I want to see the study. I wouldn't take Romney's unsupported word for the color of the sky.

There is so much research out there (seriously, just google "class size and academic performance")showing that smaller class sizes lead to better academic performance for pretty much every age group (including university) that you'd have to be completely out of touch with reality to claim otherwise.

Like @Stormsinger said, I suspect he's talking out of his ass and even if he wasn't, I would be willing to bet their study was full of methodological holes so big you could drive a truck through them. His description of the study alone made me facepalm, although I'm not sure how accurately he is describing what they did.

Couple of reasons why I like smaller class sizes (at the university level):

1) I get to know the students better, which allows me to give them more personalized instruction to fit their needs.
2) Students get to know each other better. In many cases, they form a support system for each other that extends beyond the classroom (study groups, social activities outside of class, etc.).
3) I can give more detailed feedback when grading if I have less assignments to grade.
4) On days when we use media equipment (computers, video recorders, etc.) there is always enough equipment to go around.

I'm sure there are more reasons. Those are the ones that came just off the top of my head.

Class size means nothing.

http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/09/11/class-size-around-the-world/

Read the article. Not saying it does not have any affect, it just means, blaming class size is bullshit. Japan and Korea have bigger class size, and they are both better performing educational system.

You know why American students are doing badly, it's combination of bad teacher, unions and parents. Unless you are ready to deal with those, changing class size isn't going to mean anything.

Let's not mince words here, there are good teacher and bad teacher. There are already shortage of teachers, so ho does smaller class size help? You're stretching already thin resources even thinner. How does that help anyone?

Lets deal with real problem. Change the system, not the class size.

I can tell you from a teacher that taught 40+ years in elementary, my mother, would tell you right off the bat that a smaller classroom will indeed lead to a better learning experience, some of which has been covered above. But, it also makes it so my mother didn't work from 6:00 A.M. till 7-9 P.M. for a job she loved and cared about.

There are many teachers that don't put in those hours (mostly due to the state and it's ridiculous expectations--this is Utah BTW) and go home early, but they also don't have the love for their job my mother had--something required if you truly want to be a great teacher.

>> ^ipfreely:

Class size means nothing.
http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/09/11/class-size-around-the-wo
rld/
Read the article. Not saying it does not have any affect, it just means, blaming class size is bullshit. Japan and Korea have bigger class size, and they are both better performing educational system.
You know why American students are doing badly, it's combination of bad teacher, unions and parents. Unless you are ready to deal with those, changing class size isn't going to mean anything.
Let's not mince words here, there are good teacher and bad teacher. There are already shortage of teachers, so ho does smaller class size help? You're stretching already thin resources even thinner. How does that help anyone?
Lets deal with real problem. Change the system, not the class size.


That article you linked to is a little deceptive and I'll explain why. It's basically trying to find a correlation between class size and performance but it doesn't control for the myriad variables between national education systems like teacher training, cultural standards, the presence (or absence) of teacher aides or other adults in the classroom, etc. It's basically comparing apples and oranges.

On the other hand, the actual empirical research that has been done on the matter (i.e. taking two groups of students of similar academic levels and backgrounds and randomly assigning them to either small-size or large-size classrooms and then tracking the progress over time) has shown that the kids do better with the small class size even after controlling for other variables (see in particular Tennessee's STAR project: http://epa.sagepub.com/content/21/2/97.short)

The key word in the last sentence is better. In other words, it doesn't turn them all into geniuses; it helps them do better than they would have otherwise.

No one is saying smaller class sizes is a cure-all to education's problems. You're right, there are a lot of other problems besides classroom size and they need to be addressed. But one way to boost performance and help students do their best is to have smaller rather than larger classroom sizes.

>> ^Stormsinger:

I want to see the study. I wouldn't take Romney's unsupported word for the color of the sky.


Well you should take anyones unsupported word. I think we can engage on this level though, I wanna see the study and an academic discussion about this. We won't see that thanks to our media.

>> ^Yogi:

>> ^Stormsinger:
I want to see the study. I wouldn't take Romney's unsupported word for the color of the sky.

Well you should take anyones unsupported word. I think we can engage on this level though, I wanna see the study and an academic discussion about this. We won't see that thanks to our media.


Maybe I shouldn't, but there -are- a few people who have earned my trust enough that I will assume from the start that they both know what they are talking about, and haven't distorted it for some personal goal. Neil deGrasse Tyson and Stephen Hawking, for example. Unlike this particular case and unlike Romney, I don't believe I've ever heard either of them make public claims outside of their own area of expertise (which is part of why they have earned my trust).

class size doesn't matter if you educate like an assembly line

if you want to educate for real, class size indeed does matter. Students need individual attention from teachers. they need to be both heard and spoken to.

Most children need individual attention to teach them to love to learn. This topic need not be "debated".

Next up on the campaign trail: Earth flat? We'll host a fail and balanced debate....