I wonder if we will trade one evil for another?

If private healthcare companies don't know how to to compete then maybe they don't have good business models to begin with and don't deserve to survive.

Darwin at work in the marketplace - survival of the fittest.

Jan Schakowsky is also in business: the business of getting elected and reelected. Like all statists right and left, she gets elected by promising entitlements the government has no business doling out, and ignoring the principles of a free republic.

bryce is right. But the sinister idea in our corrupt fauxtopia that "no one is allowed to fail" extends even to insurance companies.

It is NOT the responsibility of the consumer to keep a business open. The responsibility rests on the business to provide a good product that the customer wants at a reasonable price, to treat their customers with respect, and evolve with the times. If they can't do those things then they need to find a new line of work.

Do you think Apple would still be in business if they were still selling the IIGS? Do you think anyone would still volunteer to serve in the armed forces if they were still being issued muskets? What if Ford was still making the Model A and toting it as the the best thing they had to offer?

Fuck yeah.

Well put. Moar!

>> ^brycewi19:
If private healthcare companies don't know how to to compete then maybe they don't have good business models to begin with and don't deserve to survive.
Darwin at work in the marketplace - survival of the fittest.


They are complaining because they would be competing against a movement that are government sponsored, and therefore not as dependent on profit as the current insurance companies.

As far as Im concerned you shouldnt make peoples health into a business though, and lucky for me it isnt where I live

Where is *lies ?

Invocations (lies) cannot be called by pavel_one because pavel_one is not privileged - sorry.

Lies? You cant be serious. Health insurance companies are bastards. If you are a patient, their main goal is to collect your premiums and then deny you care. If you are a care provider (doctor), their main goal is to deny you payment, bargain you down on what you will accept, and delay your payment.

>> ^brycewi19:
As far as Im concerned you shouldnt make peoples health into a business though, and lucky for me it isnt where I live


We shouldn't pay doctors? Nurses? Residential care and medical office administrators? X-Ray technicians? Database managers and data entry personnel? EMT? Diagnostic technicians? Occupational/physical therapists? Medical assistants? Personal and home care aides? Health services managers? Dispensing opticians? Mental health counselors? Respiratory therapists? Human service assistants? Clinical laboratory technologists? Diagnostic medical sonographers? Pharmacy technicians? Medical records technicians? Building cleaning workers? Bookkeeping and accountants? Receptionists and information clerks? Clinical researchers? Et cetera. Et cetera. Et cetera.

Surely, it's still a business where you live; it's just a business paid for by the coerced taxes of the people as opposed to being a voluntary business.

Blankfist, I think what Vii is saying is that health care should not be a for-profit industry. Non-profit workers can still make very good wages for work they actually do. The only difference with a non-profit system is that none the patient fees would go to some rich shareholder who contributed nothing more then buying stock.

^It's nice that your list excludes all of the CEO's and other useless corporate executives/bureaucrats that skim profit off the top without providing any actual health care value, because that is precisely what a decent universal health care system would do. Bryce is clearly saying that the priorities of a health care system should not revolve around making profit, but rather providing health care. Obviously, health care professionals will always need to be compensated.

I don't see what you intend to gain by siding with the corporations and conservative drones on this one. Our corporate run system already burgles more tax dollars per capita than any of the public systems you'd find in Canada, England, Israel, etc. You don't stand to gain anything by this, other than giving corporate America another notch in its belt. Do you think they will somehow reward you for your loyalty? Again, the unbending principals of the American libertarian party laugh in the face of logic, reason and grim, meat-hook reality.

^ Uhm, you're accusing someone who defends economic freedom of doing so to side with corporations, that's like saying someone who defends freedom of expression is siding with big news and media corporations. A lot more people stand to benefit from economic freedom.

The really nasty thing about corporations is when they get in bed with government. With universal/socialized healthcare, you'll tend to get more of that going on.

The funny thing is, when you look at aspects of medical care that DO have competition (because insurance doesn't cover them, so people shop around), you see the normal progression of things becoming cheaper over time. Laser eye surgery of different flavors, for example, as well as various kinds of plastic surgery.

When you look at health care that does not have competition nor price transparency, you get ungodly high prices, even after insurance.

Here's a question for the libertarians... to revert to my statist hyperbolic ways...

Suppose I had invented a giant water collector that scooped up all the rain. Then I sold the water back to the people for hundreds of dollars a drop. Should the government be allowed to intervene, and provide its own water service? Would that be tyranny?

>> ^entr0py:
Blankfist, I think what Vii is saying is that health care should not be a for-profit industry.


Ye that was what I meant, sorry for being vague

*dead

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