Fox news:......waterboarding is fun for the whole family

Is it wrong that I enjoyed watching someone from Fox News getting tortured?

So for a Fox guy getting boarded, but against a terrorist getting the same treatment?

Now I know you're a red-blooded Republican, Wump...you have absolutely no sense of humor.

And if you really believe this is "the same treatment" that they get at Guantanamo and Abu Ghraib, you're living in the same false reality Dubya's created for himself.

Comment hidden because you are ignoring dag.(show it anyway)

Darn, I was hoping for O'Rielly. I'd dontate money to see him water boarded.

No, I get the joke. It's just in bad taste.

If this is the worst that a terrorist gets, they get the 4-star treatment compared to what other countries would do.

Wumpus, but you and I both know the suspects under our control can't just say OK I'LL TALK and they let them go and everything's fine after that. This goes on for hours which is what leads to a lot of our faulty-intelegence. You'd tell them anything they wanted to hear after going though that, if you were telling the truth or not.

I don't know what the point of this piece is. The President has said repeatedly that America doesn't torture. OK I'm relieved. . .the last 20 seconds of the story indicated that the waterboard is not so bad. We should just let local and county police do waterboarding - so quick and efficient. Once upon a time, torture was not televised entertainment. Damned Clinton.

But I think the demonstration of such "techniques" is unpatriotic. Now the infidel is just going to adapt.

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"If this is the worst that a terrorist gets, they get the 4-star treatment compared to what other countries would do."

First of all, these are not "terrorists". They are suspects. You've heard of innocent until proven guilty, right? One of the fine principles of American government?

Many of the detainees at Guantanamo were arrested on little or no evidence -- the accusation of a neighbor with a grudge was enough. About 200 Guantanamo prisoners have been released without charges. That's at least 200 completely innocent people we've tortured. There's still 500 more at Guantanamo, plus god only knows how many others hidden away in the other secret prisons.

Even setting that aside, this isn't "the worst" they get. I don't know why waterboarding gets so much attention; at various times they've also acknowledged using temperature extremes, sleep deprivation, and "stress positions" (forcing the victim to stay in a painful position for a long period of time). Not to mention the dog attacks, beatings, rapes and murders at Abu Ghraib. (If you're of short memory: "The American public needs to understand we're talking about rape and murder here. We're not just talking about giving people a humiliating experience." That was Senator Lindsey Graham. A Republican, before you ask.) All of those are torture, as far as I'm concerned. Or at the very least, cruel and unusual punishment. Which used to be illegal. Another fine principle of American government down the drain.

And about that "compared to what other countries would do" part... you've heard of "extraordinary rendition," right? We're shipping prisoners to those other countries to be tortured. Does it make it any less torture if we pay someone else to do it for us?

And even if you're enough of a monster to stomach all that, torture still doesn't work. Just as the reporter in this clip says -- "I was ready to submit, tell them anything." People will say anything to make the torture stop. Whether it's true or not. The information we get from these guys is absolutely valueless. Not a single terrorist plot has been foiled by this vile nonsense. Instead, we're creating terrorists, stirring up anti-American hatred and giving them a real reason for that hatred. Al Quaeda probably views all this as the best thing that could possibly happen for them -- what better recruiting tool for terrorist groups? What better way for America to live up to the "Great Satan" moniker?

Those perpetrating this are evil men. Those who support it are fools. Waterboarding is unamerican. We're supposed to be better than this. Wumpus, you ought to be ashamed of yourself.

So what are we supposed to do use harsh language?

You can talk about the moral high ground all you want, but its not going to help you if god-forbid you ever you or anyone else should find themselves in the reverse situation.

By 4-star, I mean that this is nothing compared to methods used by a "less civilized" country. Allow me to jog our imagination, picture a power drill and someone's knee caps, or a baseball bat and the bottoms of your feet.

Wumpus, you misunderstand. You (America) is not supposed to be fighting their War to beat or punish Terrorists. The noble goal of this crusade is to spread freedom. you cannot spread freedom by stooping to vile and disgusting tactics.

America has become a country filled with hate, it is no longer fit to stand amongst the free and good countries of the world. if you want to see free people, truly free and happy people, then you should visit Holland, Canada, Australia, Sweden, or a dozen other countries where people can live a full and content life without fear.

you create your own fear, you breed hatred with your hatred. Listen to the words of Yoda regarding the path to the dark side.

I'm afraid that the two are not mutually exclusive. You're absolutely right when you say that the goal is to spread freedom, but there are those who will do anything to prevent that.

The terrorists are the opposition and have been around for decades. They are the ones who spread fear by attacking gathering places and kill civilians without discretion. They are the ones who say "Live like us or die", and they will eventually make their way across Europe and then to the U.S. and do the same things. So the question becomes, if you know there is a plot to kill thousands of innocent people,are you willing to get your hands dirty so save them, or do you maintain your moral high ground and let them die? Unfoutunately, life does not often present us with easy or attractive answers.

When I see the list of countries you mentioned, with the probable exception of Australia, I see a civilization who are unable and/or unwilling to defend their way of life.

Part of living under the banner of freedom is living with the burden of knowing there are bad things out there, things that are worth fearing and worth defending against to preserve your way of life. Living a life without fear is idealistic, but it is not realistic. If you have never had to deal with it, you will never be able to face up to it and overcome it.

I totally disagree with you on your description of America. It is not a country of hate, we are a country of tolerance that in my opinion needs to keep a basic set of values to keep it on the correct path. America was founded as a Judeo-Christian nation and the founding fathers knew that America needed to rely on Judeo-Christian philosophy; not religion as a basis for its values.

I do believe that America has gone back to sleep after 9/11 and many Americans simply want to get on with their lives and go back to the business of hating each other because the other guy has a better house or a better car instead of uniting against the threat that is on the horizon.

As for the dark side, I don't hate terrorists, I pity them. But if they threaten my country or my loved ones, God help me I will do everything in my power to fight them.

Keep up the good work fighting evil terrorists there, wumpy. You're doing a lot of good sitting there on your fat ass spewing hate and incomprehensible gibberish onto the internet.

Wumpus is no quantummushroom.

I agree with wumpus that America is not a country of hate. No more than Canada is a country of love. Every nation that I have ever visited has had their share of despicable people. Sometimes the despicable people hold positions of great power.

I am not sure that Holland is a great exemplar of "truly free and happy people", particularly if you look at the Theo Van Gogh incident and the Hirsi Ali situation.

The Bush Administration has hyped the fear of the "islamofascist" beyond any rational basis. Terrorists and their methods have been around for decades. It is simply not a "new and unprecedented" threat. The UK and Israel have been handling comparably greater terrorist threats for decades without eroding civil liberties and placing powers in the hands of an unchecked executive.

I would like to know if Wumpus would support the torture powers asserted by the Bush Administration (no transparency, no oversight, classified secret prisons, warrantless surveillance) if someone like Al Sharpton (or even someone like Richard Nixon or Bill Clinton) was President.

I appreciate the faith that some people have in this administration. But it is a deliberately blind, lemming-like faith on the issues of Iraq and torture.

"[America] is not a country of hate, we are a country of tolerance that in my opinion needs to keep a basic set of values to keep it on the correct path."

I absolutely agree with this statement. But by adopting these tactics, we're abandoning those values.

For your information Blankman, I AM FIGHTING THE TERRORISTS. It is my job to find IED's planted in and around civilian areas, along convoy routes, and insurgent weapons caches. My work yields documented results and I SAVE SOLDERS LIVES! So before you decide to throw in your worthless assertions on things you know nothing about, do yourself a favor and shut the fuck up.

"The Bush Administration has hyped the fear of the "islamofascist" beyond any rational basis. Terrorists and their methods have been around for decades. It is simply not a "new and unprecedented" threat. The UK and Israel have been handling comparably greater terrorist threats for decades without eroding civil liberties and placing powers in the hands of an unchecked executive."

No two things are ever created equal, and terrorist threats and societies change over time. The U.K. dealt with the IRA in their own way, I can't comment on it too much because I've never studied that part of history. What I do know is that England is, by comparison, more strict with their civil rights and have far more intrusive law enforcement methods. England also recently broke up a homegrown terrorist ring and foiled a major attack of British soil. If they had America's laws, they never would have found them.

Israel has been going back and forth with Palestine and Syria for decades and very little has changed. And with the most recent conflict with Hezbollah was a huge victory for the terrorists because Israel showed them that they are unwilling to carry a fight to the end. And incidentally, if government suggested that we take on the kind of airport security that they have in Israel, the American people would absolutely freak.

The Islamofacist threat is real, but the vast majority of people simply don't want to believe it. I think it's part of human nature, that people don't want to think the unthinkable. What would happen if the sovereignty of this country was very seriously threatened? Can you even conceive of it? In the late 1930's, America, England and most of Europe didn't (want to) think that the Nazi's were a threat. Polls from back then stated that 90% of Americans didn't want to get involved even if England was conquered, but then Pearl Harbor happened and things changed. And like Pearl Harbor, we were hit once, we will be hit again.

"would like to know if [you] would support the torture powers asserted by the Bush Administration (no transparency, no oversight, classified secret prisons, warrantless surveillance) if someone like Al Sharpton (or even someone like Richard Nixon or Bill Clinton) was President."

I would hope that those in power would do what necessary to protect the people of this country regardless of who was in charge. But for what it's worth, let me try to assure you that there is oversight and that those in charge are not running wild with power and brutally mutilate prisoners for their own pleasure and the everyday, law-abiding Joe Schmoe has absolutely no intelligence value and is not worth surveilling. It is a massive waste of resources.

What this clip shows is not torture. It certainly is coercive, in that I would call it "coercive interrogation." If you've ever seen Hostel, THAT is torture. The use of electric shocks, blades, employing power tools is torture. Pouring water up someones nose is not, in my opinion.

"I appreciate the faith that some people have in this administration. But it is a deliberately blind, lemming-like faith on the issues of Iraq and torture."

Believe me, I share your sentiment, however I don't share your outlook. The people need to have a large amount of faith in the people they elect, and like you, there are people I simply don't trust. And I know it's hard, but we all need to believe that those in charge will do the right thing, but it gets harder everyday.

Wumpus

Well said. A friend's husband returned this year from JAG duty in and around Fallujah and has expressed that service in Iraq is extremely difficult now. The upside is that he no longer finds DC summers to be hot or unpleasant.

From the outside looking in, it appears that the military has safeguards, oversight, and accountability to deter torture and abuses. I don't believe that either the civilians creating policy or the CIA possess or appreciate these safeguards.

Hostel is pure snuff as well as Torture with a capital T and I hope that I am baptized on Fox TeeVee before I ever have to see it again.

Well, I'm not quite sure how to respond here, wumpus. I wish you the best in your day job- I hope you stay safe, and make it home to your loved ones healthy and whole. However, I stand by my statement that you're basically spouting talking-point gibberish designed to inspire hatred and mistrust.

So many people these days seem to have such a narrow, black-and-white, with us or against us view on the world, and so many seem to tell those who have a different viewpoint on things to "shut the fuck up", as you so eloquently put it. Please, don't be so ignorant. I encourage you to read a book or two and widen your world view.

In reply to your comment:
“For your information Blankman, I AM FIGHTING THE TERRORISTS. It is my job to find IED's planted in and around civilian areas, along convoy routes, and insurgent weapons caches. My work yields documented results and I SAVE SOLDERS LIVES! So before you decide to throw in your worthless assertions on things you know nothing about, do yourself a favor and shut the fuck up.”

Description and plot summary of the movie, Hostel. I read all the spoilers; this isn't a movie I want to watch.

PS Wumpus: if you end up in Portland, OR, I'll buy you a beer. Good luck and be smart.

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