There's nothing in the video that would normally make this NSFW, but it's hard to watch regardless, so I'm erring on the side of caution.

Officials considered him an "intelligence treasure trove" not only because his father was Ahmed Said Khadr, but because he had personally met Osama bin Laden and might be able to offer answers about the al-Qaeda hierarchy despite having been only ten years old at the time.

...

When he told Canadians that he had been tortured into giving false confessions by the Americans, the Canadian authorities called him a liar, causing him to cry. He later recalled that he had "tried to cooperate so that they would take me back to Canada".

...

On April 9 2008, a box of Khadr's documents was seized, ostensibly because items like a Lord of the Rings screenplay were prohibited, and the legal documents taken were returned a few days later. He was also ordered to cease playing dominoes or chess with his attorneys.

...

In the spring of 2008, a series of visits by Canadian Foreign Affairs officials led Karim Amégan and Suneeta Millington to report that Khadr was "salvageable" if allowed to return to society, but that keeping him in the prison would risk radicalising him.

- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omar_Khadr

This is the way I see it.

If you want info out of me, dont torture me.

Its simple, you and me have a hand to hand fight, whoever wins said fight: Vae Victis.

But then again I'm old fashioned and I'll keep my word, but I will not lose that fight. IE: They would have to kill me before they take my rights away.

This guy was 15 when he was caught, but he is admittedly more than just a "suspect". He was the sole Taliban survivor in a fire fight in Afghanistan. When just he and one other fighter were left a grenade was thrown that killed an American soldier. It's a sad commentary on America that his treatment is so deeply in question, but that doesn't change the circumstances of when Khadr was caught. There is video of him laying land mines as well. The really ugly part is how young he was when he was caught. What do you do with someone this deeply troubled and dangerous when they are barely past being a kid?

Posted a shorter clip here yesterday:
http://www.videosift.com/video/Guantanamo-Interrogation-of-Omar-Khadr

^bcglorf

What do you do with someone this deeply troubled and dangerous when they are barely past being a kid?


Is the answer:

A) indefinite imprisonment,
B) interrogation,
C) intimidation,
D) torture,
or
E) "radicalizing" him?



Regardless activities prior to his capture, this kid, at 14 and 15 years old, was very likely a victim of circumstances. I wonder how many secrets an early adolescent would really be trusted with out of the Afghan War or how relevant any such information might be after 6 years...

>> ^notarobot:
^bcglorf
What do you do with someone this deeply troubled and dangerous when they are barely past being a kid?

Is the answer:
A) indefinite imprisonment,
B) interrogation,
C) intimidation,
D) torture,
or
E) "radicalizing" him?

Regardless activities prior to his capture, this kid, at 14 and 15 years old, was very likely a victim of circumstances. I wonder how many secrets an early adolescent would really be trusted with out of the Afghan War or how relevant any such information might be after 6 years...


I'm honestly asking because I really don't know. I agree he is most likely a victim of circumstance as his father was an Al-Qaida supporter killed earlier in fighting in Afghanistan. The trouble is at his age he had embraced the fundamentalist goals put before him, and is fully indoctrinated by them. Can you really re-integrated somebody who's been through that back into society? How do you balance giving someone a second chance against the safety of the general public? Murders are routinely locked away for life, especially if we think they will re-offend. But we don't usually do that with 15 year olds. Of course, neither do we often have 15 year-old jihadists.
It was a messy business even before American treatment of prisoners was in question thanks to the Bush-Cheney nightmare.

To everyone getting their panties in a bunch:

What do you think would have happened if the militia Khadr was in had captured an American or even a Canadian soldier?

How long do you think until they'd have chopped his head off and put the tape on the internet? Three months? Six?

I think he's being treated rather humanely considering the circumstances he was apprehended. At least he's got a full belly and something attached to his jugular.

^ Didn't your momma tell you "they started it first" isn't justification for anything?

This is about what kind of people we want to be.

Do we stick to our principles when the going gets tough, or do we ditch them the minute we bump heads with people without any principles?

The Republicans are right to call this an existential threat, they're just wrong about what the existential threat really is.

If the only way to win is to stop obeying the Constitution, the Geneva conventions, and just sheer human decency -- we've already lost.

^If you're being mugged and you really, really don't like it and concentrate on channeling that emotion to the mugger, do think think he'll just turn around and hand back your wallet?

Of course not.

Sometimes... no matter how much you want something, it won't materialize. You can't reason with everyone for the simple reason that not everyone shares the same intellectual drive.

Go tell some priapic Sudanese Kalashnikov wielding maniac that he should treat his enemy with respect because some gentlemen met in Switzerland and laid down some ground rules. He'll laugh in your face, and with good reason!

If you partake in a gentleman's duel and you're well aware that your opponent has a nasty habit of shooting people in the back, would you still begin your ten paces with assurance?

Only a fool would insist on being a gentleman when dealing with swine.

Pprt and that's why the terrorists win. When fighting evil one must be careful not to become evil as well. The morale high ground is a large component of successful psychological warfare and the war on terror is based more on psychology then on combined arms.

>> ^Pprt:
^If you're being mugged and you really, really don't like it and concentrate on channeling that emotion to the mugger, do think think he'll just turn around and hand back your wallet?

You are, perhaps intentionally, not getting the point, as well as putting words in my mouth.

The alternative to torture is not to "hope he'll be nice from now on", but to use other interrogation methods, which many experts say is more productive than torture.

To borrow your analogy, say you get mugged. The mugger gets away, but the next day you decide to go chasing after the guy. To do this, you capture his family, imprison them and torture them over the course of years in order to get information that might lead you to the capture of the mugger. You make sure there are reports about your doing this on TV on a regular basis, so that the mugger knows what you're doing to his family...

Which one of you would you call a terrorist now?

If I change the mugger into a car bomber, does that make what the hypothetical "you" did justified, or are they both people who should be locked up?

Isn't what makes a person a terrorist defined by what they do, and not who his friends are?

It's unfortunate that victims of circumstance exist, however I trust that western powers use the utmost discernment in their actions and tread grievously into these difficult situations.

My apologies if you feel I did not get your point, NetRunner. Bottom line is that no matter how much you'd like other people to respect your "code of honour", you'll ending looking like a fool if time after time you get stabbed in the back. It's decidedly not enjoyable, but sometimes when you're dealing with dirt you've got to take off your white gloves and get your hands dirty. Not everyone lives by the pen.

Back to this particular case. Fifteen old Khadr, born and bred in Canada, definitely had the mental capacity to understand that his father was a Muslim extremist and he was certainly conscious of his decision to go to Afghanistan and wage a so-called "holy war". He was not abducted and seemed to rather enjoy laying down landmines. We're not talking about harmless teenage pranks. He fully intended to murder people.

"however I trust that western powers use the utmost discernment in their actions and tread grievously into these difficult situations."

You can't be serious saying those words considering Abu Graibh, Gitmo, Bagram airbase and shit loads of information contrary to that.

*length=05:40

The duration of this video has been updated from unknown to 5:40 - length declared by cricket.