I hold myself in pretty high regard, but I will never, ever measure up to her in words or deeds.

Whatever, man. Michael Jackson could dance-fight them all at once with one gloved hand tied behind his back. Now that's ultra hardcore!

Baera, he's the reason why the "ignore" button was invented. I just used mine for the first time, and boy, does it ever feel good.

He looks like an MTV "VJ" in that outfit.

>> ^qruelthis post seemed to work so good in another thread I thought I'd try it out again :-)

My guess is that you're inadvertently fighting fire with fire. Isn't the internet awesome?

I placed my emphasis there because I believe a simple proponent organization is less biased than an organization that appears to directly oppose the other side, that's all. You're reading way too far into my writing if you think that means I think Hamas is totally innocent. I think I said as much in the very comment that you were quoting.

In reply to this comment by bcglorf:

Virtually every post is not just pro-Israel, but anti Hamas.


I'm not familiar with camera either, so I'm inclined to believe it is biased towards Israel. I'd just point out you have your emphasis wrong. A media source with only pro-Israel posts I wouldn't trust. A media source with only anti-Hamas posts though I would have fewer problems with. Until Hamas comes out and does something positive they deserve every condemnation they receive.

And for the millionth time, yes condemn Israel for civilian casualties, but for the love of humanity don't abdicate Hamas of responsibility for it as well. The world needs to condemn BOTH the ones using human shields AND the ones firing at them anyways.

>> ^kulpims:
every time facts come up, you guys shout bias, defending yourself from reality


I hadn't heard of CAMERA before, so I was curious if they really were neutral, as they say in their org description.

Then I saw this:

http://blog.camera.org/

Virtually every post is not just pro-Israel, but anti Hamas. I'm sorry, but that pretty much invalidates them as a trustworthy source. Any reasonable person would agree that neither side is blameless.

>> ^Pprt:
...there's no reason they all can't.

You can't possibly be serious...

Terrible indeed, but I really don't see how the same agency sans $25M will do a better job of preventing things like this in the future.

From our good buddy Wikipedia:

Galloway is perhaps best known for his vigorous campaign to overturn economic sanctions against Iraq in the 1990s and early 2000s and to avert the 2003 invasion of that country. He made visits there in 1994 and 2002. As part of a speech in his 1994 visit in which Iraqi dictator Saddam Hussein was in attendance, he said "Sir, I salute your courage, your strength, your indefatigability", although Galloway has always stated that he was addressing the Iraqi people, and that he is not an admirer of Saddam.

From Daoud Kuttab's article "Ten Myths About Gaza":

Myth # 9 Israel wants to weaken Hamas

Another Israeli myth is that the campaign aims at weakening Hamas. Amos Gilad, a senior Israeli Defense Ministry official, told Israel Radio the goal is to weaken the movement.

While the Israelis will certainly weaken the movement military at the present time, it has already raised their public stature in Palestine and the Arab world. Hamas whose public standing was deteriorating because of its difficulty to govern has now become popular as they are seen as heroes who are standing up to the Israeli military machine. As a movement Hamas can't be destroyed even if many of its leaders are killed. Furthermore, Hamas's hard-line political position has caused a major set back to moderate Arab leaders especially those in Arab countries who have a peace treaty with Israel.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/daoud-kuttab/ten-myths-about-gaza_b_155182.html

Thanks for posting this, Farhad. I wish the American media had this level of honesty. It's sad that this this will probably go unheard and unseen by the people who most need to see and hear it.

>> ^deathcow:
negotiations are useless, these people will never negotiate peace, only death and destruction will come from there, and they will need to bomb and kill themselves into submission


That's a startlingly selective reading of history you have there. Read up:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peace_process_in_the_Israeli%E2%80%93Palestinian_conflict

>> ^mxxcon:
>> ^joedirt:
They fly F16s we gave to them overhead. The sonic booms have caused hearing losses in most of the teenagers who are currently prisoners inside a walled/fenced in occupied territory.

show independently confirmed documented proof of that, otherwise you are a liar.


1. http://abcnews.go.com/WNT/story?id=1453692
2. http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/palestinians-terrorised-by-sonic-boom-flights-513697.html
3. http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/641839.html
4. http://www.4hearingloss.com/archives/2006/07/sonic_boom_dama.html

etc.

>> ^bcglorf:

Only replying once, because I really don't care for internet arguments, but here goes:

Yes, it's obvious that they are holding back from their full potential. It's widely understood that they have nuclear arms, and I have yet to see pictures of a mushroom cloud over the strip. Clearly they could do more damage if they wanted to, and they could be less discriminate about civilian casualties.

On the other hand, they've caused injuries to over 1,500 people already. Aside from cost to life and limb, the IDF has caused considerable infrastructure damage to a place that was already in precarious third world conditions.

If you honestly think that Israel does its best to minimize civilian casualties, then please explain this:
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/761781.html

The reason they aren't going farther is because they're playing politics. The world wouldn't be able to ignore it, and the US wouldn't be able to back it if Israel decided to "turn Gaza into a giant glass crater." Without US support, they fall. Therefore, they won't obliterate Gaza in one swift strike because they can't, so long as they too wish to survive as a country.

Killing civilians is deplorable, and war is deplorable, end of story. I have less sympathy for Israel in this conflict because they're the aggressors. Take a look at a few historical maps, and its pretty clear that Israel simply wants more territory. Hamas leaders have repeatedly stated that they could co-exist with Israel as defined in the Camp David Accords. The only problem is that Israel isn't interested in honoring that agreement.

Israel has Palestine backed into such a corner that parents can't properly feed their children, it's unsafe for people to walk their own streets, and unemployment in the country is over 20%. How can you possibly be surprised that parts of the populace want to strike back at their common enemy? Do you think they'd still be firing rockets blindly at towns if they had US-made F-16s of their own?