WTF?! Children playing on the roof and 2500 dead and 50% kids!?

B U L L S H I T!

Must be his bad English...Typical Norwegians

He says "close to 500 dead, 2500 casualties, witch 50% are women and kids."
Must be 2500 wounded, since thats what the TYT guy says in the beginning.

I'll quote Doug Stanhope here.

Fuck the Jews.

All the reputable sources of the dead have it at 46% are women and children.

the age demographic of the Gaza Strip is something like 45% under the age of 15 anyway. i don't see why his figures would be B U L L S H I T.

as negative or as one sided as it may sound it makes sense for the Palestinians to claim that all their casualties are women and children, its terrible but you cant trust either side when it comes to reports on what is going on. Because it is in hamas's favor to claim that all attacks are on civilian targets. Now Israel is being very hard line and just saying if they are attacked they will hit back regardless of where the shot may have come from.

Just to reiterate It is Bullshit to accept that the claims that all the casualties are civilian and none are military, but it is also bs to accept that they are hitting military targets. But depending on the news you watch you will either feel completely detached from the goings on. For Christ's sake if you believe in him the damn US news reports on the attack sound like a sports broadcast when they talk about what is happening. But on the other side one needs to understand that it is in the best interest of Hamas to claim that every attack by the Israelis is against a target that never did anything ie a school or hospital regardless of wither or not Hamas used that site to fire rockets against Israel.

I upvoted the above comment with great hesitation. Although its points are valid - that you can't trust the casualty counts released by either side because of their obvious bias - the interviewee in this case is foreign and not Palestinian. This is a military action in a highly populated area, and I wouldn't be surprised if those numbers are not far off.

It's also bad news that the population of Gaza is so young, not just for the casualty distributions, but because teenage boys are excellent recruits for militants due to their greater willingness to believe in and sign on to a dangerous cause. An older person looking around at the carnage and with their own children to protect might be more inclined to support stopping it, but young men might see this and get angry enough to sign up with the resistance and fire rockets back, contributing to the destructive cycle.

The commentator's analogy is simplistic and inappropriate. "I think that there were shots coming from that direction so let's throw a bomb at that school over there" has an entirely different context from "Shots have been coming from this region for a long time and they've been landing in our territory with the intent to deliberately harm our people. We have warned you to stop it or shots will come back and hit wherever your shots are coming from, and they won't stop until yours do." This rationale certainly still doesn't make attacking a school right, but if you listen solely to the commentator you're not getting the whole story.

Both targeting locations in schools or marketplaces AND using those locations as launching points because you think they will incur retaliatory attacks that will harm civilians and make the enemy look bad is horrible.

>> ^Retroboy:
I upvoted the above comment with great hesitation. Although its points are valid - that you can't trust the casualty counts released by either side because of their obvious bias - the interviewee in this case is foreign and not Palestinian. This is a military action in a highly populated area, and I wouldn't be surprised if those numbers are not far off.
It's also bad news that the population of Gaza is so young, not just for the casualty distributions, but because teenage boys are excellent recruits for militants due to their greater willingness to believe in and sign on to a dangerous cause. An older person looking around at the carnage and with their own children to protect might be more inclined to support stopping it, but young men might see this and get angry enough to sign up with the resistance and fire rockets back, contributing to the destructive cycle.


But hey, that's not really a bad problem for Israel is it.

1. Your enemy are surrounded to the north and east with walls, to the south with destroyed tunnels and walls (preventing access to Egypt) and to the west by the Red Sea.
2. They do not have a serious standing army/airforce (no tanks, artillery beyond hand held, certainly no jets/helicopters).
3. They have little food and supplies.

So a few more rockets take a few more Israeli's out... It's all "collateral" damage and it gives the leadership more reason for more action.

And America's picking up the tab. Don't you guys feel kinda ass raped by all this? You're losing your jobs, your houses, your companies are collapsing, your returning vets can't get appropriate health care and support (you know, the guys out their dying for you) and your government is bankrolling another countries ability to bomb kids.


The commentator's analogy is simplistic and inappropriate. "I think that there were shots coming from that direction so let's throw a bomb at that school over there" has an entirely different context from "Shots have been coming from this region for a long time and they've been landing in our territory with the intent to deliberately harm our people. We have warned you to stop it or shots will come back and hit wherever your shots are coming from, and they won't stop until yours do." This rationale certainly still doesn't make attacking a school right, but if you listen solely to the commentator you're not getting the whole story.
Both targeting locations in schools or marketplaces AND using those locations as launching points because you think they will incur retaliatory attacks that will harm civilians and make the enemy look bad is horrible.


UN school ran by UN administrators housing refugees. Unless the UN is complicit in the attacks now...

Seriously, do you think the Jews would have appreciated America firebombing Dachau or Auschwitz because in amongst all of the holocaust survivors there could be a couple of German troops firing back?

What is scary, after going through such a terribly cultural event that they would perpetrate something similar on another race. Kudos, they became the monsters they despised.

... and here's Godwin.

UN school ran by UN administrators housing refugees.
I think it's important to point out here that we don't know the circumstances behind this location's attack. Was the Israeli soldier who pushed the button operating on his own judgement, or was it ordered by an Israeli commander who knew the nature of that location? Was it fog of war, or a known free ticket to kill third-party children?

Yes, I am absolutely in agreement that it shouldn't have happened. But the majority of the reaction seems to be pointing the finger at the entirety of Israel. Their military is invading Palestine, but was it considered acceptable to incur third-party casualties such as this in the process as part of collateral damage? If so, they should be vilified for it, but if they took as many precautions as possible to avoid things like this happening, the reaction should be less.

What is scary, after going through such a terribly cultural event that they would perpetrate something similar on another race. Kudos, they became the monsters they despised.

As bad as it is, the situation in Palestine is NOTHING compared to what Jews suffered during World War 2. This is not even a tiny fraction of the systematic extermination of millions that occurred in that event. Israel might want to remove all of Palestine, but they're not acting on it in the same way the Germans did.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Auschwitz_bombing_debate

Ignorance is bliss, huh?

Hamas, the freely elected Palestinian government, holds and has always held as its core tenet the destruction of the state of Israel and the murder of its citizens. What is Israel supposed to do?

Sit still and quiet, and let the rockets fall and the bombers kill dozens in the streets and discotheques?

Without question the death of non-combatants is horrifying, and everything within reason should be done to avoid it.

However, it is not reasonable to tell a country that it should forgo a violent response to the premeditated killings of its populace by a state or state-like actor.

>> ^Yehoshua:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Auschwitz_bombing_debate
Ignorance is bliss, huh?
Hamas, the freely elected Palestinian government, holds and has always held as its core tenet the destruction of the state of Israel and the murder of its citizens. What is Israel supposed to do?
Sit still and quiet, and let the rockets fall and the bombers kill dozens in the streets and discotheques?
Without question the death of non-combatants is horrifying, and everything within reason should be done to avoid it.
However, it is not reasonable to tell a country that it should forgo a violent response to the premeditated killings of its populace by a state or state-like actor.



Everyone picks on Israel because it has the big military, and is in the limelight.

But few people forget that Hamas REFUSES to stop attacking Israel. When Hamas called for a Cease fire (a while back) they still refused to stop rocket attacks.

Hamas is a Terrorist organization, leading a country. You can pin this totally on the Jews.

>> ^Retroboy:
... and here's Godwin.


Lol, so it's okay to use "the Holocaust" and accusations of anti-semitism to shout down criticism of Israel, but not okay to liken them to a regime who's actions they seem determined to emulate?

Typical double standard. It's not okay when the German's did it, it's okay when Israel does.


I think it's important to point out here that we don't know the circumstances behind this location's attack. Was the Israeli soldier who pushed the button operating on his own judgement, or was it ordered by an Israeli commander who knew the nature of that location? Was it fog of war, or a known free ticket to kill third-party children?


Does it matter? The US has been lobbing rockets around Iraq (oh gee lookit, a foreign country) for a good long time now, if an Iraqi bombed a US school you guys would lose your fucking minds no matter what the "extenuating" circumstances were...


Yes, I am absolutely in agreement that it shouldn't have happened. But the majority of the reaction seems to be pointing the finger at the entirety of Israel. Their military is invading Palestine, but was it considered acceptable to incur third-party casualties such as this in the process as part of collateral damage? If so, they should be vilified for it, but if they took as many precautions as possible to avoid things like this happening, the reaction should be less.


No, it's not, it's pointed at the leadership of Israel. I think a lot of Israeli's will be disgusted by their government's actions but they can't effect change. I think this will be a national shame for Israel for a long time to come.

As bad as it is, the situation in Palestine is NOTHING compared to what Jews suffered during World War 2. This is not even a tiny fraction of the systematic extermination of millions that occurred in that event. Israel might want to remove all of Palestine, but they're not acting on it in the same way the Germans did.


You live in a dream world...

Norwegian People's Aid
http://www.npaid.org/?module=Articles;action=Article.publicShow;ID=7118

We can say the situation is extremely difficult but this is not the case; actually no one in the world could imagine how the current situation is and the depression people here are living in; we are now very close to re-experience the living of primitives in the Stone Age.

Talking about living under strict siege and deprivation from electricity, water, cooking gas, fuel, flour etc., which are the main essential materials for surviving, is common and occupying minds of several households. Some people are short of water for several days continuously.

What are we going to use for food next few days after gas or flour runs out and bakeries are closed. Are we going to continue to mill the animal fodder and make bread ; why not as we are forced to do so!

Since 5th November till this day 1st December the number of truckloads were less than 150 for the whole period compared to average of 123 truckloads/day during October 2008. International Agencies and diplomatic missions were denied entering the Gaza Strip as well as media including our Country Director Kirsten Belck-Olsen.

Our office in Gaza, staff and partners are facing serious challenges to implement activities as initially planned and they are moving around to find source of power to accomplish them in a different locations and different time, and this is the case for all in the Gaza Strip.

Palestinians people are paying very high price due to factors beyond their control, but their first choice is to be one entity to be able to obtain, defend and protect their rights.

Despite the internal political dispute among the Palestinian factions, Israeli occupation is the main reason for the suffering of Palestinians by preventing humanitarian aid and blocking all crossings sending Gazans to their certain destiny in a modern way.

Mahmoud Hamada
NPA-Palestine
Written by candle light

Great comment Asmo. Good to hear some semblance of rationality return to the discussion.

The Germans were demented, believing that the Jews were responsible for their defeat in World War I and were determined to destroy the German people.

Hamas' charter holds as its primary goal the destruction of Israel; they chant "death to the Jews" at every opportunity.

There's a difference between the two, and there's no semblance of rationality in what Asmo said.

Is it crazy to believe that someone who says they want to kill you wants to kill you? Is it wrong to act on the belief that they actually want to kill you? What about when they say they want to kill you and try to kill you?

That's a strange thing to say Yehoshua. Especially when you consider that in terms of killing people it's the Jews who are doing the majority of it.

There's a big difference between trying to kill people and actually killing people.