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How could anyone listen to this and not puke?

Capitalism is a good thing. Capitalism with out morals is a bad thing.

If it wasn't for capitalism we would be a third rate country. Capitalism has put goods and services within the reach of so many of us that the USA has the highest standard of living. If you want to live like a 3rd world country then move. There are lots of them.

Corporations using the government to do their bidding is wrong. In the broadest sense the Constitution was not to empower the corporations or the people, it is meant to have a level playing field for all.

Corporations get away with it because the American people are lazy and don't give a shit about voting crooks out of government ( Dems and Reps alike). They would rather keep these crooks in power as long they keep getting feed the pork and social services dollars.

We have the government that we have now because that's what the people voted for.

It made me laugh when he was wistfully reminiscing about how serfdom was better than capitalism. It was good to see at the end that he said that no one would defend serfdom anymore.

I fell out of love with capitalism quite a few years ago. I still like it, but see it as a torrential river that needs firm boundaries. Unfortunately those boundaries have greatly eroded over time (both by willful efforts and by lack of involvement or understanding) so that the capitalistic never-satisfied hunger has seeped into areas best left untainted by that attitude.

Your argument is faulty by your own standard of morality and voting

1.
Capitalism is neither moral or immoral.
It's a self interested venture with the sole intent of maximizing profit. full stop.
It's amoral.

b : lacking moral sensibility

2.
Voting doesn't mean shit.
In 2000, Al Gore won the popular for President.

Why was Al Gore never president, bobknight?
That's who the people voted for in 2000, but that's not the government we got.

Explain these things Bobknight please. No response? Cognitive dissonance much?

I know it's tough to admit your beliefs are illusions at first.
It gets easier once you know there are people who are here to support you. =]

[ http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/amoral ]
[ http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0876793.html ]

p.s. - C. Wright. Power Elite. look it up. learn things bobknight
>> ^bobknight33:

How could anyone listen to this and not puke?
Capitalism is a good thing. Capitalism with out morals is a bad thing.
We have the government that we have now because that's what the people voted for.

He flicked you off...

>> ^bobknight33:
How could anyone listen to this and not puke?
Capitalism is a good thing. Capitalism with out morals is a bad thing.
If it wasn't for capitalism we would be a third rate country. Capitalism has put goods and services within the reach of so many of us that the USA has the highest standard of living. If you want to live like a 3rd world country then move. There are lots of them.
Corporations using the government to do their bidding is wrong. In the broadest sense the Constitution was not to empower the corporations or the people, it is meant to have a level playing field for all.
Corporations get away with it because the American people are lazy and don't give a shit about voting crooks out of government ( Dems and Reps alike). They would rather keep these crooks in power as long they keep getting feed the pork and social services dollars.
We have the government that we have now because that's what the people voted for.


Voting does not matter in a capitilism---boycotting is the true "vote" in capatilism.

Second, it is not laziness that keeps corrupt politicans in office, it is ignorance that keeps politicans in office--exactly as they planned. So many demands from so many people...

Oh, and in a "true" capatilism, everything is for sale. Including government. If other people want their share, they should "work" harder, and "earn" more money. I mean should the "poor", or as I call them, the "lazy" really have a say in anything?

The bigger question remains though---where is the poop? I smell it and I am afraid my two-year old has left a "Surprise" somewhere...

I believe you are wrong on this.

1) At the heart of every corporation is is a moral compass lead by the likes of the Boss/ CEO or board of directors. They decide moral direction. My company just got the Obama health care waiver. This is a company that ranks as being with in the top 15 largest corporations in the world. Is this is morally wrong? They also paid $0 dollars in taxes last year. Not to mention the near 1/2 trillion in government aid in the last 2 years. Finally they openly promote diversity along with domestic partner insurance. These are are all moral issues.

2)I agree that the Al Gore Flordia election was messed up. Due to the time lines involved the U.S. Supreme Court had to make the decision. Hanging chad or not he lost. From you link Bush and Gore both got 49% in Florida. The total outcome from you link shows that Gore won by 0.51%. Life is not fair and it not supposed to be fair.


>> ^GenjiKilpatrick:

Your argument is faulty by your own standard of morality and voting

1.
Capitalism is neither moral or immoral.
It's a self interested venture with the sole intent of maximizing profit. full stop.
It's amoral.

b : lacking moral sensibility

2.
Voting doesn't mean shit.
In 2000, Al Gore won the popular for President.

@bobknight33

Please. It's time to unplug from the matrix.

1. You've avoid addressing the lack of morality inherent to Capitalism itself.

Free markets work because self interest has the potential to benefit others.

However, this is not Pleasantville and no CEO makes decisions based how many kittens will be adopted because of it.

Your company got the waiver cause it cuts cost. They have domestic partner benefits because it keeps their employees happy.

Basic Macroeconomics. Lower cost + higher efficiency = greater productivity = more profit.

Morality has not a thing to do with corporate policies. If it did, your CEO would pay you the salary you rightful help create in profits. He doesn't.

[It's called profit-sharing & horizontal organization. Look it up]

2. You folded on this one pretty quickly don't you think?

"BLARG! You see what you get when you don't vote tyrants out of office!"

"Unless of course you get stuck with a tyrant anyway via supreme court decision.. then oh well, just deal with it. life is tough."
~~~

Lastly..
The United States of America is a Corporation.
The only service it provides is force.

It takes things that it no one owns to provide things no one needs.
It doesn't create any resources.
It doesn't produce any products.

It is dependent on the consumer. No consumer no profit.

Hence why it indoctrinates its citizen with the idea the capitalism is the best.

You've been indoctrinated to think that capitalism is fair..
So that you'll be tricked into thinking that statism is fair..
Plain and simple.

Unplug from your indoctrinated status quo prison, bobknight.
You'll have helped ever human born after you by doing so. =]

>> ^bobknight33:

If it wasn't for capitalism we would be a third rate country. Capitalism has put goods and services within the reach of so many of us that the USA has the highest standard of living.

This is something he discusses. It's also, I think, the right frame for discussing capitalism. Its worthiness as a social order should be judged on what it's done for the people who've labored within it, not because it's somehow an inherently fair or moral system. It isn't.

It also isn't the only possible way to organize society. Its flaws don't need to be borne, they can be fixed, and the whole improved on. In the grand scheme of things, liberals mostly just want to soften the sharper edges of capitalism, because we're unwilling to tamper with the core of capitalism itself and risk losing what good it has done for us.

Bottom line is, we spend a lot of time trying to divine what's good about capitalism, so we can try to fix what's bad about it without throwing away what's good.

>> ^bobknight33:
Corporations using the government to do their bidding is wrong. In the broadest sense the Constitution was not to empower the corporations or the people, it is meant to have a level playing field for all.
Corporations get away with it because the American people are lazy and don't give a shit about voting crooks out of government ( Dems and Reps alike).

I would also point out that this is exactly how the left sees things too.

We're very eager to get a level playing field, and promote equality without limiting people's potential. It's actually a fairly uncommon, unstated belief amongst liberals that greater equality will actually allow more people to maximize their potential.

Think of Ted Williams. Think how many other people there might be out there who have hidden potential, ignored by society because they were kept from realizing it by poverty, or racism, or what have you.

Think of how many people work in factories, or sweeping floors who have talents that never get developed because they have to spend all their days on menial jobs just to eke out a meager existence.

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sounds a little indoctrinated-y

>> ^NetRunner:

>> It also isn't the only possible way to organize society. Its flaws don't need to be borne, they can be fixed, and the whole improved on. In the grand scheme of things, liberals mostly just want to soften the sharper edges of capitalism, because we're unwilling to tamper with the core of capitalism itself and risk losing what good it has done for us.

>> ^CaptainPlanet:

sounds a little indoctrinated-y
>> ^NetRunner:
>> It also isn't the only possible way to organize society. Its flaws don't need to be borne, they can be fixed, and the whole improved on. In the grand scheme of things, liberals mostly just want to soften the sharper edges of capitalism, because we're unwilling to tamper with the core of capitalism itself and risk losing what good it has done for us.


Saying liberals aren't radical anti-capitalists is a sign of indoctrination?

no runner, i just wish it wasnt so radical to be anti-capitalists