Is that some backbone showing? Oh my.

I'm so glad that when bloodthirsty terrorists are caught, they have Matt Lauer and his ilk to stand up for their rights.

Yes, because they want to come kill you in your crappy little suburb. Living in fear is not very interesting.

kadampa1 what you're not seeing here is the fact that we're no better than the people we're trying to stop when you resort to illegal torture.

If Bush says that we only use "alternative methods" on the evil people, then it must be true. Love it or leave it.

How dare you question his undisclosed (and apparently undisclosable) efforts to keep me safe?!?

Kommie, if we were like the terrorist we would have already nuked them all. That's a silly attempt at moral equivalency. Also Burhan, I don't live in a suburb, and I don't live in fear. Being aware of a threat is not the same as living in fear. Save your trite sayings for your liberal circle jerk discussion groups.

That's really nice, kadampa1. George Bush crapped out your freedom to say that, you know. He craps out freedoms and liberties each morning after his Patriot Muffin so you can sniff it and be empowered to make angry comments against people you don't know.

It begins to sound absolutely ridiculous when people start to refer to these bogeymen terrorists as if they know what they're talking about. There is no monolithic group of "terrorists" out there, there are only relatively small groups, relatively disparate, responding to local conditions. Why engage in hysterics (sorry, no other word for it)? and why point to "them" as justification for all sorts of questionable or clearly illegal activities on the part of this administration? That's just lazy fantasizing.

Are you all really that afraid of your own shadow? And how, again, does that justify rounding up innocent civilians and torturing them, sometimes to death. These are already established facts, not subject to debate.

***
Pidgeonhole me as you may, if you are an a US-American citizen and cannot unequivocally state that torture is wrong, I'll be honest (and incendiary) and suggest your morals need serious readjusting. Look at yourself again and try to remember the country you grew up in. Do you really want to bury it?

Didn't "corner" him. Didn't even come close. Whenever he hit a question he didn't want to answer, Bush just ducked behind a quick "can't tell ya any details, because the terr'ists might adjust!!" and then leapt into another clockrunning repeat of "I'm protectin' the American people!!!"

My *god* that man makes me angry.


(And kadampa1, it's not the rights of the quote bloodthirsty terrorists unquote you ought to be concerned about: it's your own. Government breaking its own rules, that starts to become a habit.

Let's all take a step back. Look at the interview again. And just run this through your mind and let the horror sink in: that...man...is...the...PRESIDENT...OF...THE...UNITED...STATES!

Jeeez.

Where's Senator McCain when you need him.

I imagine he might have something interesting to say about torturing in the name of US citizens.

... except he's probably going to take another run at the presidency, and would likely just toe the party line.

Burhan, You are typical. You try to stick in a needless barb about where you assume I live, and when I respond, you poke fun of me for criticizing people I don't know. You can dish it out but you cannot take it.

sfjocko, back to the subject at hand. we are not talking about rounding up innocent poeople. we are talking about one of the guys who admittedly helped plan 9/11. yes i think its alright to torture him. i think it would be alright to do much more than scare him by making him feel like he is drowning. so there you can feel free to feel morally superior. that's another thing about you apologists for the rights of terrorists. on one hand you want to come up with reasons our culture is not morally superior to the ones that produce these nuts, but you waste no time making yourselves out to be superior to westerners who don't share your political views. it's really not even worth talking to you guys, i just do it occasionally when i'm bored.

by the way, i am not a fan of bush. he wore out his welcome with me long ago. but one thing i am not mad at him about is being too mean to murderous fanatical islamic facists when we catch them. instead of whining about how much you hate bush, maybe you should try to figure out why you cannot nominate someone who can beat him.

Funny thing is, kadampa, that Bush himself insists over and over and over that we do not torture. Even he knows it's a line Americans hate to cross. Sure, he's not done working his propa-magic on the weaker-minded such as yourself, and who knows where he'll manage to take y'all in the next two years. But the America I grew up in did not stand for torture, and it did not allow its citizens to be arrested and held incommunicado for years.

We have arrested and tortured, in some cases killed, hundreds of innocent people, if not thousands. That does not rest easy with me kadampa. You can play puerile games and talking nonsense about islamic fascists all you want, I cannot. You can talk about us torturing only one person all you want. I am an adult, and I deal with the real world. And I feel responsibility for what my country does. We are torturing and killing innocent people. The facts are indesputable. You want to justify that, go right ahead. I have a problem with it, especially when it's done in my name.

Yes, finally, in Bush's America you can have open discussions on the virtues of torture. I had hoped we'd evolved as a society beyond animalistic retribution against anyone who looks like our phantom enemy. Ahh, but I forget we have a president who does not believe in evolution.

But please don't pretend this is just a matter of differing political views. This goes beyond politics, to ethics. Want to hide behind 911 as justification for torture and murder of civilians? Go ahead, it's all you've got. But I think I'll stay here in the real world, where murders don't cancel each other out.

And please, who here advocated special rights for terrorists? Nobody. Like Bush's strawman arguments, or your lamebrained reference to "islamic fascists", you mouth the words you hear, but they do not jibe with reality. Which, by the way, exists.

Oh, and if you advocate torture, yes, I do consider you my moral inferior. It does not make me happy, and I have pity for you and your delusional views. It is wrong. It is not debatable. It is wrong. Blows my mind that in Bush's America there are people who actually advocate it. The country in which I was born may well be dead.

wow, he has lost it

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