Geert Wilders' controversial film "Fitna" ("Strife").

Pure propaganda relying entirely on emotionally shocking images.

Entirely one sided to get people scared and afraid. This will do great with fear mongers who see a clash of Civilizations.

Take some stuff from KKK, Westboro Church, several Islamaphobia Neocons, edit to please and you will have the same thing.


Everything in the movie is accurate.

If you have anything against it please point out the mistakes or errors instead of just saying that its propaganda.

This is what the Quran says and this is what many muslims are doing now.


No it's not accurate. If it was I would be beheaded now because I live in a Islamic country. But strangely am not.

You need to see the forest from the trees. This film doesn't help anything, all it does is create more problems. What is Wilder's main reason for making this? Tell me that...


holy crap, I can't believe LiveLeak caved that quickly. They've replaced the video with a message of why it was removed. Thankfully, some foresighted folks had already copied the film from liveleak and posted it all over YT and google. I've replaced it here with one of the google versions. If anyone can find an embedable version without the lame-ass liveleak watermark, let me know with a profile message and I'll replace it.

btw - I think Wilders is a xenophobic nutjob, but no more so than some of the imams shown in the vid.


Ironically, Kurt Westergaard, the cartoonist who drew the turban-bomb Muhammad, is suing Wilders for copyright infringement. Apparently, Wilders failed to seek his permission to use it in the film. <nelson>Ha ha!</nelson>


No it's not accurate. If it was I would be beheaded now because I live in a Islamic country. But strangely am not.

No, thats bad logic. its like saying "I've been smoking 2 packs a day for 20 years, and still havent got cancer, ergo, smoking doesnt cause cancer". I agree with the core proposition in this film: Islam is a dangerous ideology, and it is , as an idiology, fundamentally hostile to everything I hold dear.

This is not , and never will be, the same, or even comparable to saying "All muslims are evil" or any stupid shit like that.

Islam is an idea, a meme, a construct of ideas, not all of them are bad, not all of them stick in the minds of reasonable people. Clearly, Muslims, just like any political or religious groups, come in all shapes and sizes.

Imagine "Heinrich", your average German, 1935 National socialist party voter, would he be a wife-beater, a babykilling, murderous jew-hating zombie? Of course not, but the ideology he has bought into, that he is promoting, voting for, and helping to spread, is dangerous nonetheless.

If I made a similar film about nazism, would you say I was spreading lies and hatred about Heinrich and most Germans his age? Would my film be seen as a hate-mongering propaganda movie, and if thousands of angry Nazis threatened to kill me and lay waste to my civilization over that movie, would I, the hate-mongerer, be to blame?


You lost that on Godwin rules.

But seriously I was raised in this so called ideology you claim is so dangerous. Am not practicing muslim and I haven't met anyone who cared if I was or not so far, even though they can act all superior if they are themselves but thats besides the point.

My main complaint is that westerners are claiming Islam is so 'dangerous' without really understanding the people and the faith of close to a billion people in the world. The fastest and largest growing faith on the planet.

This 'dangerous' religion only came under the microscope now after 9/11 where a radical terrorist groups and their originating faith became suddenly a singular group. That's bullshit, its like saying Timothy McVeigh represents Christian Terrorists. No one connected Islam the faith and the radical terrorists before 9/11, but they were there in the first Trade center attack, in Israel, in PLO attacks of the 60s, in Egypt and countless other terrorist attacks.

The faith doesn't have anything to do with it, its being used just as fear is being used through films like that to cut down dialog between people, to incite fear and misunderstanding. Are you really surprised that faith based language is being used to incite conflict? What did George Bush say? Its God that told him to invade Afghanistan and Iraq. He used Christian based language countless times. What do you think those terrorists do? Same shit different words and God. They are simply using the faith as a vehicle to further their own ideas and power, the Taliban is a perfect example of this, they claim to be Islamic, but closer inspection shows that they don't know shit about Islam and impose their own hard line interpretation with Pashtun tribal overtones.

How many innocent Muslims were attacked post 9/11 for being simply Muslim? Since when is Osama Bin Laden or any of those crazy imams representative of the Islamic faith?

Its all about power and pushing people into taking complex topics to basic levels. Wilders only wants to incite hatred and division in Netherlands and gain political momentum off peoples fears, its xenophobia parallel to blaming all the problems of Germany circa 1930s and WW1 on the Jews.

Its so much easier to say its the evil Muslims!!!111 then saying perhaps our foreign policy with regards to Saudi Arabia, Israel, Palestine, Afghanistan, Iran and Iraq is and was deeply flawed. You look at the middle east with a western slant without thinking about what people in this side of the world have seen and witnessed from the great western powers, arm sales and unconditional support for Israel to kill Palestinians, support of ISI and Mujahedin to attack the USSR in Afghanistan, support for corrupt and oppressive Saudi Royal Family, support for Egypt that is 20 years under emergency dictatorship rule, support for Central Asian despots who now imprison and vilify Islam so they can rule for ever, sale of arms to Iraq and Iran. Tanks and troops spreading freedom across Iraq and Afghanistan. People don't forget.

But you people like it simple and easy to disgust and process back through "Its the faith" I guess. Islam is evil. Bush is right. War for ever against a strategy and a religion.

For people who claim a diversity of opinion you enter intellectual lock down pretty quickly.


its xenophobia parallel to blaming all the problems of Germany circa 1930s and WW1 on the Jews.

Did someone say "Godwin"?

I happen to think thats a bullshit "law" anyway, but you brought it up. Lets go to 2008 instead then, do I think every member of the cult of scientology are either evil manipulating money-grubbing scammers, or batshit crazy movie stars? No. But scientology is crazy. its an evil scam man-made for all the usual reasons, money and power, and the world would be better off without that kind of nonsense. Islam is the exact same thing. It is totalitarian, intolerant, primitive, organized fascism. It thrives on ignorance and discourages education, and promotes indoctrination in its place. This is why my Godwin is appropriate and yours probably isnt. (I dont know much about Wilders, and I expect I'll probably disagree with him on many things, but comparing his little movie to Nazi germany's relentless propaganda machine is probably stretching things just a little.)

Its so much easier to say its the evil muslims!!!111 then saying perhaps our foreign policy with regards to Saudi Arabia, Isreal, Palestine, Afghanistan, Iran and Iraq is and was deeply flawed.

Thank you for walking right into my anticipated criticism and mistaking my opposition to Islam as opposition to muslims, basically by quoting the claim I described as "stupid shit like that".

Also nice on your part to assess that since I "hate all the evil muslims" I automatically see every foreign policy decision the USA and Europe has ever made as absolutely flawless. Guess thats where my hundreds of anti-Bush, anti-Iraq war posts come from.

For clarification, unlike Geert Wilders, I am not frightened shitless when I see the "Number of muslims" counter in my country sky-rocket, I consider myself a world citizen, and place or culture of origin of the people around me means close to nothing. What I care about is whether people and society have to suffer. I dont want to live in a theocracy, I will stand up for the rights of women to wear whatever the fuck they want, and eat in whatever restaurant they want. And our press to print or publish whatever the hell they want. As long as these things are guaranteed for everyone, Islam or scientology, or nazism can be whatever the hell it wants to be for all I care.


Yes I commend you on a very enlightened viewpoint, but you fail to see that not everyone can separate the religion or its ideas away from the people who follow it.

Its hard to say that we can possess a nuanced view of the world and believe ALL can have that, thats not how the world works, as a whole we brush everyone with a wide brush. This is seen through History.

I believe there are better ways to criticize and encourage reform of Islam then this pandering propagandistic crap, and no I wasn't comparing his film to Nazi Germany's propaganda, but it stems from the same roots of trying to divide people by whittling their existences down to basics like religion, race or eye color.


>> ^Peroxide:
Funny thing about the Christian bible is, it doesn't ask me to go out and lay waste to the 'infidels' or beat my wife, or anything of the sort.

But it doesn't say those things, thats a common misconception, the Qu'ran was written as book of religion, of law and of warfare, because the Prophet was not only someone of faith but also a warrior and a statesman. Further more there is plenty in the Christian bible that is also cruel and archaic anyway as well so. It does contain passages on conduct of warfare, that does not allow killing of innocents, women and children that seeks to accept negotiation over war.

Of course extremists bypass this conveniently by saying infidels are "against" Islam, or rather are seeking to eliminate the faith and thus its okay to kill those who are not Muslim. But a closer examination shows that more Muslim people are killed by terrorist actions then anything else, major scholars of modern Islam have spoken against that and against Osama himself. The events of 9/11 brought more hardship and misery upon Muslim people then any western populace.

With regards to womens rights, you are diluting the issue again by thinking that Saudi Arabia which forces women to wear head covering is the example of what Islam is. That is nonsense, Saudi Arabia practices Wahhabi Islam, a extreme reading of Islam with various add on rules, people there in itself question that here is a video of a Saudi writer questioning this. The faith there has more to do with keeping political power then anything else. Frontline's documentary the House of Saud explains this issue very well.

The Wilder's assumption that Islam would destroy Europe is vapidly stupid, Europe was ruled by Islam already, another aspect covered in the Islamic History of Europe. Here is a quick clip that shows how the interchange of information from the Greeks to Muslims to Europeans lead to Renaissance. Also When the Moors Ruled Europe.

There is much more that is seen all over, the religion is not perfect but you need to look at it with a wider appreciation to History and actually understand it before claiming simplistic uninformed views from a few extremist talking heads. Start with What is Islam.

A good post dealing directly with Extremism is Doha Debates video. Where At the second Doha Debates Special on February 28th, 2006 guest speakers, including Archbishop Desmond Tutu, Shaykh Hamza Yusuf, Professor John Esposito and Diana Buttu, answered questions from the student audience on the issue of how to combat extremism and improve relations between the West and the Muslim world.


It is the year 2438.

In the early 21st century, riding on the back of the popularity of our Eternal Martyr, St.Thomas Cruise Mapother IV, who was brutally assassinated in 2012 by the evil terrorist group Anonymous, Scientology experienced some sky-rocketing numbers, converting people by the millions. By 2100, Scientology had over 1.4 Billion adherents worldwide. Today, with its 3.5 billion followers, it is the second largest religion in the world, only slightly behind Mormonism.

In many countries, Scientology is the vastly dominant religion, with up to 95% of the population identifying themselves as scientologists. Some critics say Scientology is little more than a money-making scam cult, invented by a second-rate science-fiction writer in the late 20th century, but most people have a much more nuanced view, they argue that it is the extremists scientologist that are the problem, and Scientology is a peaceful religion, its been over 60 years since the last Suppressive Person was hanged, for instance, and some countries even have basic psychiatric treatment facilities, where only part of the treatment is Dianetics, many hospitals now even have psycologist, people who used to be executed on the spot if caught red-handed asking personal questions without a qualified e-meter operator nearby.

Today, most people dont really spend that much time on reaching OT III, some who identify themselves as scientologists, say they dont even believe in thetans, but Scientology is part of their culture, they say, and its not just about denying psyciatric treatment or harassing SP's. Its so much more than that, it roots back to the laws and customs of many countries, and many people live good, happy lives as scientologists, so why cant these critics just leave them alone? Why would anyone seek to demonize all scientologists as if they were criminals, isnt this just hate-mongering, designed to spark fury among the extremists?


Sounds like BicycleRepairMan fears something he doesnt understand: SOMEONE'S a HUMAN !!!! It looks like Farhad2000 has you beat being from the woods and all, plus he has a diamond with a 500 in it. Plus Muslim is no more maliable to the ways of evil men than Christianity is: this about the Spanish Inquisition or, oh god, the Crusades. Those both dwarf 911 on the scale of atrocities. No?


A few comments off the top of my head.

1. The guy who made this is a right wing nut job. He wasn't trying to contribute to peaceful anything. This is the equivalent of stirring people up before a lynching.

2. I highly recommend the link Eklek posted ( it will give you some perspective in the context of the Dutch community (the community that produced the filmmaker and many other people of divers positions).

3. I think this video should be here, because it is important, but it's dangerously close to snuff. I think the images here are purposefully shocking and degrading, and there is no doubt the individuals are in the process of dying as we watch.


this video, for me, fails to accomplish it's goal. i dislike Wilders instead. his skimming view of an entire culture (much less religion) is on par with anything the american right-wing has thrown at us, only he know how to edit film (sort of). he cherrypicked the darkest of the dark in human behavior and expects us to believe that it's somehow specific to only one religion and people because of the language and clothing. i'm not Muslim, i'm not Christian, i'm not even an Aperture Science employee, but even i can see through this to the self-imposed racism and fear that Wilder must live with every day. he'd have a fine time with Limbaugh or Imus. they should have their people call each other and do lunch.

i can neither upvote or downvote the video. i see the merit in promoting a voice stifled (as an idea), but i cannot be party to the promotion of such xenophobic and hate-filled bile.

and Wilder is, himself, in violation of Godwin's Law (see the text at the end).


The Koran may contain just as many anti-violence passages as pro-violence passages, but the pro-violence passages are still there and certain groups of Muslims will cherry pick those.

I don't see anything in this video that implies all Muslims are bad. It jut contains a very selective subset of the truth that has often been overemphasized by some and denied or marginalized by others.

Teaching children deference to authority (faith) instead of teaching them to think for themselves (using evidence) is the fundamental flaw in most religions. It opens the floodgates to random ideologies that build upon the basic Trojan horse of faith.


To Farhad2000: Does the Quran lie? Are the verses from the Quran incorrect? Are the speakers in the film being tortured to say what they say? Please explain the propaganda. It's clear ISLAM IS THE GUTTER RELIGION, NOT JUDAISM.

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