Well, how can I possibly counter that.
Your self asserted grasp on eating disorders far outstrips mine.
Also, Your comparison to Ebola is a ridiculous straw man that any reasonable person should be able to differentiate.
Normalization related to weightgain is the effect of a society getting ever fatter and people becoming less and less concerned with it, or less likely to avoid emulating it because it has every day prevalence and gains acceptance.
For your consideration here is Normalization

Your argument about a given method or therapy (I am not saying this guys letter was either) having a necessary outcome of positive would discredit EVERY attempt at getting someone to lose weight, as no method has 100% success or is necessarily "good/positive".

The act of pointing out that someone is heavy isn't nice. But, denying that vanity can cause people to want to change is just silly.

You trying to claim that my argument is that this is my preferred method is also silly and another straw man.

The implications/effect of this guys letter, as I am sure he is experiencing is by no means known, or reliable from individual to individual.

Every line of your post is more concerned with using falsified assertions of my position to try and better your argument all while failing to include references or anything substantive to debunk my actual arguments. It is not working.

>> ^NinjaInHeat:

I don't know what to say except again that it's pretty obvious you don't know the first thing about eating disorders.
How exactly does the American obesity problem equals the "normalization" of it? That's like saying the normalization of Ebola is a problem in Africa.
I'll give you this much, your idea of dealing with a problem is definitely an effective one.
Making a person super self-conscious about their physical appearance is a very effective way of having them change it. The problem here is that you to understand that effective doesn't necessarily equal good/positive.
Your idea of the proper way to deal with these issues is a scary one, more so for the fact you don't even realize what the implications of it are.

Yes I do think thats possible.
Just as I might try and get a drug addict clean, or a pregnant lady to stop smoking without publicly ousting her.
Sometimes the right thing isn't the nice thing.
His actions may be unnecessary, but they were not a troll and they really do not appear overly mean spirited (he could have been WAY more acerbic in his word choice).

I completely disagree that this is bullying or internet bullying. Bullying implies repeat behaviors like this definition. Your outrage in my opinion is out of scope with what actually happened.

He could have sent this letter via the USPS to the exact same effect.

Yup Thumper you're right. There is no polite way to say it.
Your comparison over "doing it in public" however is kinda... completely ignoring what happened here?
He did it privately over email.
You need to understand that.

He didn't try and publicly shame her. He doesn't want anything from her to enrich himself. He did not bully her.

What is "nice" to you isn't relevant. Hell, I will totally AGREE that it isn't nice. Doesn't make it worth all this hooplah that she created either by making it public, and it doesn't make being obese a good thing.

>> ^Thumper:

Here's the problem...He would never have said that shit in public to her face around other people. So how is it okay for him to say it to her in private? If I heard someone say some crap like that to someone standing next to me I would beat their ass right in front of everyone. You can turn this in any direction and it would still apply. If one was very skinny and someone crudely pointed this out around others it would be awkward to the point of physical repercussions.
I don't know who you people are but let me tell you. You will never get away with what that guy said in his letter in public. The internet lets people bullshit so much but the fact is your pathetic notions are crass and you would be outed so quickly in the real world.
As she mentioned he is not her friend or family. He's a coward who hide in the email shadows. The whole point of her pointing this out is because it's national bully month to create awareness for bullying in school. A serious problem to any parent. In the real world you don't get away with comments like that - his ass would get kicked. Then where ever he said it he would be black listed and never allowed to return.

That sure is nice of you to go to prison for a stranger over something another stranger said in almost as constructive a way as possible.

It makes you sound like a violent psychopath.

He didn't bully her. He didn't show up at her office with a "Hey fatty!" sign. He didn't chase her down in other venues, he didn't persist in any way in fact.
You are applying the term bullying where it is wholly inappropriate.

1.Yes you are.

2. Choosing to continue smoking and choosing to not take steps to get your weight under control and or stop overeating are well paralleled as demonstrated above. Feel free to argue it.

3. Being overweight in the playground DOES make them more likely to die of heart disease in later life.
Here's a quote for you.
“This is incredibly important,” said Jennifer L. Baker of the Institute of Preventive Medicine in Copenhagen, who led the research, being published today in the New England Journal of Medicine. “This is the first study to convincingly show that excess childhood weight is associated with heart disease in adulthood, or with any significant health problem in adulthood.”

To you point about it being his business etc... You know what, you're right. It isn't his business.
Does that matter? Not a whole lot. In fact he IS doing her a favor.
Hurting her feelings however unkind may be an important catalyst in getting her to change her habits.
Vanity is an INCREDIBLY powerful driving force for people.

In my view, someone who knows there is a problem and chooses to ignore it is a bigger (although perhaps socially nicer) coward.

Oh and people get away with comments like that in public all the time. I don't know what fantasy world you live in where no one chastises anyone, must be nice.

>> ^Jinx:


Oh, I'm making hyperbolic conclusions and then you equate smoking to being overweight? Being fat in a playground doesn't make the kids more at risk of heart disease.

so I guess you're right then. I dont get it. I don't get why her weight is your business if its not some wrong headed belief that she is a poor role model (that at least seemed to be the point of the email no?)
There is no easy solution. I'm not suggesting we ignore obesity or its health risks but there are right ways of tackling problems and there are the futile ways. If it was as fucking easy and emailing fat people to point out that they are fat and oh, here are the health risks then, err, why are people still overweight? So stop pretending that this email is in any way helpful. At best its tactless, at worst its cruel. Now, if I had a family member with weight problems I would consider it my place and indeed my duty to not just confront them about it, but also help them maintain a healthier lifestyle. I'd hope they'd do the same for me, but a stranger who is unwilling to invest any assistance to me beyond their critique? Fuck that. Mind your business.

>> ^bmacs27:

@scannex Dude... are you really citing a marketing campaign for weight loss pushers? I bet you I could find data that shows the effectiveness of penis enhancement pills too. If you took a few you might find you like 'em thick ;-). Try some primary literature, and I'll respond in kind.

Try to refute this claim: "Overweight or mildly obese individuals with otherwise normal bio-markers show no decrease in life expectancy from normal."

If you can't, then tell me why it is okay to berate someone about their weight knowing nothing about their health overall?


I don't what source your quote came from.
But I will happily refute it.
Here you go, from the NIH
A referenced article from Oxford
Another study
Heres the wiki for Leptin so you can understand why the release of leptin (from having too much fat) creates a vicious cycle causing you to eat more and more.
Another article on the increased risk for diabetes in the obese from you know... the journal NATURE

This is not a "jury is out" scenario. Directly and indirectly obesity causes a myriad of health complications and increased risk for debilitating and deadly diseases.

You are fighting against countless areas of research with one obscure data point from what is probably a single study that I have no source for. Even with the source its an incredibly uphill battle for you.

Being Obese is unhealthy, and except for in an EXTREME minority of genetic cases, completely modifiable.

>> ^bmacs27:

Every study I've seen shows that diets of that sort yield short term weight loss although subjects generally reacquire the weight within a year of stopping the diet, and report depression during the diet. Prove me wrong.


Ok...
Weight Watchers Success Stories
People failing to maintain their diets and permanently alter their eating and exercise behavior after a successful diet is behavioral.
Failing at anything can cause depression. This is not a complex phenomenon. Cessation of an activity you previously relied on for happiness is bound to make you less happy (biochemically if nothing else), and like quitting smoking will always be a difficult temptation.

>> ^Jinx:


Nobody is suggesting that there is not a problem with obesity in America (or really most of the 1st world tbh). The solution is not to write rude emails pointing out the obvious though. Even though she decided to "go public" I still don't really see why its my business. Consider walking up to somebody in the street and making the same comments. Would you not expect to get slapped? and a poor role model? Please, as if some 6 yr old is gonna see her on TV and aspire to be fat. Get real.


So what is the solution? Ignore it? That tactic was working great for her and her health so far I'm sure.

You don't get it. It isn't about aspiring to be fat. That's a hyperbolic conclusion you are drawing to further your point. Normalization and idolization are not synonyms.

Oh, and consider walking up to a woman smoking while pregnant on the street, or hey, a little less extreme, in a playground to give them a piece of your mind. Happens every day. People voicing their opinion is a pretty common thing, hence our stupid discussion under a video.

>> ^NinjaInHeat:

Take a second to think about how TV "role models" usually look (or people "in the public eye" as scannex puts it).
What planet have you been living on where the "normalization of obesity" has become a problem?


>> ^scannex:
The normalization of obesity is a problem.




Oh, I don't know... how about this planet? Where the USA is the fattest developed country in the world?
Your text to link...

So yes... "F**cking seriously".
You must be daft if you cannot discern between healthy weight, a supermodel and someone who is obese. Being underweight is dangerous as well, and you drawing the conclusion as to that is what we are after is silly.
This was a private letter SHE made public. You say that the opinion is that she is too fat to be on TV. Not the case, and not the suggestion of the letter. This PRIVATE letter was a plea to this woman's sensibilities in fashion less sugarcoated than she is used to.

Edgeman, eating causes the release dopamine among other things. The clinical depression is a result of doing less of something your brain likes doing. Fat cells themselves also upregulate chemicals that increase the desire to eat, perpetuating the problem.
You however are citing the Solution to a problem AS the problem. (the problem beaing: eating as a key necessary trigger of hapiness in the individual). The solution, getting your weight under control is not what needs to be avoided here.

Again, this parallels perfectly to smoking. People become irritable/depressed/despondent if they fail, if they try and quit that behavior too. However, we still encourage people to stop smoking.
It is important that they stop for their health, and it, in terms of those in the public eye is a meaningful thing to avoid as a rolemodel.

Again, they are not depressed by weightloss, they are depressed by failing to partake in the dangerous/excessive behavior that causes pleasure. This neuro/chemical imbalance is something we have remedies for. Thanks Pharma!

The normalization of obesity is a problem. The letter while technically unkind was done in a calm and constructive manner.
This woman IS in the public eye, and she does have the capacity to change her appearance.

People in this thread have drawn all sorts of parallels that just do not work, such as homosexuality.
A proper parallel would be something that is negative to her health, negative to the health of those that choose to follow her example, and something that is remediable...
Her obesity, by overwhelming odds is likely to be a behavioral issue, not a medical issue.

Therefore a more proper parallel would be her smoking while in front of the camera. Its not healthy, it is difficult but possible to modify the behavior, and it sets a poor example.
Do we bully people every time we tell them not to smoke? This woman did not appreciate being eluded to as fat. End of story, this guy wrote her a letter. He didn't soapbox in front of her kids school.