Sorry. Unable to make any "librul" jokes about such a sad story. I will say this about our conservative brethren: The vast majority of them deplore such actions like these too. Outside of a few hardcore militia nuts and the Fred-Phelps types in our country, such actions are just as appalling to them as they are to us liberals. So I hope no one here starts painting all conservatives with a single brushstroke because of this horrible incident.

Oops, I forgot to close my </preachy> tag.

^ Actually, I'm at a loss for words about this. From the minute the story broke, they'd been dropping hints that this was a "hate crime" against liberals -- the first I've ever heard of. This is the first official confirmation that yes, while the guy is obviously mentally unstable, he does say he attacked the church more because it was a "liberal" church more than because it allowed gays to join the congregation.

I've been worried about how deeply divided our country is, and one of the things that's given me solace is that there doesn't seem to be any sort of violence breaking out between the different political parties, so it must not be as bad as it sometimes seems.

I'm still thinking this is an isolated incident, and not a sign that we're in for a civil war, but I do wonder if it's a symptom of watching all the conservative TV shows out there, which certainly invites people to view "liberals" as being somehow worthy of hatred.

But then, I'm the first to cry foul about school shootings being blamed on videogames, when 99.999% of people who play videogames aren't going psycho.

Still, I think if this guy was about to snap, Fox News might have just given him a convenient target for his rage.

The above is more or less my unorganized thoughts about this, and I'd love to see some discussion on this, and hear what others think about it.

I do think this was a hate crime against liberals, as the shooter himself described it as such. I also think this was an isolated incident, and not indicative of conservatives as a whole. I don't think it's any indication of the deep political divide in our country either. What my mind kept returning to was not his self-proclaimed conservative bent, but the police report stating he was unable to hold down a job.

Details from the linked story paint the picture of a proud man who once served his country and commanded some measure of respect back in the day, and who is now struggling to provide for himself and loved ones through a deepening recession and his own difficulties in finding employment. His attempted mass murder could have been sparked by increasing isolation from society and frustration at his powerlessness, causing him to turn to the last avenue he felt he had available to him. Perhaps this portrait is inaccurate, but creating it is essential; reframing the incident in broader terms risks obscuring the reality of what actually happened.

Regardless, my heart goes out to the Tennessee Valley Unitarian Universalist Church parish as a whole, and specifically to those who were injured in this shooting along with the families of those injured or killed. I pray for their personal health and the wellbeing of the community.

If you were to examine my psychological makeup, you would find that I am an idealist, who favors aspects of both liberal and conservative ideologies. I'm a firm believer in freedom of speech and I do not believe in affirmative action. I don't believe in Christianity, nor any organized religion. I am a gun owner (several in fact). I don't believe the rich should get tax breaks and also don't believe they should be taxed more heavily on their income. I do believe that people should help one another. I am a proud American, yet I don't feel the need to judge people solely on if they have a flag on their lapel, or sticking out of their ass.

However, when discussing my views I have found that conservatives tend to paint me as a liberal rather than the other way around. It's my belief that conservatives are more aggressive, while liberals tend to have a live and let live attitude. Abortion clinics are bombed, homosexuals are accosted and murdered and an entire "news" network is devoted to bashing a political ideal. Yet when have you seen a gun store burned to the ground solely because they sold guns? And I have yet to see any lynching parties go out and hang a group of "rednecks". Yes, Olbermann bashes Fox Commentary, but his is one show, not an entire network.

And yes, these are examples from the fringe. I recognize that my opinions stem most likely from run-ins with those conservatives on the fringe. I do recognize that not all conservatives fall under the shadow of the above opinions. That is blatantly obvious to anyone who critically thinks about it. It's also obvious as day-to-day, we don't see society collapsing into a political civil war.

It does not surprise me in the least that this happened...and will continue to happen. It also makes me wonder what percentage of violent offenders are conservative as opposed to liberal.

As for this douchebag who shot up the church. Just another example of someone who can't take responsibility for their own shortcomings and would rather project his own weaknesses onto them, that way he can feel justified in his actions. The smart, correct and manly thing to do would have been to realize that he was responsible for his own misfortune (ie. couldn't land a job) and either 1) adapt and change or 2) off himself. Of course, I would prefer for anybody in his situation to take first approach. But if he/she can't, then do the world a favor and remove yourself from the running rather than others.

wow.

some guy is so insane he disobeys one of the Ten Commandments in the name of "religion" and we have to DISCUSS this?

he. was. insane.

anything he said: invalid.
anything he did: random and beyond analysis.
cause: probably not buttsex. probably preachers. therefore... allow buttsex, ban preachers. and guns. and institutional child abuse (otherwise known as "school").

and now we can close the thread.

Sorry Mink, I have to disagree. No-one, and certainly not you, can lay claim to being the authority on morality and insanity. AT the end of the day the bible like many religious text tells the faithful in quite plain language to murder people for supposed offences to God. I'm not going to debate this with you or anyone. The simple fact is, it does. Thankfully the vast majority of Christian folk turn a blind eye to this contradiction in their Faith. Unfortunately, some don't.

What this man did was very far from random and even further from being "beyond analysis".

>> ^MINK:
wow.
some guy is so insane he disobeys one of the Ten Commandments in the name of "religion" and we have to DISCUSS this?

Actually no, not in the name of "religion", those stories are a dime a dozen.

He did this in the name of trying to stop the "liberal movement". To quote from the article I linked, he said:

"[He] could not get to the leaders of the liberal movement that he would then target those that had voted them in to office."

More of the same ahead as the deconstruction of the economy picks up pace? The "Angry White Male" syndrome? I think it will probably become just "Angry Person" syndrome, as more folks face foreclosure, job loss, high gas prices, closed banks. Add a little Anger Power-ups provided by talk radio, Ann Coulter, etc., and burn, baby, burn. Or something like that.

If the Columbine killers were influenced by Marylin Manson, does that mean that Bill O'Reilly will soon be campaigning for censorship of his own books?

*dead

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