AlJazeera report http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FFyi4qyZgmk

...I am so sick of war...

I wish they would attack Alabama instead...

Hold the phone. So 15 years ago, Ossetia, with a rebel government leaves Georgia independence. Now, Georgia wants it back and moves in militarily. Russia starts to take it "back" in force claiming its residents as Russians and Georgia says:

"One hundred and fifty Russian tanks, armoured personnel carriers and other vehicles have entered South Ossetia," President Saakashvili of Georgia told reporters in Tbilisi. "This is a clear intrusion on another country’s territory. We have Russian tanks on our territory, jets on our territory in broad daylight."

WTF. I know Georgia is a much closer ally to the US and the west than Russia, but still. I'm confused. We must not be getting enough history to understand this. Who the F owns this land? So far, it looks like Georgia is at fault and should have let the sleeping dog lie.

Fast Facts:
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,400046,00.html

As far as I understand it, Ossetia wants to be a sovereign nation and Russia wants to ensure that.

From BBC.
1991-92 S Ossetia fights war to break away from newly independent Georgia; Russia enforces truce
2004 Mikhail Saakashvili elected Georgian president, promising to recover lost territories
2006 S Ossetians vote for independence in unofficial referendum
April 2008 Russia steps up ties with Abkhazia and South Ossetia
July 2008 Russia admits flying jets over S Ossetia; Russia and Georgia accuse each other of military build-up
7 August 2008 After escalating Georgian-Ossetian clashes, sides agree to ceasefire
8 August 2008 Heavy fighting erupts overnight, Georgian forces close in on Tskhinvali

Southern Ossetia has always been a part of Georgia, their want to be a separate state is as ill defined as the Basque region in Spain.

Russia is using this to attack Georgia, using the term liberation force as a way to encroach on lost territories. Russia contends that it's a peacekeeping force, and will respect Georgia's sovereignty while moving attack planes and tanks in. I feared something like this when watching their May 9th military parades, the largest held in the longest time.

Adolf Hitler used the same tactic in the opening stages of World War 2, by claiming that there were Germans living in Czechoslovakia.

I can't help but think that unilateralism intervention under taken by the US has given Russia the impetus to do the same within it's own borders to reclaim pre-independence sectors.

I wonder if all the people who get so wound up about Iraq will get just as wound up about this? I doubt it a i. the US isnt involved and ii. the US isnt involved.

*doublepromote

Watching a news broadcast on Euronews, something struck me, this isn't simply an operation to secure western influienced lands by Russian forces. It represents a political and strategic reclamation of Baku-Tbilisi-Ceyhan pipeline and the route of the future Trans-Caspian Oil pipeline.

Post collapse of the Soviet union the only oil routes for central Asian and Caspian states lead directly into Russia, giving the Russians a large degree of political and strategic influence over the energy flow into Europe.

There have been countless proposals to circumvent it, the BTC pipeline and the Trans-Caspian are routes that cross Georgia and through Turkey. Other routes use Afghanistan such as the Trans-Afghanistan pipeline.

Seemingly this is a false flag operation to dominate the last really untapped reserves of oil and natural gas found in Central Asia.

Double-Promoting this video back to the front page; last published Friday, August 8th, 2008 1:19pm PDT - doublepromote requested by Farhad2000.

I think like most wars the 'noble' reason is only the justification given to other countries, and to rally their own people behind them. This goes for both sides. Free Iraq, Kill the infidels, for sovereignty, for our way of life etc etc etc.

Israel, Palestine
USA, Iraq
Russia, Georgia
China, Tibet

Agression and oppression by the superpowers around the world.

http://www.amnesty.org/en/region/europe-and-central-asia/eastern-europe/russia
http://www.amnesty.org

Yeah it seems that Russia's "aggressive" nature has not gotten the attention or really any at all here in America. Its all about Iran and nothing else like Russia is some sort of joke we conquered in ages past. Even though Putin has spoken very threateningly towards us if we attack Iran, even though Russia would ultimately fund Iran in a proxy war against us much like we did to them in Afghanistan, no one seems to care. Oh well, as the oil runs out my friends you will see just how civilized the world really is. (sorry for the downer but its true)

So Russia gets Georgia while Bush stands in Beijing chatting to Putin literally as the bombs rain down.

In return, America will get Iran.

It's all over oil and natural resources, United Nations do nothing.

One United Nations diplomat joked on Saturday that “if someone went to the Russians and said, ‘OK, Kosovo for Iran,’ we’d have a deal.”
- http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/10/world/europe/10diplo.html?em

Heard a crazy interview with BBC radio and the Russian (almost wrote Soviet) foreign minister, talking about how Georgia had "raped" the agreement they had in place, etc. etc.

I was like, "whoa, choice use of language there, buddy..."

Comment hidden because you are ignoring dag.(show it anyway)

The sad thing is that the US has lost all ethical leverage because of Iraq.

^i was going to write "hear hear"

but then i realised that not since the 1700's has America really sought "ethical leverage".... and she lost the last shred of it in Vietnam. By the time of the invasion of Iraq, i really can't say she had any left to lose.

And I would really like to know if QM is STILL ignoring the fact that this shit is all going down on top of huge reserves of natural resources, and the pipelines that emanate from them.

Living, as i do, very near a big gas pipeline through Belarussia which provides me (and half of europe) with gas for my hot shower... I get nervous when i see the overlay of oil/gas and war/liberation.

raw unedited footage from the ground inside Georgia:

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=408_1218372171

Update:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1043185/The-Pipeline-War-Russian-bear-goes-Wests-jugular.html

2 Fronts:
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/article1539064.ece

Cracking an egg with a sledge hammer, the Russian way:
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/article1540544.ece

Adding battle at sea:
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/war-30000-homeless-as-a-chaotic-conflict-intensifies-889751.html

http://apnews.myway.com/article/20080810/D92FMO4O0.html

>> ^rottenseed:
I wish they would attack Alabama instead...


Have they sacked Atlanta yet?

read an article today suggesting the aggressive move by Georgia was orchestrated by the US as a strategic diversion to keep Russia busy during a naval blockade of Iran. *shrug*

^shurely shome mishtake, shir!! how could that be?

>> ^Memorare:
read an article today suggesting the aggressive move by Georgia was orchestrated by the US as a strategic diversion to keep Russia busy during a naval blockade of Iran. shrug


Sounds like a bunch of conspiracy theory crap to me. Propaganda.

Not that anymore evidence to the fact is needed but I think this conflict will definitely show the true impotence of Bush's diplomatic abilities and overall diplomatic strategy. If he can't shmoose you or he hasn't already had you in his pocket or his fathers pocket or he doesn't have an attorney govenor who does the real heavy lifting (thats a whole other discussion) hes got nothing. Go back to watching games Mr. Bush and let the world tear itself apart around you.

As far as I understand it. South what ever its called wants to be sovreign, russia wants to ensure that. The breakaway nation to the north west wants to be sovreign too... they are attacking now. Russia egged them on.

Georgia wants to become part of NATO, as does Ukraine so the russians say Ukraine pushed for georgia to go to south what ever its called.

In short, the main reason russia attacked? DONT WANT NATO NEAR US!

Quoted form the Washington Post August 10, page A 15 "War between Georgia and Russia Intensifies" front page story: "Georgia's aspiration to join NATO...is driven by its attmept to drag other nations and peoples into its bloody adventures."

What we clearly have here is a Russian Reversal... right back to the soviet days! In modern Russia, soviet reverses you!

PS: I like to get all sides of the story, and as I read it... all of the comments above are correct in their ways.

Georgian troops were led by Israeli commanders, trained and supplied by the US. America and Britain have a lot invested in this region because of the BP oil pipeline.

It was reported on the BBC that Russia bombed the pipeline but 'missed', which sounds really dodgy to me. There's a lot more to this than any of us know.

If Israel now makes a move against Iran then we're really in trouble. American warships are now amassing in the Gulf whilst this is plastered all over the news.

remember how WWI "started" in Serbia while British troops were sent immediately to Iraq to secure the oil?

Man how tedious it is to watch humanity make the same stupid mistake again and again.

Im fucking done with these shit for brains asshats that cant let the fuckblood oil go.

This is a world were I can program an application that does cool stuff we can make videogames, and underwear with a convenient hole in the front but we cant ween ourselves off the oil.

If they change the fuel system, not gonna hurt me any. If the dollar fails, we just live through it like every thing else that's happened.

Nord,

Pull back your chair and look at your computer table. See how many things are made from, made with, made through, the usage of oil. Now look around your house.

You will realize why big business is so afraid of weening off oil.

A country boy can survive. That was along time ago.