So what if she's an aid worker. You dont need to be an expert in Islam and palestinian law to know whether people are wealthy, depressed, suffering and so on. In fact an aid worker would probably be more reliable than an "expert" on palestinian law and islam.

In reply to your comment:
“The woman in question is an aid worker - not an expert on Islamic law or the Israel/Palestine situation. Watch this:

http://www.videosift.com/video/Hagel-Tells-it-Like-it-Is

Finally an American senator speaks the truth - about Iraq, the suppression of the Palestinians and the real motivation for acts of terrorism by so called Muslim extremists.


In reply to your comment:
“Why do you say the article is a load of rubbish? The author of the article is a Pakistani Muslim. Are you going to tell me that she made up the information? Unless the article has been completely fabricated there is no way to discredit it. This author doesnt have a reputation for making things up.

In reply to your comment:
“That times article is a load of rubbish - the typical line you get from people who like to paint all Muslims as crazy fanaticals. This article is much better:

http://blogs.guardian.co.uk/news/archives/2006/08/11/what_really_motivates_suicide_bombers.html

Professor Robert Pape of the University of Chicago the author of Dying to Win: The Strategic Logic of Suicide Terrorism, who has conducted the most in-depth research into the motivations of suicide bombers argues that the Martydom explanation of suicide bombing is totally wrong.

His main conclusion is that suicide bombing is less about religious fundamentalism than secular or political grievances:

"There's a faulty premise in the current strategy on the war on terrorism. That faulty premise is that suicide terrorism and al- Qaida suicide terrorism in particular is mainly driven by an evil ideology Islamic fundamentalism independent of other circumstances.

However, the facts are that since 1980, suicide terrorist attacks from around the world over half have been secular. What over 95% of suicide attacks around the world [are about] is not religion, but a specific strategic purpose - to compel modern democracies to withdraw military forces from the territory that the terrorists view as their homeland or prize greatly and this is, in fact, a centrepiece of al-Qaida's strategic logic, which is to compel the United States and western countries to abandon military commitments on the Arabian peninsula."

Those who oppose Palestine, and support America's presence in the Middle East like to piant a picture of crazy religious fanatics who are motivated solely by religion - this way they can condemn their actions off-hand while ignoring their true motivations.”””

Why do you say the article is a load of rubbish? The author of the article is a Pakistani Muslim. Are you going to tell me that she made up the information? Unless the article has been completely fabricated there is no way to discredit it. This author doesnt have a reputation for making things up.

In reply to your comment:
“That times article is a load of rubbish - the typical line you get from people who like to paint all Muslims as crazy fanaticals. This article is much better:

http://blogs.guardian.co.uk/news/archives/2006/08/11/what_really_motivates_suicide_bombers.html

Professor Robert Pape of the University of Chicago the author of Dying to Win: The Strategic Logic of Suicide Terrorism, who has conducted the most in-depth research into the motivations of suicide bombers argues that the Martydom explanation of suicide bombing is totally wrong.

His main conclusion is that suicide bombing is less about religious fundamentalism than secular or political grievances:

"There's a faulty premise in the current strategy on the war on terrorism. That faulty premise is that suicide terrorism and al- Qaida suicide terrorism in particular is mainly driven by an evil ideology Islamic fundamentalism independent of other circumstances.

However, the facts are that since 1980, suicide terrorist attacks from around the world over half have been secular. What over 95% of suicide attacks around the world [are about] is not religion, but a specific strategic purpose - to compel modern democracies to withdraw military forces from the territory that the terrorists view as their homeland or prize greatly and this is, in fact, a centrepiece of al-Qaida's strategic logic, which is to compel the United States and western countries to abandon military commitments on the Arabian peninsula."

Those who oppose Palestine, and support America's presence in the Middle East like to piant a picture of crazy religious fanatics who are motivated solely by religion - this way they can condemn their actions off-hand while ignoring their true motivations.”

Why do you say the article is a load of rubbish? The author of the article is a Pakistani Muslim. Are you going to tell me that she made up the information? Unless the article has been completely fabricated then there is no way to discredit it. This author doesnt have a reputation for making things up.

Believe it or not, suffering, poverty, and the occupation are not the main motivators in palestinians committing terrorist attacks. Its martydom.

Here's an excerpt of an article written by Nasra Hassan, a Pakistani Muslim:
SINCE 1982, I have been an international relief worker. In 1996 I was posted to the Gaza Strip during one of the most vicious cycles of suicide bombings. To understand why certain young men voluntarily blow themselves up in the name of Islam, I began, without official sponsorship, to research their backgrounds and the beliefs that had led them to such extreme tactics.

From 1996 to 1999, I interviewed nearly 250 people involved in the most militant camps of the Palestinian cause: volunteers who, like S, had been unable to complete their suicide missions, the families of dead bombers, and the men who trained them.

None of the suicide bombers — they ranged in age from 18 to 38 — conformed to the typical profile of the suicidal personality. None of them was uneducated, desperately poor, simple-minded, or depressed. Many were middle-class and held paying jobs. Two were the sons of millionaires. They all seemed entirely normal members of their families. They were polite and serious, and in their communities were considered to be model youths. Most were bearded. All were deeply religious.

The bomber’s family and the sponsoring organisation celebrate his martyrdom with festivities, as if it were a wedding. Hundreds of guests congregate at the house to offer congratulations. The hosts serve the juices and sweets that the young man specified in his will. Often, the mother will ululate in joy over the honour that Allah has bestowed upon her family.

Read the full article here http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,7-1692606,00.html

I am looking into the Article on jordanian citizenship and the possibility that I received incorrect information. However, my point still stands. Israel is not guilty of apartheid as the country has a policy of not discriminating against muslims and christians as I mentioned in the quote from Barak.

In reply to your comment:
“Article III(2) of Jordanian Law No. 6 of 1954 on Nationality (last amended 1987) states that: "Any person who, not being Jewish, possessed Palestinian nationality before 15 May 1948 and was a regular resident in the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan between 20 December 1949 and 16 February 1954."

There is no provision in the Jordanian citizenship laws that discriminates against Jews - simply for being Jewish. Jordan was flooded by Palestinian refugees after they were forced off their own land by the Jewish army, Irgun and Haganah. This huge influx of refugees left Jordan with a difficult situation. It gave citizenship to non-Jews because otherwise they would have been stateless. However, Jewish people who possessed Palestinian citizenship before 1948 were not stateless and had citizenship of a new country - Israel.

In reply to your comment:
“Ok I'm back from my mini vacation with my kids. Damn there are so many comments here and I dont have time to deal with all of them. I hate when these things come up when I'm on vacation.

Farhad, Joedirt and others, Palestinians are not Israeli citizens. If you want to argue that Israel is praticing apartheid then be prepared to criticise every arab country in the region. While Israel is not perfect it is a secular pluralistic society that accepts all religions. In contrast to many Arab countries that have declared Islam to be the state religion. Anyone in the world can become Israeli. Jordon has a law barring only Jews from becoming citizens and Jews and christians are descriminated against and are not provided with the same rights as muslims in every Arab country.

In 2002 the Israeli Supreme Court ruled that the government of Israel is not allowed to allocate land based on religion or race. Here is a quote from Israels Chief jusstice Aharon Barak "The principle of equality prohibts the state from distinquishing between its citizens on the basis of religion or nationality...The Jewish character of the state does not permit Israel to discriminate between its citizens"

Critisizing Israel is one thing, singling out Israel is anti-semitic

””

New York Times May 21, 2003
"A would-be suicide bomber hid three times in an ambulance in a bid to get past Israeli troops...He then joined forces with a 40yr old woman, mother of three, who strapped a bomb to her chest and accompanied him on a taxi ride."

One can only imagine how they threatened this woman to get her to strap a bomb to her chest.

Here's more:
Arabs using an UN Ambulance for Terrorism
14 year old Suicide Bomber
Red-cross ambulance carrys a suicide bomber belt

Some things I should mention though. The Haganah, another Israeli underground militia, was very much against the tactics of the Irgun and disassociated themselves from them after the bombing of the Kind David hotel.

Many of Irgun's attacks were unacceptable and rationalizing today's behavior of palestinian terrorists by comparing them to the Irgun is just as unacceptable.

Interesting title, except that the Irgun was established after the 1929 Hebron Massacre in which Arab rioters massacred 67 Jews in Hebron. (It says so in your wiki link above.) As a result the Jews of Hebron were forced to leave.

Wikipedia - 1929 Hebron massacre
"The survivors of the massacre were forced to flee the community, and their property was occupied by Arabs until after the Six Day War of 1967."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1929_Hebron_massacre

So who were the first terrorists of the 20th Century?

"Israel is well known for treating its Arab population as second class citizens."

Gwaa, no one said Israel is perfect. Ofcourse there will be some level of discrimination against arabs. That may never change. It just so happens that Israeli settlers and a lot of orthodox israelis are discriminted against as well. I've heard first hand from Israelis that many of them dont like first Arabs, second orthodox jews. In fact one secular Israeli who was removed from Gaza as part of the disengagement was declined housing in a secular settlement inside Israel because he was classified as a gaza settler and they didnt want his type around.

So there's discrimination. It doesnt mean its apartheid.

Gwaa, no one said Israel is perfect. Ofcourse there will be some level of discrimination against arabs. That may never change. It just so happens that Israeli settlers and a lot of orthodox israelis are discriminted against as well. I've heard first hand from Israelis that many of them dont like first Arabs, second orthodox jews. In fact one secular Israeli who was removed from Gaza as part of the disengagement was declined housing in a secular settlement inside Israel because he was classified as a gaza settler and they didnt want his type around.

So there's discrimination. It doesnt mean its apartheid.

In reply to your comment:
“In response to your ill-informed comments: "If you want to argue that Israel is an apartheid nation then prove it by showing how it discriminates and racially segregates its OWN citizens."

It always annoys me when people say that Israel is the only democracy in the Middle East. Firstly, this is just factually wrong, for example Kuwait is a democracy. Secondly, democracy does not simply mean the rule of the majority. A democracy is also measured by the way the majority treat the minorities - how they protect minority rights.

Israel is well known for treating its Arab population as second class citizens. In fact during the recent invasion of Lebanon, the majority of people killed by Hezbollah rockets in northern Israel were Arabs who were not given access to bomb shelters. Assad Ghanem, senior lecturer in political science at Israel's Haifa University has argued that "This is not a democracy, it is an ethnocracy...We are not full citizens, this country is only for the Jews." Arab Israelis now make up 20 percent of Israel's six million-plus population, but until very recently there was not a single Arab minister (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/6254691.stm). The appointment of the first Arab minister is an important step, and one which should be applauded - but the backlash from many areas of the Israeli public shows what a divisive issue this is in Israel.

Formally, Israeli law guarantees equality to Israeli Arabs, but in reality Israeli Arabs experience discrimination in many aspects of life. A report by an Israeli judge (Theodor Or) who wrote 'The Report by the State Commission of Inquiry into the Events of October 2000', stated that:

"The Arab citizens of Israel live in a reality in which they experience discrimination as Arabs. This inequality has been documented in a large number of professional surveys and studies, has been confirmed in court judgments and government resolutions, and has also found expression in reports by the state comptroller and in other official documents. Although the Jewish majority’s awareness of this discrimination is often quite low, it plays a central role in the sensibilities and attitudes of Arab citizens. This discrimination is widely accepted, both within the Arab sector and outside it, and by official assessments, as a chief cause of agitation." Furthermore, the Orr Commission of Inquiry's report stated that the "Government handling of the Arab sector has been primarily neglectful and discriminatory", that the Government "did not show sufficient sensitivity to the needs of the Arab population, and did not take enough action to allocate state resources in an equal manner." As a result, "serious distress prevailed in the Arab sector in various areas. Evidence of distress included poverty, unemployment, a shortage of land, serious problems in the education system, and substantially defective infrastructure.'"

The National Committee for the Heads of the Arab Local Authorities in Israel addressed the unequal treatment of Israeli Arabs in a document produced in December 2006. They argued that: "The Israeli legal system includes a number of core laws that produce and reinforce inequality between the Arabs and the Jews in Israel (de jure) ... The official bias is not restricted to symbols such as the Israeli flag, but also to deeper legal issues concerning all Palestinian Arabs ... [t]he official definition of Israel as a Jewish state created a fortified ideological barrier in the face of obtaining full equality for the Palestinian Arab citizens of Israel ... We, the Palestinians in Israel, are an integral part of this place ... Israel has tried over the past decades to disengage us from this place, not through physical transfer but through intellectual emotional transfer. Israel has tried to create a new identity on the basis of 'loyalty to the state' ... The State has not determined a position acceptable to us yet in terms of nurturing our Arab culture."”

Ok I'm back from my mini vacation with my kids. Damn there are so many comments here and I dont have time to deal with all of them. I hate when these things come up when I'm on vacation.

Farhad, Joedirt and others, Palestinians are not Israeli citizens. If you want to argue that Israel is praticing apartheid then be prepared to criticise every arab country in the region. While Israel is not perfect it is a secular pluralistic society that accepts all religions. In contrast to many Arab countries that have declared Islam to be the state religion. Anyone in the world can become Israeli. Jordon has a law barring only Jews from becoming citizens and Jews and christians are descriminated against and are not provided with the same rights as muslims in every Arab country.

In 2002 the Israeli Supreme Court ruled that the government of Israel is not allowed to allocate land based on religion or race. Here is a quote from Israels Chief jusstice Aharon Barak "The principle of equality prohibts the state from distinquishing between its citizens on the basis of religion or nationality...The Jewish character of the state does not permit Israel to discriminate between its citizens"

Critisizing Israel is one thing, singling out Israel is anti-semitic

"But, yes a little research will astound you how much money supports Israel and their nuclear arsenal."

Yes, J.D., Israel does recieve a lot in foreign aid and so does Egypt. If you recall the ringleader and four other hijackers in the 9/11 atacks came from Egypt.

I mentioned above why Israel get so much. Its beccause they give so much to the US in return. Certainly a lot more than any other country receiving foreign aid.

Ok, I'm back from my mini vacation with my kids.

I have a few comments about this above video. The US has a very good reason for strong support of Israel. Its the only democratic country in the region, its a pluralistic society that welcomes all religions, it provides the US with a wealth of intelligience information more than anyone could possible imagine. And it provides tons of technologocal knowledge and data. The US invests tons of military reasearch in Israel.

"There is a reason politicians dont want US support for Israel listed as the root cause of al qaeda's terrorism"

The US is fully justified in supporting Israel and shouldnt have to re-asses their foreign policy because of extremists. I think people should be concerned about the psychlogical instability of radical muslims. This is the reason why 9/11 happened. Everytime they are offended or upset about something it seems they have to react violently. There's no excuse for killing thousands of innocents and trying to focus on what motivated them is just an attempt to place the blame somewhere else, in this case Israel. Thats why politicians dont want US support of Irael as the root cause for terrorism. Its irrelevant.

Except if you have no other choice.

Very insightful comment. Thanks Theo.

Let me guess, you're anti-american, anti-Israel, you believe Bush is one of the worlds worst villians, Iran, Iraq, and Palestine are peaceful entities suffering endless aggression from the real terrorists i.e. Israel and the west and ofcourse how can I forget this one, Israel is the largest obstacle to world peace.

Thank god I'm the stupid one.