in this situation is these women think all men want to court them at all times...hence the pompous sense of entitlement and selfish attitude they project towards men. I'd put them in the same group as the feminists who complain about guys opening doors for them - the "people I don't want to date" group.
>> ^peggedbea:
chivalry:
what remains of it, for the most part, is part of the courting ritual.
...
i'm sorry you have bitchy, attractive, spoiled neighbors. but chivalry and feminism aren't the issue.

Do they really actually believe that, or was it more likely that it was the first thing that came into their heads after being challenged out of the blue by some random who has a bee in his bonnet cos he trod in dog shit once. Hmmmm

Is my sandwich ready?>> ^peggedbea:
there is no feminist conspiracy, i promise. and its not a matter of "getting off on it" it's a matter of broad generalizations about the way people are enculturated and things that are social occurrences. they just are.
and if you ask, you offer to pay. it's the same rule when i ask my female friends out to lunch; i ask, i offer to pay.
i have a really good friend, we met like 9 years ago and dated briefly. he even did the "open the car door thing" and i thought it was way over the top and he was trying way too hard, but something about it seemed oddly sincere so i didn't bust his balls for it right away. but 9 years later and all romantic interest crushed dead, he still opens my car doors and usually pays when go out, even for my kids, except for the times he's been unemployed and i paid for everything, or in cases where i get to the check first (which i try to do a lot). no one is getting off on it, no one is trying to get laid, it's just the way he shows respect and appreciation and love. i'm glad i never called him out for what i thought was a douchebag move, because he wasn't saying "i want to manipulate you into fucking me" he was actually saying "i respect and appreciate you" (but yeah, in most cases if you go so far as too open my car door, i might think you're trying too hard and be annoyed by it)
the point is these things are cultural symbols. they exist. opening a door for someone doesn't have to mean "i want to fuck you" or "you're a pitiful weak female and can't do this for yourself". it's just body language and it usually means "i acknowledge you're going through this door next and respect you enough as human to not let it slam in your face" and if you're so socially detached and cynical that you don't understand that, then no, i probably don't want to date you. but all things become subjective, of course. i usually like shy nerds, and i am usually friends with them first, and then i usually just tell them. but it's not like i've never been asked out first, and i pay attention to body language and signals and social cues. because they exist and say a lot about a person. and maybe it's because i was raised by men, or raised in the south, but courtesy and respect and general politeness are important. and our culture says these things show respect and courtesy. we don't go along telling people we respect them verbally, we open doors and want to share meals and help our neighbors.
and as far as blankfist's encounter with these bitches, some people are shameful and rude. some women are pampered spoiled bitches who think its okay to let his presence on the sidewalk go ignored. and that's wrong.

>> ^imstellar28:
What else can "getting out of a ladies way" be if not chivalry? Chivalry was killed in the mainstream when feminists started complaining about it. It still exists in small circles where and when it can be used as a tool for sexual conquest (as it always was)..i.e. when a guy is after a girl who gets off on "a guy who opens doors for me or picks up the check or has good manners"
The problem in this situation is these women think all men want to court them at all times...hence the pompous sense of entitlement and selfish attitude they project towards men. I'd put them in the same group as the feminists who complain about guys opening doors for them - the "people I don't want to date" group.
>> ^peggedbea:
chivalry:
what remains of it, for the most part, is part of the courting ritual.
...
i'm sorry you have bitchy, attractive, spoiled neighbors. but chivalry and feminism aren't the issue.

>> ^dag:
I've often thought that the custom of men letting a woman go first was just a chance to look at her ass.


I actually heard a great theory on why you open the door and let women go first through them:

It goes back to medieval or even pre-medieval eras when women were worth less than men and more expendable as you could go and get another one (marriage is a new thing and so is marriage for love, arranged marriages were the norm). The way it works is that you let the female exit first and if someone is waiting outside of the house for the master of the house they would instead kill the female and the male can get his weapons and get revenge. Houses, and people, were smaller back then so it would not be uncommon for people to stand on the roof over the door and simply stab the first person going out and then the male in the house could stab them back through the roof... Revenge has been served.

Another fine, alleged, custom in the old norse countries were to block the doors, at night, of the house with the people you want to kill/get revenge on and simply set the house on fire and if the residents could not get out and fight you, i.e. die in battle as you have armour and weapons and they don't, they were refused entrance to Valhalla... smoke poisoning and third degree burns make you a much better fighter... ahh, the good old chivalrous days

Also think about booby traps... they trigger them... you have a greater chance of survival... eeeexcellent as Mr.Burns would say

Why are there so many walls of text for such a simple question? And why is my avatar a picture of a meth addict?

In retrospect everything that's been said here is wrong. You should have pummeled her with your mighty gonad! That'd learn her.