You know what? RP needs to run for the lead role in the new Conan movie!

The thumbnail image for this video has been updated - thumbnail added by Boise_Lib.

I hate how libertarians of this variety just opt for "get rid of it all" rather than reform. They fail to acknowledge any good done by anything that might infringe on their "liberty". Well, congratz. You are free to die, starve and be homeless as a result of natural disaster. FREEDOM!

>> ^Kofi:

I hate how libertarians of this variety just opt for "get rid of it all" rather than reform. They fail to acknowledge any good done by anything that might infringe on their "liberty". Well, congratz. You are free to die, starve and be homeless as a result of natural disaster. FREEDOM!


No, they say the money here is wasted and that it is money coming from somewhere we can't afford it.

Now RP, being ultra-lib, does go a bit father than me...okay, a lot father. For Ex, I believe in Unemployment insurance.

But where we agree is more. Assisted suicide, abortion (Insomuch as it being legal, but hating it personally,) the drug war, the wars overseas, etc.

Also, his philosophy counters policies that are too destructive on the opposite end (Such as improper search and seizure in the name of security, or corporate welfare...) Of course it is a losing position, but whatever. The oligarchy that both primary parties support (One knowingly, one unknowingly) is winning.

>> ^Kofi:

I hate how libertarians of this variety just opt for "get rid of it all" rather than reform. They fail to acknowledge any good done by anything that might infringe on their "liberty". Well, congratz. You are free to die, starve and be homeless as a result of natural disaster. FREEDOM!


My question then Kofi is thus---we are trillions in debt even though all our programs are half-assed like FEMA.

Where, then, lies the intellect? They say we are 14 trillion in debt but then government is always likely to downplay real threats. The feds had powers to issue unlimited borrowing powers--and not put it on the books (From what I have read.) Some estimations are that we owe 40 trillion, the top end being 60 trillion. There is another way the funds are fudged, such as interdepartmental loans, and borrowing against future programs (Social security.)

That's not even mentioning every American citizen's debt. Hate to say it, but we have long lived past the means to be able to support these programs. I would rather support corn subsidizes than FEMA.

what a fool.
Erik Larson has a great book on the 1900 Galveston hurricane. Crazy, crazy tale.
Many thousands were killed...yet the moral imbecile above figures this means "the local people...survived without FEMA."

Hey Ron Paul fanboys--yr pipsqueak hero will never be more than a loony non-entity in our broken gummint's 'lower house'. Which is more than he deserves.

The ire is up for RP. Looks like liberty is gaining ground and the statists are afraid.

Run chicken littles, run.

>> ^blankfist:

The ire is up for RP. Looks like liberty is gaining ground and the statists are afraid.
Run chicken littles, run.


So there's no such thing as evolving? And FEMA helps no one? He sounds like a fucking idiot who would be fine with people dying in the Superdome. FEMA needs MORE money not less.

What "reform"? If by reform you mean quickly firing the incompetent, scrapping useless and conflicting regulations, utilizing common sense and reducing costs because funds are limited, then forget it. Boondoggles via these government agencies NEVER go away, and both sides are all too eager to create more and more of them.

There is no doubt some good done by a FEMA, but likely at the expense of better or greater results by something or someone else whose services are actually held accountable.




>> ^Kofi:

I hate how libertarians of this variety just opt for "get rid of it all" rather than reform. They fail to acknowledge any good done by anything that might infringe on their "liberty". Well, congratz. You are free to die, starve and be homeless as a result of natural disaster. FREEDOM!

>> ^doorworker:

what an fool.
Erik Larson has a great book on the 1900 Galveston hurricane. Crazy, crazy tale.
Many thousands were killed...yet the moral imbecile above figures this means "the local people...survived without FEMA."
Hey Ron Paul fanboys--yr pipsqueak hero will never be more than a loony non-entity in our broken gummint's 'lower house'. Which is more than he deserves.


And who are you a fanboy of? Who will fix the problems?

I am neither fanboy of nor do I think RP is a god. However, I think our culture is far worse than this "loony" man... Lazy, divisive, entitled, children with too much to lose. And those are our better sides.

So what fix do you have if any?

But now @Yogi and @blankfist

Everything needs more money...when does it end? Education, needs more money. Roads and bridges? Needs more money. Energy? Money. Wealthy people need their tax breaks, poor people do too. We need money in healthcare, we need money...money...money...money...

I need my money in a box, I need my money with a ass, I do like my money here or there, I do like my money with a Nair, that Uncle Sam I am does like his money!

This is the kind of thing that makes Mr. Paul ineligible for higher office. FEMA is absolutely a good program. I'm sure in a disaster, Mr. Paul would be taken care of, but most people don't have his resources.

FEMA is a negligible contributor to the debt. For him to go there shows how weak his argument against FEMA is.

@Lawdeedaw We're 14 Trillion in debt; FEMA does not even make up 1% of that, to help people who have been befallen by unforseen disasters. Farm subsidies make up many times what is spent on FEMA every year, and actually do create a chronic dependency on the government and distort the agricultural market.

To be such a constitutionalist, what part of "..... insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare,..... " does he not understand? If helping people in a sudden natural disaster is not promoting domestic tranquility and general welfare of citizens, then what, pray tell, the hell is?

Helping people whose homes have been destroyed by a hurricane or tornado is creating dependency? What a selfish fuck he is.

@longde

That is what insurance is for---whether done by government or private sector (He would advocate private but that's beside the point.)

As far as AG goes, corn prices are down which means we can enjoy 15% of our income being spent on groceries as opposed to much higher %'s in other countries.

Either way, I don't agree with the subsidies corn gets.

I think Paul's only true problem is that he puts to much stock into lazy, arrogant sons-of-bitches that wouldn't help their neighbors even if they had the means. He is a fool in that regard. Our society, our people are nothing but corruption.

So, that's my pessimistic side... I do all I can to help my fellow man but I worry people like Paul are crazy for believing.

Related.

Ron Paul is a filthy fucking statist. Below are some of his relevant 2009 budget requests (still looking for his 2010 and 2011 earmark requests):


Subcommittee on Homeland Security:

• $8.8 million for FEMA for drainage at Cove Harbor in Aransas County

• $2.2 million for FEMA to reconfigure and stabilize Capano Causeway Pier

• $500,000 for FEMA for Aransas County drainage master plan

• $35 million for FEMA for drainage in Friendswood

• $10 million for FEMA for drainage project for Friendswood/Clear Creek

• $10 million for FEMA for drainage project for Friendswood/Clear Creek

• $5 million for FEMA to recycle household hazardous waste in Friendswood

This is what insurance is for?!?!

Do you remember people in hurricane Katrina that couldn't afford to even get out of town? I mean, they had no means of leaving the area. Poor people. Proper poor people. Do you think insurance was within their grasp?

And even WITH FEMA look at the mess that area is still in.

Its laughable that libertarians think that volunteerism is going to solve everything when there are a plethora of things that need volunteers now and a major shortage in charity.

I am not a "statist" by any means. If anything I am a socialist libertarian. However, all I hear from you libs here is $$$ and freedom freedom freedom. What about actual physical needs of people far less fortunate than yourselves? Proper poor people. Proper disaster victims. Your lack of compassion or understanding of the real world makes me think that you are all closet social darwinists.

Something many people forget is that urbanisation leads to more damage by natural disasters. I once heard about one theory in a geography lecture that the number or intensity of natural disasters and storms has not risen significantly, but the damage and therefore the perception has.

In the year mentioned in the video, 1900, the world-population was under 2 billion, today it is almost 7 billion.

In the U.S, the number has gone up from 76 million in 1900 to 312 million today (4,1 times more).

And most importantly, the areas at the gulf got more populated: Florida's population rank rose more than that of any other state, from 33rd to 4th place in state rankings from 1900 to 2000.

The denser you populate, the more effect it will have on more people and more houses when natural disasters happen.

1900-America's need for disaster-relief and today's America's disaster relief is not comparable without scientifically balancing a lot of factors first.

>> ^longde:

Ron Paul is a filthy fucking statist. Below are some of his relevant 2009 budget requests (still looking for his 2010 and 2011 earmark requests):

Subcommittee on Homeland Security:
• $8.8 million for FEMA for drainage at Cove Harbor in Aransas County
• $2.2 million for FEMA to reconfigure and stabilize Capano Causeway Pier
• $500,000 for FEMA for Aransas County drainage master plan
• $35 million for FEMA for drainage in Friendswood
• $10 million for FEMA for drainage project for Friendswood/Clear Creek
• $10 million for FEMA for drainage project for Friendswood/Clear Creek
• $5 million for FEMA to recycle household hazardous waste in Friendswood


You're a dumbass. RP has always voted against the appropriation. Earmarks are 1% of the budget, that any funds get back to his district after they're taken means it doesn't go to the general fund to be spent on some bullshit embassy or something. It's like taking a tax credit despite being against the income tax: it's not hypocritical, it's salvaging what you can should you fail to stop appropriation. Oh, and earmarks actually tell you what the spending is for, whereas the Fed issues trillions in new money and doesn't have to tell you where it went. Maybe you should hang around smarter message boards so you don't fall for every half-brained argument you see.

Nicely explained if a little nasty, bansheex... though i guess longde was a bit rude to ron paul... or something? Well explained nontheless. Not that i know much about that stuff, but it looks like you know your stuff.

There is no need for incivility. It's fair to call a national figure a dumbass--being in the spotlight invites criticism--but not other sifters. kofi is not out of line. If your facts hold water you don't need the insults.


>> ^BansheeX:

>> ^longde:
Ron Paul is a filthy fucking statist. Below are some of his relevant 2009 budget requests (still looking for his 2010 and 2011 earmark requests):

Subcommittee on Homeland Security:
• $8.8 million for FEMA for drainage at Cove Harbor in Aransas County
• $2.2 million for FEMA to reconfigure and stabilize Capano Causeway Pier
• $500,000 for FEMA for Aransas County drainage master plan
• $35 million for FEMA for drainage in Friendswood
• $10 million for FEMA for drainage project for Friendswood/Clear Creek
• $10 million for FEMA for drainage project for Friendswood/Clear Creek
• $5 million for FEMA to recycle household hazardous waste in Friendswood

You're a dumbass. RP has always voted against the appropriation. Earmarks are 1% of the budget...

I know he votes against the appropriation. So? He KNOWS the appropriation will never fail, and he will get his funding requests despite his vote. The more principled stance would be to not request the earmarks in the first place. Or to not be a so-called libertarian masquerading as a federal fucking legislator (or is it the other way around?).

You're very in love with Mr. Paul if you can't see the rancid hypocrisy of him actively benefiting from something he vehemently condemns. (It runs in the family too, as his son hates medicaid but loved taking medicaid money from his patients).

And Mr. Paul is the one who says in this very video that spending on FEMA is harmful to the debt. I point out above, like you, that such spending is really miniscule.

>> ^quantumushroom:

There is no need for incivility. It's fair to call a national figure a dumbass--being in the spotlight invites criticism--but not other sifters. kofi is not out of line. If your facts hold water you don't need the insults.

>> ^BansheeX:
>> ^longde:
Ron Paul is a filthy fucking statist. Below are some of his relevant 2009 budget requests (still looking for his 2010 and 2011 earmark requests):

Subcommittee on Homeland Security:
• $8.8 million for FEMA for drainage at Cove Harbor in Aransas County
• $2.2 million for FEMA to reconfigure and stabilize Capano Causeway Pier
• $500,000 for FEMA for Aransas County drainage master plan
• $35 million for FEMA for drainage in Friendswood
• $10 million for FEMA for drainage project for Friendswood/Clear Creek
• $10 million for FEMA for drainage project for Friendswood/Clear Creek
• $5 million for FEMA to recycle household hazardous waste in Friendswood

You're a dumbass. RP has always voted against the appropriation. Earmarks are 1% of the budget...



WHAT?! Since when can't I call other sifters Dumbasses? Fuck them...everyone on here is a bastard and I hate them...AHHHH FUCK!

Talk about rose colored glasses for the past. Some how the deadliest natural disaster and 2nd most costly hurricane in US history = A model of libertarian efficiency. What a ridiculous fallacious comparison. Maybe if the people had evacuated themselves or built a seawall and raised the island in anticipation of the storm rather than after ~8k people were killed and damn near every building on the island was wiped off it did they think, 'hey maybe we should be slightly concerned about hurricanes'. Further more, it was the Texas and Galveston governments that were responsible for the creation of the seawall. Its not like all the local residents and business banded together to create it.

I don't think anyone would argue that FEMA is a great agency, but to suggest its worthless is absurd (especially in offering the 1900 Galveston hurricane as comparison of how much better things were without FEMA).

Oh? Lawdeedaw said >>>"Whether done by government..." So government is not big enough? Pre-storm welness is an insurance matter too...please tell me you read and understood that Darken! Please tell me you didn't take my neutral comment as advocating private, greed-based insurance? Oh, you did? Too bad for you.

But here is some fun note...who doooooo you suppose provides these services then? The government that gives STDs to third world-ish countries, fights two wars for the sole purpose of glory and control, the government that advocates people's stupidity?

I am asking in a serious manner. We accuse Republicans of dodging the "hard" questions while ourselves dodging those same ones.

>> ^DarkenRahl:
>> ^Lawdeedaw:
@longde
That is what insurance is for---whether done by government or private sector (He would advocate private but that's beside the point.)
As far as AG goes, corn prices are down which means we can enjoy 15% of our income being spent on groceries as opposed to much higher %'s in other countries.
Either way, I don't agree with the subsidies corn gets.
I think Paul's only true problem is that he puts to much stock into lazy, arrogant sons-of-bitches that wouldn't help their neighbors even if they had the means. He is a fool in that regard. Our society, our people are nothing but corruption.
So, that's my pessimistic side... I do all I can to help my fellow man but I worry people like Paul are crazy for believing.

Yes. Insurance is for replacing property that has been destroyed. Like your house, your car, your wife and kids...
Oh, shit. That can't be right.
That kind of stuff needs to be protected from natural disasters by some sort of larger organization that has the resources to do what I, as an individual, cannot.

I'd try to have an informed debate with you, Lawdeedaw, but considering the sheer volume of words you just put in my mouth, you must know everything I would say.

>> ^DarkenRahl:

I'd try to have an informed debate with you, Lawdeedaw, but considering the sheer volume of words you just put in my mouth, you must know everything I would say.


Did not put words in your mouth DarkenRahl, 95% of my post was questions. You said we needed more than just insurance. I asked if government insurance, which should include preventative services wasn't big enough.

The easy, republican way of dodging is exactly what you just did. That's the Washington shuffle. You assumed I said something, put words in MY mouth, then accused me of doing it to you.

>> ^Kofi:

This is what insurance is for?!?!
Do you remember people in hurricane Katrina that couldn't afford to even get out of town? I mean, they had no means of leaving the area. Poor people. Proper poor people. Do you think insurance was within their grasp?
And even WITH FEMA look at the mess that area is still in.
Its laughable that libertarians think that volunteerism is going to solve everything when there are a plethora of things that need volunteers now and a major shortage in charity.
I am not a "statist" by any means. If anything I am a socialist libertarian. However, all I hear from you libs here is $$$ and freedom freedom freedom. What about actual physical needs of people far less fortunate than yourselves? Proper poor people. Proper disaster victims. Your lack of compassion or understanding of the real world makes me think that you are all closet social darwinists.


Urm, yes, I agree. Read my following posts Kofi, then reply. I think I was highly misunderstood.

As far as volunteerism I agree. I take it father and tell the truth about humanity. Ever since the industrial revolution Americans have been slipping further from each other. We have become amoral and fucking tards. Worse every day. Nasty, insecure excuses for people will never make it work.

If this were Japan, yeah, maybe. But not here in America.