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Why This Anesthesiologist Quit

newtboy says...

Know who you take advice from....
Just gonna leave this here....

Wiki-
Dr Michael Klaper-In August 1993 Klaper issued a medical certificate for the insurers of two movies that River Phoenix was working on at the time, Dark Blood and Interview With the Vampire. The certificate was signed by both Klaper and Phoenix and stated that Phoenix had never used "LSD, heroin, cocaine, alcohol in excess, or any other narcotic, depressant, stimulant or psychedelic. At the time Phoenix was deeply into the drug scene and died from a drug overdose two months later on October 31, 1993. Phoenix's death resulted in Dark Blood being scrapped, and his role in Interview with the Vampire being replaced by Christian Slater. A total $US5.7 million was paid out by the insurers of both movies as the result of Phoenix's death. Since Phoenix's death, insurance rates have increased significantly, medical certificates are no longer accepted, and actors are required to undergo more rigorous medical examination prior to being insured. [23]

According to oncologist David Gorski "Klaper subscribes to the all-too-common claim that a vegan diet is better than any other and supplements that claim with a belief that undergoing fasts, in which one consumes only water, is a major part of the path to health and wellness". He supports multiple pseudoscience medical claims such as acupuncture, chiropractic, naturopathy and border-line "germ theory denialism". Klaper also gives "highly dubious advice for cancer patients, even claiming that fasting can shrink malignant tumors. Klaper claims that fasts will clear up inflammation, eczema, arthritis and other issues. "The situation" according to Gorski, is "way more complicated than Dr. Klaper paints it". As a surgeon himself, Gorski is appalled that Klaper claims that fasting encourages "faster wound healing" a statement that Gorski calls "Bullshit!". Magician Penn Jillette reported on multiple podcasts that he has lost over 25 pounds on Klaper's water fast diet, Gorski responded that of course he will lose weight on a water-only diet. In Gorski's opinion as a medical doctor himself, "Jillette has fallen "hook, line, and sinker for a whole lot of dietary pseudoscience and promoting it on his show with a credulous interview with someone like Dr. Klaper". Gorski hopes that Jillette will eventually realize "that Dr. Klaper is peddling highly dubious claims (at best). Basically, the product Dr. Klaper is peddling in terms of science is a massive exaggeration based on dubious science, cherry picked cases, and bad evolutionary analogies. Worse, fasts, even when supervised by a physician, are potentially dangerous"

Pigeons sucked into grain grinder at a russian bread factory

The EAT-Lancet Launch Lecture

newtboy says...

You didn't dispute their science, did you? Are you pretending this was reviewed by outside scientists who aren't card carrying vegan zealots...or even by non contributors to the paper they've presented? Do you know who funded it, since that does matter? Any meat producers among them?
You know they neglected to include a list of possible conflicts of interest the authors had, too. Could that be because the vast majority made/make their living selling veganism in one way or another?

I gave specific points of contention with specific details of eat lancet including it's scientific validity, with specific data you failed to address at all.

I'm just pointing out the deficiencies in your movement's new attempt at science...it may have some good points none the less.

I'm much less concerned with the messenger than the science. Veganism pushes out these new claims so often that it takes an army to keep up with debunking them, it's no surprise some soldiers are less than perfect, I don't know these two enough to care....but do you contradict their article's scientific points, ignoring the authors likely bias?

All that said, I don't disagree that red meat once a week is a decent limit, or that less sugar and processed grain would be even more beneficial to average people's health (not everyone)...and that's far from suggesting veganism...but those three suggestions seem to be the main takeaways from the synopsis I've read, but the devil is in the details, which seem to need serious work.

transmorpher said:

I mean sure, you can claim bias. But I just hope you are claiming it both ways, because guess who the Nutrition Coalition you linked is funded by?

WHAT I EAT FOR BREAKFAST

transmorpher jokingly says...

There's over 20 million vegans in the world, and growing fast. We are well past the cult stage. At least do us the dignity of accusing us of being a religion. ;-)

newtboy said:

What?! Transmorpher posted a set of pro vegan videos that claim to be "up to date on the latest nutritional and health research"? Never seen that before, at least this one doesn't claim moderate meat consumption will absolutely give you cancer.

Almost like veganism is a *cult instead of lifestyle or health plan.

United Nations: Diet of the Future

transmorpher says...

If you are going to try to suggest that the United Nations is some kind of hippie vegan promoting organisation, then you will definitely look like the crazy cultist you try to make me out to be.

Sorry champ, it's no longer 1 or 2 doctors promoting a plant-based diet for health, and environment - this video is from the United Nations, and every day, more and more doctors and scientists agree with this view point - you're running out of room to play the "he's a biased vegan" card.


----

And all of your "concerns" are debunked in the comments of your links already, so I have nothing to add.

----

I've also destroyed the credibility of your links in my other video comment section.

newtboy said:

It's important to know this is apparently not peer reviewed science (co-authors reviewing each other's claims is not real peer review), and is not verified by experimental data...not a single clinical trial, only epidemiology. This kind of science has been shown to be accurate, when tested in rigorous clinical trials, only 0-20% of the time.
Close examination finds it lacking in many areas.

http://www.zoeharcombe.com/2019/01/the-eat-lancet-diet-is-nutritionally-deficient/

https://www.nutritioncoalition.us/news/eatlancet-report-one-sided

WHAT I EAT FOR BREAKFAST

newtboy says...

What?! Transmorpher posted a set of pro vegan videos that claim to be "up to date on the latest nutritional and health research"? Never seen that before, at least this one doesn't claim moderate meat consumption will absolutely give you cancer.

Almost like veganism is a *cult instead of lifestyle or health plan.

BACON CAUSES CANCER!!!! MCDONALDS IS GIVING FREE CANCER!

Mordhaus says...

I, for one, am not trolling you. I agree that a vegetable based diet can have some healthy effects. I just do not see proof that it makes such a huge difference that it is a must follow plan. In addition, there are diets that limit the intake of certain proteins, like the Mediterranean diet, which have clearly shown to be just as effective as a non-animal based diet.

My major point of contention is that you are primarily posting videos that typically feature people or organizations that are WELL KNOWN for their tendency to overstate or blur the effectiveness of a Vegan diet. We are not herbivores, we are omnivores, and you can eat a protein restricted diet that is just as effective. But the PCRM and it's flunkies like Dr. Gregor would have you believe it is Vegan or nothing.

transmorpher said:

They aren't his claims though. That's what I'm trying to get you to understand.

You guys have to be trolling me, because I know you are smarter than this.

BACON CAUSES CANCER!!!! MCDONALDS IS GIVING FREE CANCER!

newtboy says...

Likely because the messenger is well known for lying about the science.

If his claims were true, established vegans would never get cancer or heart disease and meat eaters would all have cancer.

transmorpher said:

You're focusing on the messenger, and ignoring the science again.

Feel free to look up the study yourself, they make no effort to hide it, and it lists the journal it's from in the corner.

The conclusion is the same though, even if Hitler was talking about this study, the results wouldn't change. Vegan diets based on whole plant foods protect and reverse cancers. (and heart-disease.)

BACON CAUSES CANCER!!!! MCDONALDS IS GIVING FREE CANCER!

transmorpher says...

You're focusing on the messenger, and ignoring the science again.

Feel free to look up the study yourself, they make no effort to hide it, and it lists the journal it's from in the corner.

The conclusion is the same though, even if Hitler was talking about this study, the results wouldn't change. Vegan diets based on whole plant foods protect and reverse cancers. (and heart-disease.)

Mordhaus said:

Show me a study that isn't by a well known Vegan doctor who, btw, helped Oprah jumpstart an entirely unnecessary mad cow disease scare back in 1996.

Give me a link from a person who isn't described like this on their wikipedia page:

"Retired physician Harriet A. Hall, who is known as a skeptic in the medical community,[23][24][25] has written that, while it is well-accepted that it is more healthy to eat a plant-based diet than a typical Western diet, Greger often overstates the known benefits of such a diet as well as the harm caused by eating animal products (for example, in a talk, he claimed that a single meal rich in animal products can "cripple" one's arteries), and he sometimes does not discuss evidence that contradicts his strong claims."

A SINGLE MEAL can cripple your arteries. One meal. This is the person you are linking me to.

I should link you to Jillian Mai Thi Epperly and her 'jilly juice' which she claims expunges Candida from the body, and so by drinking a gallon of the juice every day, one can cure themselves of virtually any ailment, including autism, cancer, HIV, Down syndrome, and homosexuality.[2] The creator also claims that the juice can regrow lost limbs.

You don't have Vegan superpowers. At best you have a slightly better chance to live longer than someone else with a similar genetic makeup. That is science, that is fact.

Wise Beyond Her Years

transmorpher says...

Actual the PCRM and the AMA work closely together. They've recently passed a law that forces hospitals to provide a plant-based vegan option to patients in California because it helps them recover.

Mordhaus said:

It doesn't mention Vegan, but it does give you a link to a organization that is hardcore vegan and animal rights activists.

https://www.acsh.org/news/2002/02/14/physicians-committee-for-responsible-medicine-not-so-responsible

https://www.activistfacts.com/organizations/23-physicians-committee-for-responsible-medicine/

and so on.

Not to mention that while each meal can raise your percentage by 18%, it only will raise your lifetime average chance of getting colon cancer from 5% to 6%. As we discussed in my video https://videosift.com/video/BACON-CAUSES-CANCER-MCDONALDS-IS-GIVING-FREE-CANCER .

These same activists were officially censured by the American Medical Association by a unanimous vote.

Wise Beyond Her Years

Mordhaus says...

It doesn't mention Vegan, but it does give you a link to a organization that is hardcore vegan and animal rights activists.

https://www.acsh.org/news/2002/02/14/physicians-committee-for-responsible-medicine-not-so-responsible

https://www.activistfacts.com/organizations/23-physicians-committee-for-responsible-medicine/

and so on.

Not to mention that while each meal can raise your percentage by 18%, it only will raise your lifetime average chance of getting colon cancer from 5% to 6%. As we discussed in my video https://videosift.com/video/BACON-CAUSES-CANCER-MCDONALDS-IS-GIVING-FREE-CANCER .

These same activists were officially censured by the American Medical Association by a unanimous vote.

transmorpher said:

This video has nothing to do with veganism. It's a message from the World Health Organization, two other leading cancer institutes.

If you want to put your anti-vegan bias away for a minute, then notice how the message isn't saying "go vegan", it's simply saying don't eat processed meat. Hardly vegan.

The Elevator | 2019 Super Bowl Commercial | Hyundai

BACON CAUSES CANCER!!!! MCDONALDS IS GIVING FREE CANCER!

Mordhaus says...

Show me a study that isn't by a well known Vegan doctor who, btw, helped Oprah jumpstart an entirely unnecessary mad cow disease scare back in 1996.

Give me a link from a person who isn't described like this on their wikipedia page:

"Retired physician Harriet A. Hall, who is known as a skeptic in the medical community,[23][24][25] has written that, while it is well-accepted that it is more healthy to eat a plant-based diet than a typical Western diet, Greger often overstates the known benefits of such a diet as well as the harm caused by eating animal products (for example, in a talk, he claimed that a single meal rich in animal products can "cripple" one's arteries), and he sometimes does not discuss evidence that contradicts his strong claims."

A SINGLE MEAL can cripple your arteries. One meal. This is the person you are linking me to.

I should link you to Jillian Mai Thi Epperly and her 'jilly juice' which she claims expunges Candida from the body, and so by drinking a gallon of the juice every day, one can cure themselves of virtually any ailment, including autism, cancer, HIV, Down syndrome, and homosexuality.[2] The creator also claims that the juice can regrow lost limbs.

You don't have Vegan superpowers. At best you have a slightly better chance to live longer than someone else with a similar genetic makeup. That is science, that is fact.

transmorpher said:

In short yes. but it's not superpowers. it's science.

E.g.
Vegan blood kills cancer cells https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=drMyq5q0KTU

This is specifically a diet on whole food plants - a vegan junk food diet won't be anywhere near this protective. This is how you can tell I'm not being biased, because I'm not saying "be vegan" I'm advocating for a very specific diet, which just happens to be vegan.

But yes, eating a plant only diet prevents cancer in the first place, prevents it from spreading, helps with treatment, and prevents the cancer from coming back afterwards.

(I've got plenty more studies to show, but let's see we can get through this one bit of research first)



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