Looking at the condition of the bike afterward, I'm a bit surprised the rider got up so quickly. The 17 year old driver appears to be in the running for Ultimate AssHat ... wouldn't be shocked at all to learn that he was interacting with a mobile device or doing something else distracting.

>> ^toferyu:

Just to clear things up : the hit'n runner was the teen, the bicyclist was 50, which actually explains everything :-P (from news article)
"Bethlehem Police Commissioner Jason Schiffer and Mayor John Callahan honored Richard Gubish Jr., 43, of Northampton, and Jud Smull, 17, of Bethlehem during a news conference this afternoon to commend their quick thinking.
“I’m just glad I got there quick,” said Gubish before the event, his hands stuffed in his LANTA jacket.
Frank Pavlick, 50, of Bethlehem, was hit Monday afternoon by a 17-year-old driver in the northbound lanes of the Fahy Bridge."


Ohh good catch.

Just to clear things up : the hit'n runner was the teen, the bicyclist was 50, which actually explains everything :-P (from news article)

"Bethlehem Police Commissioner Jason Schiffer and Mayor John Callahan honored Richard Gubish Jr., 43, of Northampton, and Jud Smull, 17, of Bethlehem during a news conference this afternoon to commend their quick thinking.
“I’m just glad I got there quick,” said Gubish before the event, his hands stuffed in his LANTA jacket.
Frank Pavlick, 50, of Bethlehem, was hit Monday afternoon by a 17-year-old driver in the northbound lanes of the Fahy Bridge."

I have nothing to gain by defending Zimmerman, with the exception of pointing out the usual media bias as they crucify him.

I offered up a flawed scenario of what might have happened, minus the full range of facts (which no one has at this time). Why did I suggest 'Evil Zimmerman' is a radical leftist theory? Because they're the ones that insist America is (still) an evil place inhabited by nothing but racists, and since Zimmerman is not Black--the only race that according to the left can "never" be considered racist--Zimmerman is therefore an evil racist.

The lower-than-whaleshit non-FOX media have turned this into a media frenzy, and don't think His Earness isn't grateful for the chaos, it takes attention off the shitconomy and soaring gas prices.

The question is NOT, "Did a kid deserve to end his life over this?" and if it is, you'd better be prepared for the answer to POSSIBLY be Yes. The non-Fox media have been very careful to only show the pics of 12-year-old Trayvon, not the 17-year old posing as a thug, tweeting about hassling Whitey, who physically is more than capable of killing someone.


Zimmerman could end up being as twisted as Dexter, otherwise I don't see a motive for his actions. It's one thing to pretend one is a bigshot, a whole other game to actually (needlessly) put oneself in a life-or-death situ where control is literally guaranteed to be lost in an instant.


>> ^VoodooV:

QM and Pennypacker resort to strawmans as usual. flinging terms like "radical left" without consequence. The sift needs some serious moderation around here.
No one has convicted Zimmerman...end of story, get that bullshit out of your heads. It really is quite irrelevant who the attacker is. The real question is:
Did a kid deserve to have his life ended over this? And the answer is most assuredly...
NO!!
It truly is despicable that this has turned into a left v right issue. This is the sort of thing that should be uniting us, not dividing us. EVERYONE, left and right should be ashamed.

So @Darkhand.

Do you still think Zimmerman was justified in murdering a 17 year old kid?

I'm sorry but there is evidence to the contrary

http://www.cnn.com/video/?hpt=hp_t1#/video/bestoftv/2012/03/27/ac-kth-trayvon-martin-witness.cnn

^ Eye Witness Backing up Zimmerman's side of the story

and

http://www.cnn.com/video/?hpt=hp_t1#/video/bestoftv/2012/03/27/ac-george-zimmerman-friend.cnn

^ are you going to call this Black man a Racist Sympathizer too?

Look I'm not going to debate this with you endlessly because it's not my job to play devils advocate for a man I don't know. I'm not sure how you can know 100% of everything that happened considering you were not there. If you still don't feel any different after those then just leave me alone man.

>> ^GenjiKilpatrick:

Listen to the 911 call Zimmerman made.
http://videosift.com/video/Trayvons-Murderer-says-fucking-coon
s-2-21-in-911-call
He's on the phone staring down Trayvon as he walks up.
Zimmerman says "he's coming to check me out" as Trayvon gets closer.
"These asshole's, they always get away" "he's running" then under his breath "fuckin' coons" and you can hear Zimmerman chasing Trayvon.
Dispatcher: 'Are you following him?'
George: "Yeah."
Dispatcher: 'Okay, we don't need you to do that."
They then talk about where the police officers will meet George.
George ask if the police can call him.. as if he was going to follow and/or detain Trayvon until the officers arrived.
It's clear Zimmerman is a racist.
It's clear Trayvon was attempting avoid Zimmerman.
It's clear Zimmerman wasn't going to let Trayvon get away.
It's clear Zimmerman murdered an unarmed 17 year old boy.
What more do you need to know? George hunted and murdered a black kid for "looking suspicious."
Just admit Zimmerman is a murder.
Admit he should be held in prison until he's put on trial.
And admit you're wrong for trying to defend a child murdered.

Listen to the 911 call Zimmerman made.

http://videosift.com/video/Trayvons-Murderer-says-fucking-coons-2-21-in-911-call

He's on the phone staring down Trayvon as he walks up.

Zimmerman says "he's coming to check me out" as Trayvon gets closer.

"These asshole's, they always get away" "he's running" then under his breath "fuckin' coons" and you can hear Zimmerman chasing Trayvon.

Dispatcher: 'Are you following him?'
George: "Yeah."
Dispatcher: 'Okay, we don't need you to do that."

They then talk about where the police officers will meet George.

George ask if the police can call him.. as if he was going to follow and/or detain Trayvon until the officers arrived.

It's clear Zimmerman is a racist.
It's clear Trayvon was attempting avoid Zimmerman.
It's clear Zimmerman wasn't going to let Trayvon get away.
It's clear Zimmerman murdered an unarmed 17 year old boy.

What more do you need to know? George hunted and murdered a black kid for "looking suspicious."

Just admit Zimmerman is a murder.
Admit he should be held in prison until he's put on trial.
And admit you're wrong for trying to defend a child murdered.

>> ^Porksandwich:

>> ^Darkhand:
>> ^GenjiKilpatrick:
@Darkhand.
Did you even listen to Cenk's point?
A heavy adult male with a gun stalks an unarmed teen, then claim self-defense..
What logic are you using to conclude Zimmerman is somehow not guilt of murder?
What if Zimmerman had stalked a 17 year old white girl, then shot her dead after she fought back?
What you need to see more evidence then?

Someone stalking you, whether anyone likes it or not, is not a just cause for you to turn around and beat the crap out of them.
If Martin turned around and punched him and knocked him on his ass I think that would have been a justifiable amount of force. But continuing to beat on him as some people suggesting to "knock him out" you don't understand how the body works. You can't tell the difference between "Oh yeah I knocked him out" and "Awesome! Internal bleeding and his brain is swelling now I can get away".
Does everyone here really believe because Zimmerman was being over zealous they feel he deserves to get knocked down and have someone sit on top of him and continuously punch him in the head?

According to the SYG law, which they claim let's Zimmerman walk away with no charges. Yes Trayvon had the right to defend himself from a pursuer if he felt that he was in danger. The level of damage he could inflict was dependent on how much danger he thought he was in. The law defines everything as "reasonable" for the level it has to meet. If someone chased you down in a vehicle, you escaped him and he continued looking until he found you again. That to me is reasonable grounds to assume this person means you harm.
Plus, I still have trouble fathoming how Trayvon got within striking distance of Zimmerman in the first place. I find it entirely unlikely that he would approach his stalker. So I believe that Zimmerman cornered him or caught him in a hiding spot. It just never would have happened if Zimmerman would have 1) not followed him 2) not got out of his vehicle.
And I'll just throw this out, carrying a gun carries with it a certain expectation that you will use said gun otherwise carrying it will end up getting you shot if you draw and don't use it. I think Zimmerman felt confident due to his gun and his willingness to use it. Substitute any other rational adult and they would not hunt down a kid and approach him to within striking distance, it's too predatory to continue forward once you've gotten within speaking distance of someone who has tried to evade you once already. Keep in mind that Trayvon had not committed a crime to warrant the amount of attention Zimmerman was giving him, nor the need to approach him beyond the distance a loud speaking or even shouting voice would carry. I certainly would not approach a kid on public property who ran away from me initially. I may be more inclined to hunt them down if they were on my private property or in a dangerous area, but neither of those fit this scenario.
The act of pursuing someone who is trying to get away is by it's nature aggressive. Martin had the right to defend himself from a stranger demonstrating aggressive behavior. The language and frustration Zimmerman expressed on the phone call also suggests he was not pleased to have someone get away on his watch, and perhaps semi-racist in nature.
On the flip side. If Trayvon had chased Zimmerman and still ended up shot to death, would this conversation even be happening? Trayvon would have been provoking the encounter and even if he never laid a finger on Zimmerman, the law states you can use deadly force if you believe someone means to great bodily harm or commit a felony.
It's a joke that Zimmerman has the right to "defend himself" with deadly force, in an encounter he forced upon a teenager against all advice and all material that Zimmerman had presented at a neighborhood watch meeting. The presenter came forward and spoke about it. Under the law he has to meet criteria as the aggressor. I do not believe the police have released information showing he fulfilled those criteria, and his immunity under SYG should be forfeit.
The language on the call "coon", the lack of a tox screen, and the various other screw ups by police. PLUS not holding him until they at least interviewed everyone they could find within a block of the shooting. Now all of those people are potentially tainted by Zimmerman's presence, the media coverage, and the bias of the sources of this information. It's up to the second investigation to hopefully see that they screwed the pooch and see if it was because they are incompetent, racist, or covering up for Zimmerman.
I don't blame anyone for being outrageously pissed and concerned over this. It essentially means you can walk down the street, stalk any lone person, and shoot them dead if they have anything in their hand you can claim looked like a gun or say anything like "I'll kill you...........................if you come any closer." Just the last part won't make it out of their mouth if you have your gun good and ready to blow a hole in them.


Pork that's the problem though even your own article says "I have my doubts, I don't see how" but we don't know all the facts.

This law should not be under scrutiny until it's actually used and if it actually gets zimmerman off.

And the problem with your Theory about Martin being able to continuously pummel Zimmerman while he is on the ground is not true. Once Zimmerman is on his back the "Perceived Threat" is neutralized. It works the same way here in jersey with self defense but I can't use a gun. I answer force with equal force. Once my opponent is disabled I can't keep wailing on them.

Being stalked, in my opinion, does not allow you to feel like your life is in danger. Martin used his cellphone to text his girlfriend, why didn't he call the cops and try to get help?

But then again I'm not a lawyer OR a judge and nobody else is. So everything I say here could be wrong. We don't have all the facts so anyone claiming to know EXACTLY what happened is wrong.

It's just funny because it seems to me that liberals are siding with Martin and Conservatives and siding with Zimmerman. Everyone seems to have their own set of "Facts" and nobody is willing to believe that their own side (Liberal Media or Conservative Media) is injecting facts that may or may not be 100% credible into the case.

Everyone seems to be using this case as a means to push their own policy whether it's gun control reform, minority rights, or personal security. Everyone seems to just be ignoring the tragedy that some kid has had the rest of his life taken from him. Because really that's all we do know!

>> ^Darkhand:

>> ^GenjiKilpatrick:
@Darkhand.
Did you even listen to Cenk's point?
A heavy adult male with a gun stalks an unarmed teen, then claim self-defense..
What logic are you using to conclude Zimmerman is somehow not guilt of murder?
What if Zimmerman had stalked a 17 year old white girl, then shot her dead after she fought back?
What you need to see more evidence then?

Someone stalking you, whether anyone likes it or not, is not a just cause for you to turn around and beat the crap out of them.
If Martin turned around and punched him and knocked him on his ass I think that would have been a justifiable amount of force. But continuing to beat on him as some people suggesting to "knock him out" you don't understand how the body works. You can't tell the difference between "Oh yeah I knocked him out" and "Awesome! Internal bleeding and his brain is swelling now I can get away".
Does everyone here really believe because Zimmerman was being over zealous they feel he deserves to get knocked down and have someone sit on top of him and continuously punch him in the head?


According to the SYG law, which they claim let's Zimmerman walk away with no charges. Yes Trayvon had the right to defend himself from a pursuer if he felt that he was in danger. The level of damage he could inflict was dependent on how much danger he thought he was in. The law defines everything as "reasonable" for the level it has to meet. If someone chased you down in a vehicle, you escaped him and he continued looking until he found you again. That to me is reasonable grounds to assume this person means you harm.

Plus, I still have trouble fathoming how Trayvon got within striking distance of Zimmerman in the first place. I find it entirely unlikely that he would approach his stalker. So I believe that Zimmerman cornered him or caught him in a hiding spot. It just never would have happened if Zimmerman would have 1) not followed him 2) not got out of his vehicle.

And I'll just throw this out, carrying a gun carries with it a certain expectation that you will use said gun otherwise carrying it will end up getting you shot if you draw and don't use it. I think Zimmerman felt confident due to his gun and his willingness to use it. Substitute any other rational adult and they would not hunt down a kid and approach him to within striking distance, it's too predatory to continue forward once you've gotten within speaking distance of someone who has tried to evade you once already. Keep in mind that Trayvon had not committed a crime to warrant the amount of attention Zimmerman was giving him, nor the need to approach him beyond the distance a loud speaking or even shouting voice would carry. I certainly would not approach a kid on public property who ran away from me initially. I may be more inclined to hunt them down if they were on my private property or in a dangerous area, but neither of those fit this scenario.

The act of pursuing someone who is trying to get away is by it's nature aggressive. Martin had the right to defend himself from a stranger demonstrating aggressive behavior. The language and frustration Zimmerman expressed on the phone call also suggests he was not pleased to have someone get away on his watch, and perhaps semi-racist in nature.

On the flip side. If Trayvon had chased Zimmerman and still ended up shot to death, would this conversation even be happening? Trayvon would have been provoking the encounter and even if he never laid a finger on Zimmerman, the law states you can use deadly force if you believe someone means to great bodily harm or commit a felony.

It's a joke that Zimmerman has the right to "defend himself" with deadly force, in an encounter he forced upon a teenager against all advice and all material that Zimmerman had presented at a neighborhood watch meeting. The presenter came forward and spoke about it. Under the law he has to meet criteria as the aggressor. I do not believe the police have released information showing he fulfilled those criteria, and his immunity under SYG should be forfeit.

The language on the call "coon", the lack of a tox screen, and the various other screw ups by police. PLUS not holding him until they at least interviewed everyone they could find within a block of the shooting. Now all of those people are potentially tainted by Zimmerman's presence, the media coverage, and the bias of the sources of this information. It's up to the second investigation to hopefully see that they screwed the pooch and see if it was because they are incompetent, racist, or covering up for Zimmerman.

I don't blame anyone for being outrageously pissed and concerned over this. It essentially means you can walk down the street, stalk any lone person, and shoot them dead if they have anything in their hand you can claim looked like a gun or say anything like "I'll kill you...........................if you come any closer." Just the last part won't make it out of their mouth if you have your gun good and ready to blow a hole in them.

>> ^GenjiKilpatrick:

@Darkhand.
Did you even listen to Cenk's point?
A heavy adult male with a gun stalks an unarmed teen, then claim self-defense..
What logic are you using to conclude Zimmerman is somehow not guilt of murder?
What if Zimmerman had stalked a 17 year old white girl, then shot her dead after she fought back?
What you need to see more evidence then?


Someone stalking you, whether anyone likes it or not, is not a just cause for you to turn around and beat the crap out of them.

If Martin turned around and punched him and knocked him on his ass I think that would have been a justifiable amount of force. But continuing to beat on him as some people suggesting to "knock him out" you don't understand how the body works. You can't tell the difference between "Oh yeah I knocked him out" and "Awesome! Internal bleeding and his brain is swelling now I can get away".

Does everyone here really believe because Zimmerman was being over zealous they feel he deserves to get knocked down and have someone sit on top of him and continuously punch him in the head?

>> ^GenjiKilpatrick:

@Darkhand.
Did you even listen to Cenk's point?
A heavy adult male with a gun stalks an unarmed teen, then claim self-defense..
What logic are you using to conclude Zimmerman is somehow not guilt of murder?
What if Zimmerman had stalked a 17 year old white girl, then shot her dead after she fought back?
What you need to see more evidence then?


I do...bitches be crazy yo.

@Darkhand.

Did you even listen to Cenk's point?

A heavy adult male with a gun stalks an unarmed teen, then claim self-defense..

What logic are you using to conclude Zimmerman is somehow not guilt of murder?

What if Zimmerman had stalked a 17 year old white girl, then shot her dead after she fought back?

What you need to see more evidence then?

It's not up to the public at large to decide if charges are warranted. It is up to the public at large whether an investigation is warranted. In that light, I would sign a petition to have Zimmerman brought in for questioning, and to have witnesses properly interrogated by an independent (non-local) police authority as the locals have already shown that they are willing to steer witnesses. >> ^DuoJet:

Please sign the petition to prosecute George Zimmerman:
http://www.change.org/petitions/prosecute-the-killer-of-17-y
ear-old-trayvon-martin

Please sign the petition to prosecute George Zimmerman:

http://www.change.org/petitions/prosecute-the-killer-of-17-year-old-trayvon-martin

Please sign the petition to prosecute George Zimmerman:

http://www.change.org/petitions/prosecute-the-killer-of-17-year-old-trayvon-martin