>> ^Avokineok:
I live in The Netherlands. Everytime I'm on Videosift, I get a sense of how bad it must be to be an American.
I see some great entertaiment with all the late night shows, but I feel bad for all of you who have to live in a country that has so many people taking everything said at Fox "News" ("Gossip" might be more appropriate) so seriously..
It seriously makes me said and makes me believe Amerika is not the land of opportunities; it's a land where people with a lot of money tell other people what think.


It's not true that most people take Fox News that seriously. Of a country of 300+ million people, they average somewhere between 2 and 5 million viewers on any given night (depending on the source), which is about equal to the viewership of all of the other 'liberal' channels combined. The Daily Show has about 1.5-2 million viewers every night.

The real fact is that most people 1) just don't care and 2) trust neither the government *nor* the media.

Edit: More random numbers, for comparison: 5-year-old reruns of Futurama regularly got ~1 million viewers at 1 am on a channel that shows only cartoons.

I live in The Netherlands. Everytime I'm on Videosift, I get a sense of how bad it must be to be an American.

I see some great entertaiment with all the late night shows, but I feel bad for all of you who have to live in a country that has so many people taking everything said at Fox "News" ("Gossip" might be more appropriate) so seriously..

It seriously makes me said and makes me believe Amerika is not the land of opportunities; it's a land where people with a lot of money tell other people what think.

This was marked private. I'm quoting in publicly because of this moron http://www.videosift.com/member/alien_concept#comment-897687
Sorry, rae.
>> ^alien_concept:
OK, first of all I want you to know, I happened upon this whole conversation between UP, rasch and yourself as I still visit now and again. Don't for one moment think that he's come crying to me.
If rasch was referring to anything creepy, then it wouldn't have been logs of conversations we've had, it would have been PM's. And also pointing out certain things you had written in threads, baiting me etc. Most of it was not private.
I wish I'd have come straight to you once everything had come out regarding bea, but honestly at that point I had already had enough of our relationship on here and had been avoiding talking to you for ages. Yes I'm a coward for not just straight up telling you things were bothering me. And yes, everything here could have been dealt with differently. The main reason for me not coming straight out and ever saying anything, was because I really felt that the way I carried on with you, that I had encouraged you. I am very open and broad minded. We have discussed numerous topics and I always came across like I was comfortable in anything we discussed. And for a long while I was.
Quite early on it became apparent that you had feelings for me. At this point I told you about myself and Jake, because I didn't want you to think that any relationship between us was possible. You will notice that Jake not once ever had a problem with the way we behaved around here or in fact on messenger. He just saw it all as a bit of fun and nothing to get possessive about. It was nothing to do with him, right? Because we were just friends, fooling around and being risque for a laugh.
The things that started bothering me were that you wouldn't let the coming here to see me lie. I'd give you a thousand excuses as to why it couldn't happen, at least not any time soon. But it was so regular, and the comments you made about how if you were Jake you'd have been here with me already (implying that he wasn't serious about me? that's kind of how it felt) and always with the questioning. Why did you have to wait til after he had been here, where do you live, what's your skype address (even though I told you that skype was only something I used for me and him). And telling me you'd found out how much it cost to get here etc etc. It built up and built up, and I didn't know how to tell you to back off without hurting your feelings entirely. I HATE hurting anyone, and like I said, I blamed myself for having not said anything before and letting it get to the point it was at, and potentially giving you mixed signals, by first telling you I was unavailable and then carrying on flirting with you (out in the open)and sharing graphic (although always sickly amusing) porn, and discussing other such personal subjects. I hadn't been careful, so instead of fronting it out with you, I ignored you. So shoot me...
When bea messaged me after you had left Texas, she did it not to gossip, but because your visit there had been a fucking disaster, she felt that you didn't understand any boundaries, you made her feel uncomfortable with the things you were coming out with and you had told her that you intended to come and see me. She felt like she had to warn me about how you had presented yourself there. The thing was, so many things rang true on what she was saying. That she hadn't outright invited you - just in the lounge she'd said off the cuff as she does, that yeah you should come to Texas one day, and the next thing she knew you'd booked tickets and she didn't have a clue how to say no. Well, you were relentless with me about coming here...
That you had made inappropriate sexual comments in front of her children. Well I remember one time you making one about my daughter too, something about when she came of age, blech. I took it as a joke, at the time although it didn't sit comfortably with me. Also I know that we have discussed your inability to find a woman. You yourself put it down to the fact that you had to get drunk to converse with them, and once that had happened you tended to become lewd and inappropriate, the drink was doing the talking. Now considering that you spent time there getting drunk and you definitely thought it was ok to grab IV's breast (btw, justifying that by saying that bea had just done it, what the fuck???) it didn't take much to come to the conclusion what with everything else that you were indeed not in your right mind. Whether you agree or not, that's how it all came about. It felt like the character you "played" on here, wasn't just a character after all. And that was fucking disturbing to me.
I sat on it forever. I wasn't going to bring any of it up because bea did not want the drama, and neither did IV. She also felt partly responsible for giving you the wrong idea about things because of the way she converses with everyone. And she didn't want it all to drag out like it has. But as I told you, after numerous PM's and references in video threads, then the limerick, and THEN what I truly felt to be another jab against me when you mentioned in the sift up thread that anyone who had secrets with you weren't secrets any more, I finally blew my lid. I just didn't want to be here any longer.
If you had have been on the outside of this looking in like rasch has been, I'm pretty sure that you would have, after all the evidence presented to you, felt that it needed to once and for all be addressed. I'm not saying he couldn't have gone about it in a better way, he definitely could. But then, so could we all have done, isn't that right? I'd like you to stop blaming him for everything now, it's somewhat projecting rather than really taking a look at how and why things have happened how they have. He has freely admitted that he should have been more discreet, and now he is just left defending his corner without really being able to say anything at all. Enough is enough.
I hope this explains what you have wanted to know. Whether you agree with the accusations made against you, they have been made. Not just by one person, but two and that's not including her family and friends who were around too I'm sure. IV apologised with you to keep the peace and not let it all get blown up publically like it has and to stop bea being blamed for everything like she was after she flamed out. It's likely that she didn't actually forgive you at all and that she is too nice of a person to really come out and say what she thinks. I can relate. I hope you reflect on all of this and you consider how things can end up, as have I on numerous occasions. And yes, it's your word against hers. Either of you could be talking shit. But I'm taking her version, as have people chosen to take yours.
Rae

Edit: Apologies, I just noticed you changed yours to private, so I will do the same now.
Edit 2: No fuck it, it's public. Say thanks to this moron: http://rasch187.videosift.com/#comment-897638

Hi again Rae,

First off, I'm sorry about the mile long wall of text. I do hope you will read all of it none-the-less.

I'm glad you came out yourself to address this, because it's better we get this over with properly, so we can move on with our lives.

I'll stress as well, that UP and Rasch got in to their fight on their own, I had no involvement until UP sent me a message about it.

I was under a completely different impression about being invited to bea's place and honestly I still am. I didn't try to force myself over there, but when she invited me, however casually, we discussed quite a bit on messenger afterwards. I wouldn't have gone over there if I had been given the slightest impression that she was not comfortable with it. I'm very sorry that she did feel pressured into it, but I never intended to do that. I just saw a trip to Texas as a golden opportunity to get OUT, get away from Denmark for a while. As we discussed in our chats, I had been feeling restless and bogged down in everyday life for a pretty long and her invitation was like a blessing to me (for lack of a better word). I may have been eager about it, but I don't know what to say - I just wanted to get out. I didn't buy the tickets overnight - we did discuss it, and we chatted quite a lot before I did come over there, and she never gave any indication that she didn't want me to come over.

In the very first chat we had on messenger, I very clearly remember it, you said.. "I could seriously fall for you" and followed it up by "but I'm actually already taken (...)" and we got into a discussion about jake and all that. I accepted it already then. We both carried on afterwards with talking dirty and watching all that weird porn (you were quite as much to blame for that!) and I had loads of fun, because you were much different from anyone I knew. You made me smile when we talked.

I'm sorry I didn't let the coming to meet you lie, but I was not being so frantically serious about it. I really wanted to meet you, yes, and to be honest I still would, in a crowded room, with many sifters. At a siftup, perhaps. (Incidentally, I have nothing against Jake. I think he's a good guy and you two ARE lucky to have found each other.)

I never meant to imply that he and you were not serious. You made it abundantly clear that you were very serious, I was just being a smart-ass, because if I had been in his shoes that's what I would have wanted to do. I never meant to imply anything about you and Jake with that, so I'm sorry you saw it as such. I really am.

About skype and messenger for that matter, I only asked for your skype address once and it was partly meant as a joke; and with your reply "no way, that's just for me and jake" I let that lie. The other part of that was that I wanted to just talk with you, to hear your voice, and it had been a long time since we chatted, so I wrote that message - as you said, so shoot me...

I know you hate hurting people and I appreciate that, but in the end this has hurt a lot more. If you had told me something to the effect "I think this coming over to meet me is making me uncomfortable, because you're too persistent - I like you as a friend, but I don't want to meet with you, at least not on my own or right now" I would have apologized right there and I would have learned to ease up with you. Instead I kept teasing you with it, and as I've said before, to jake and you, I believe, my common sense was just out of wack because of all the shit we talked about. I never saw it coming that you just did not want to talk to me, and when you wrote your "tired of the bullshit" I had no idea what you were getting on about, so it hurt.. to be honest, it really hurt. I was messed up all day from that and that's why I was so after getting a bigger reply after that. I felt as if I had been hit by a bus, because I truly considered you a friend.

About the trip to Texas. I did not get the impression that it was a disaster at all. She was a bit pissed with me for the boob grabbing, but it was only two days after she booted me because she had to tend to her father's funeral. In that two day span, everything was just dandy, I mean, she never gave any indication that it was so disastrous. Yes, the boobgrabbing was way over the line, we've been over that a million times and I've apologized as much as I can about it. The environment that they created was a factor in me doing it, it was not just "because I was drunk" - I wasn't THAT drunk, and I don't get grabby in general. When I am in good company, with people I consider friends, I can be quite dirty talking, sure, but I'm not a sexually offensive guy physically at all, I just followed their lead when they freaking made out on the porch I though, "well three can play that game" and did it. I know that was wrong, but that's the reason I did it. I didn't want to freak them out as bad as they clearly did, and they didn't do anything at the time, they just basically shrugged it off.

As we have discussed earlier, I portray myself here as pretty much myself - not completely, I take it to much larger extremes here, but mostly I'm just being myself.

Also I know that we have discussed your inability to find a woman. You yourself put it down to the fact that you had to get drunk to converse with them, and once that had happened you tended to become lewd and inappropriate, the drink was doing the talking

I think you are getting at this from a wrong angle. They are two different issues. One is that I don't have the nerve to approach strange girls, or really strangers altogether, but I loosen up when I get a beer in me. Most guys can relate to that, girls too, I would think. Second, I'm not lewd and inappropriate around people I don't know, even when I'm drunk, I only get like that around people that I like - as in if we're a bunch from my year on the university out getting smashed or something. The reason I got like that at bea's place the one night, was because I was having a good time and the three of them were good company. Yeah, I did swear to the three adults, but I never did so to any of her kids - I don't want to freak out kids, I don't really even like kids, but I think I behaved pretty well around her children in general, except for when we had that game of scrabble and I swore to iv or bea in casual conversation, when the little one had just snuck out from the bedroom. I was doing this partly to be intentionally teasing, because we had just had a discussion earlier about what one should and shouldn't say to kids. Bea had sworn as well earlier in casual conversation, so I did not take that as so terrible. Evidently, I was mistaken.

I never EVER said anything sexual to any of her kids. I'm appalled that she thinks that, because I don't do that.

The remark after the siftup was not aimed at you at all and I was perplexed that you saw it as such, because we didn't have any secrets at all. As we chatted on messenger about, I never intended it for you it was just a general remark to sifters.

Concerning rasch. I made it clear in private to you that I didn't like him. He was an obnoxious person and he should go suck a fuck. I still hold that opinion. If our roles had been reversed, I would have told YOU to take care of the situation, instead of interjecting myself as a fucking savior to get you poor women the rescue you so needed. That's because I'm a nice person, who don't put my own ego in front of everyone else's. The chat that he quoted between you and him seems to me to be pretty damn two-faced from you as well. You present yourself one way to me and another to him. That's not nice,, at all. I know exactly what he did and so does everyone else - it's plainly public. He acted like an aggressive brute trying to verbally punch me out in his comments. He attacked me way earlier than that as well, the comment you laughed about a while back, even though he did apologize for that afterwards. He deserves the tiny little corner of shame that he painted himself into.

The accusations made against me are many and plentiful (well, three in total counting boobgrabbing, gutter mouthing and your own), but I think it's a shame that yours and bea's have been muddled together, because they are really two separate issues.

I'm quite angry with bea still, because it's because of her that this has blown up and blown so out of proportion as it has. This was not my doing - any of you could have approached me privately and that could have been that - if you had explained what I had done wrong. All of you, except Cari, just ignored me and left me in the complete dark. Cari kept me on facebook and was in general like she always was, but said she didn't want to get involved when I asked what was up with bea, because she had removed me from facebook. I respected that and I still do - she acted the most like an adult. I think you are out of line to suggest why she apologized, but while you may or may not be right, she apologized none-the-less. And we are still friendly around each other, even though she is the one that was slighted the most. I'm not going to visit her in person, probably ever, but that doesn't mean that we can't be civil. I still think she's fun and a boon.

It's likely that she didn't actually forgive you at all and that she is too nice of a person to really come out and say what she thinks. I can relate.

You are being awfully passive-aggressive here and presumptuous. I would welcome her saying all she wanted to me in private if she wanted, but she already has - and we've patched things up as far as we could at this time. We're in a good place now both of us as far as I know.

Bea got blamed for everything justly in my opinion - I got my share of grizzly attacks too, which I feel terrible about, but I owned up to my fucking mistakes - she just shits on the floor and slams the door behind her. She has as much blame in this situation as I do and if she wants to flame out, as she did, then I have no interest in patching anything up with her. She was fun to talk to, if a big damn bit more crazy than you, for instance, but fun non-the-less. Not so much anymore. I acted pretty well over there and if she had issues with me, she could have just told me. We sat on her porch and talked while she smoked plenty of times and no indication at all. Her family and friends were never there except Cari and their friend Rick on that Tuesday with the boobgrabbing (and of course the kids, who I was very nice to).

Have I lied to you before? Honestly, ever? I've only ever been painfully truthful and if I wanted to just talk shit, wouldn't I have painted a much more rose-tinted version? I'm sorry you are taking her version, because it is far more skewed than mine is - and dammit, I ought to have deserved some trust with you.. we were friends!

I've reflected on this long and hard, I truly have, and I think I have learned from it as well. I've toned down my lewdness and I find myself holding my tongue more often than before. But not much else is to change, unless I want to be a completely different person, and all my friends seem to like me as I am just fine, so I don't want to change into something I'm not.

I've also learned that there are people in this world, who will fuck you over. I am not one of those people and I don't think you are either. We all make mistakes and misjudgments and I think you are misjudging me. I still would like to be your "friend" in some capacity, but you make it pretty clear you don't want that. I'm sorry you don't. I will consider myself as on friendly terms with you and if you do come back to the sift some time, then I will treat you respectfully and I hope you will do the same thing with me.

I still feel terrible about how all this happened and about how our friendship fell apart. :-/

Nicki.

PS. Incidentally, I have found a woman, who I am very glad for and who for some bizarre reason likes me a whole lot too, so I HAVE grown a bit at least.

In reply to this comment by alien_concept:
OK, first of all I want you to know, I happened upon this whole conversation between UP, rasch and yourself as I still visit now and again. Don't for one moment think that he's come crying to me.

If rasch was referring to anything creepy, then it wouldn't have been logs of conversations we've had, it would have been PM's. And also pointing out certain things you had written in threads, baiting me etc. Most of it was not private.

I wish I'd have come straight to you once everything had come out regarding bea, but honestly at that point I had already had enough of our relationship on here and had been avoiding talking to you for ages. Yes I'm a coward for not just straight up telling you things were bothering me. And yes, everything here could have been dealt with differently. The main reason for me not coming straight out and ever saying anything, was because I really felt that the way I carried on with you, that I had encouraged you. I am very open and broad minded. We have discussed numerous topics and I always came across like I was comfortable in anything we discussed. And for a long while I was.

Quite early on it became apparent that you had feelings for me. At this point I told you about myself and Jake, because I didn't want you to think that any relationship between us was possible. You will notice that Jake not once ever had a problem with the way we behaved around here or in fact on messenger. He just saw it all as a bit of fun and nothing to get possessive about. It was nothing to do with him, right? Because we were just friends, fooling around and being risque for a laugh.

The things that started bothering me were that you wouldn't let the coming here to see me lie. I'd give you a thousand excuses as to why it couldn't happen, at least not any time soon. But it was so regular, and the comments you made about how if you were Jake you'd have been here with me already (implying that he wasn't serious about me? that's kind of how it felt) and always with the questioning. Why did you have to wait til after he had been here, where do you live, what's your skype address (even though I told you that skype was only something I used for me and him). And telling me you'd found out how much it cost to get here etc etc. It built up and built up, and I didn't know how to tell you to back off without hurting your feelings entirely. I HATE hurting anyone, and like I said, I blamed myself for having not said anything before and letting it get to the point it was at, and potentially giving you mixed signals, by first telling you I was unavailable and then carrying on flirting with you (out in the open)and sharing graphic (although always sickly amusing) porn, and discussing other such personal subjects. I hadn't been careful, so instead of fronting it out with you, I ignored you. So shoot me...

When bea messaged me after you had left Texas, she did it not to gossip, but because your visit there had been a fucking disaster, she felt that you didn't understand any boundaries, you made her feel uncomfortable with the things you were coming out with and you had told her that you intended to come and see me. She felt like she had to warn me about how you had presented yourself there. The thing was, so many things rang true on what she was saying. That she hadn't outright invited you - just in the lounge she'd said off the cuff as she does, that yeah you should come to Texas one day, and the next thing she knew you'd booked tickets and she didn't have a clue how to say no. Well, you were relentless with me about coming here...

That you had made inappropriate sexual comments in front of her children. Well I remember one time you making one about my daughter too, something about when she came of age, blech. I took it as a joke, at the time although it didn't sit comfortably with me. Also I know that we have discussed your inability to find a woman. You yourself put it down to the fact that you had to get drunk to converse with them, and once that had happened you tended to become lewd and inappropriate, the drink was doing the talking. Now considering that you spent time there getting drunk and you definitely thought it was ok to grab IV's breast (btw, justifying that by saying that bea had just done it, what the fuck???) it didn't take much to come to the conclusion what with everything else that you were indeed not in your right mind. Whether you agree or not, that's how it all came about. It felt like the character you "played" on here, wasn't just a character after all. And that was fucking disturbing to me.

I sat on it forever. I wasn't going to bring any of it up because bea did not want the drama, and neither did IV. She also felt partly responsible for giving you the wrong idea about things because of the way she converses with everyone. And she didn't want it all to drag out like it has. But as I told you, after numerous PM's and references in video threads, then the limerick, and THEN what I truly felt to be another jab against me when you mentioned in the sift up thread that anyone who had secrets with you weren't secrets any more, I finally blew my lid. I just didn't want to be here any longer.

If you had have been on the outside of this looking in like rasch has been, I'm pretty sure that you would have, after all the evidence presented to you, felt that it needed to once and for all be addressed. I'm not saying he couldn't have gone about it in a better way, he definitely could. But then, so could we all have done, isn't that right? I'd like you to stop blaming him for everything now, it's somewhat projecting rather than really taking a look at how and why things have happened how they have. He has freely admitted that he should have been more discreet, and now he is just left defending his corner without really being able to say anything at all. Enough is enough.

I hope this explains what you have wanted to know. Whether you agree with the accusations made against you, they have been made. Not just by one person, but two and that's not including her family and friends who were around too I'm sure. IV apologised with you to keep the peace and not let it all get blown up publically like it has and to stop bea being blamed for everything like she was after she flamed out. It's likely that she didn't actually forgive you at all and that she is too nice of a person to really come out and say what she thinks. I can relate. I hope you reflect on all of this and you consider how things can end up, as have I on numerous occasions. And yes, it's your word against hers. Either of you could be talking shit. But I'm taking her version, as have people chosen to take yours.

Rae

Comment hidden because you are ignoring dag. (show it anyway)

I would take you up on it, readily.

In reply to this comment by UsesProzac:
It has to be a major headache trying to keep everyone pacified. If I was near you, I'd buy you a beer. Or some warm sake. Ah.. Thanks for listening to me.

In reply to this comment by dag:
I appreciate your concern and you have a point- but I'm not dragging more people into this conversation- I've said my piece and have registered your disappointment, thanks.

In reply to this comment by UsesProzac:
You'll never grasp the situation wholly unless you're a direct part of it. And who are these "several" people who have left the Sift because of him??

In reply to this comment by dag:
Why do you assume I'm referring to gossip? I don't think I referenced anything unsubstantiated in my comments and I have communicated with the people involved.

In reply to this comment by UsesProzac:
Wow. I'm really disappointed in you.. "Hurting the Sift" Every time I hear that phrase, I think less of it. For someone who claims to be impartial, you really take gossip to heart.

In reply to this comment by dag:
You continue to downplay your role in matters to the point of self-delusion- I'm leaving this discussion here- but my original message stands, please keep your feuds contained in profile comments or off the Sift. In complete honesty - I would prefer that you left the community- as I think there is some risk in your attitudes and behaviour to others. If you're going to stay, please prove me wrong by not hurting the Sift further.

It has to be a major headache trying to keep everyone pacified. If I was near you, I'd buy you a beer. Or some warm sake. Ah.. Thanks for listening to me.

In reply to this comment by dag:
I appreciate your concern and you have a point- but I'm not dragging more people into this conversation- I've said my piece and have registered your disappointment, thanks.

In reply to this comment by UsesProzac:
You'll never grasp the situation wholly unless you're a direct part of it. And who are these "several" people who have left the Sift because of him??

In reply to this comment by dag:
Why do you assume I'm referring to gossip? I don't think I referenced anything unsubstantiated in my comments and I have communicated with the people involved.

In reply to this comment by UsesProzac:
Wow. I'm really disappointed in you.. "Hurting the Sift" Every time I hear that phrase, I think less of it. For someone who claims to be impartial, you really take gossip to heart.

In reply to this comment by dag:
You continue to downplay your role in matters to the point of self-delusion- I'm leaving this discussion here- but my original message stands, please keep your feuds contained in profile comments or off the Sift. In complete honesty - I would prefer that you left the community- as I think there is some risk in your attitudes and behaviour to others. If you're going to stay, please prove me wrong by not hurting the Sift further.

Comment hidden because you are ignoring dag. (show it anyway)

I appreciate your concern and you have a point- but I'm not dragging more people into this conversation- I've said my piece and have registered your disappointment, thanks.

In reply to this comment by UsesProzac:
You'll never grasp the situation wholly unless you're a direct part of it. And who are these "several" people who have left the Sift because of him??

In reply to this comment by dag:
Why do you assume I'm referring to gossip? I don't think I referenced anything unsubstantiated in my comments and I have communicated with the people involved.

In reply to this comment by UsesProzac:
Wow. I'm really disappointed in you.. "Hurting the Sift" Every time I hear that phrase, I think less of it. For someone who claims to be impartial, you really take gossip to heart.

In reply to this comment by dag:
You continue to downplay your role in matters to the point of self-delusion- I'm leaving this discussion here- but my original message stands, please keep your feuds contained in profile comments or off the Sift. In complete honesty - I would prefer that you left the community- as I think there is some risk in your attitudes and behaviour to others. If you're going to stay, please prove me wrong by not hurting the Sift further.

You'll never grasp the situation wholly unless you're a direct part of it. And who are these "several" people who have left the Sift because of him??

I'm tired of seeing people who have no business in this shit calling him delusional and a sociopath. It really disturbs me how far this has gone.

In reply to this comment by dag:
Why do you assume I'm referring to gossip? I don't think I referenced anything unsubstantiated in my comments and I have communicated with the people involved.

In reply to this comment by UsesProzac:
Wow. I'm really disappointed in you.. "Hurting the Sift" Every time I hear that phrase, I think less of it. For someone who claims to be impartial, you really take gossip to heart.

In reply to this comment by dag:
You continue to downplay your role in matters to the point of self-delusion- I'm leaving this discussion here- but my original message stands, please keep your feuds contained in profile comments or off the Sift. In complete honesty - I would prefer that you left the community- as I think there is some risk in your attitudes and behaviour to others. If you're going to stay, please prove me wrong by not hurting the Sift further.

Comment hidden because you are ignoring dag. (show it anyway)

Why do you assume I'm referring to gossip? I don't think I referenced anything unsubstantiated in my comments and I have communicated with the people involved.

In reply to this comment by UsesProzac:
Wow. I'm really disappointed in you.. "Hurting the Sift" Every time I hear that phrase, I think less of it. For someone who claims to be impartial, you really take gossip to heart.

In reply to this comment by dag:
You continue to downplay your role in matters to the point of self-delusion- I'm leaving this discussion here- but my original message stands, please keep your feuds contained in profile comments or off the Sift. In complete honesty - I would prefer that you left the community- as I think there is some risk in your attitudes and behaviour to others. If you're going to stay, please prove me wrong by not hurting the Sift further.

Wow. I'm really disappointed in you.. "Hurting the Sift" Every time I hear that phrase, I think less of it. For someone who claims to be impartial, you really take gossip to heart.

If you honestly think that Gwiz is a dangerous person[hah!], quit pussy footing around and ban him. You started it with your snide remarks..

I didn't want to butt in, but this last comment of yours really offended me. Gwiz didn't do anything wrong to the Sift. Policing his actions outside of the Sift seems a bit fucked up, like getting suspended from school for doing drugs at a friend's house. O_o

In reply to this comment by dag:
You continue to downplay your role in matters to the point of self-delusion- I'm leaving this discussion here- but my original message stands, please keep your feuds contained in profile comments or off the Sift. In complete honesty - I would prefer that you left the community- as I think there is some risk in your attitudes and behaviour to others. If you're going to stay, please prove me wrong by not hurting the Sift further.

Even though I am not posting atm, I am alive and kicking, and I do check VS - mostly just sifttalk these days - at least a few times a week. Every morning I do check cnn.com, 2 or 3 of my local news sites, and .. (yes, no 'manly man' will probably check some of these, or at least admit it.. but they are good/fun sites I check for mental wellbeing/fun/laughter!)

http://www.engrish.com/ and
http://awkwardfamilyphotos.com/ - just for laughs

http://www.perezhilton.com/ - OK, I love celebrity gossip

http://www.aint-it-cool-news.com/ - Well, ain't this cool?

http://www.aromaleigh.com/ - as a female, with make-up allergies, mineral make-up is the best!!

http://www.bme.com/ - OK, I have just one non-ear-related piercing, but this place has it all.. piercings, tattoos, implants and then some..

And

http://www.rottentomatoes.com/ - just to see if what you wanted to go see in the movies this week really is worth watching!

There are certainly a lot of elements to the decline of newspapers in North America and the world, and yes the internet is one of them. I think the point that Moore is making here is that as well as being drawn to the internet--for reasons us internet users all have some idea of--many literate readers were also pushed there by actions of newspapers that he describes.

In the "olden days" when the paper (and journalism) was an integral part of conveying information, informing towns communities about all the critical subjects Moore lists and more. Such journalism was part of the fabric that stitched society together. Now, instead of being united by concerns of labour, poverty and crime, people are united by celebrity gossip, fluff and "smaller words" style articles. "Real news" is often limited to syndicated columns Associated Press, Reuters or other wire services, or a "small words" summery of articles found there. Many papers have turned to sensationalizing news attract readers instead of intelligent original content.

Moore brings up a good point (not in this clip) by contrasting North American newspapers with those of Europe. While it is true that European papers have declined (in the wake of the internet), it isn't to the same extent as NorthAm. However some newspapers have flourished in spite of this downward trend because that chose base their business model on innovation rather than sheer profit.

check out: http://www.videosift.com/video/Are-North-American-Newspapers-Doomed

Ok, ok, ok, i could tip toe around the whole thread and say "I think everyone is doing their best here, everyone means well, it's good that this is out!" But i won't.

This is fucking rediclous. And i hate to suggest these steps because even THIS is dragging the shit even further, but what other option have i to show how unfair this entire thing is to gwiz?

If someone did something illegal, then the police should have been involved.
If someone did something inappropriate, then THE USUAL METHODS AND SOCIAL CONVENTIONS SHOULD REIGN SUPREME.
ie.
Broach the subject with said person and make sure they know it was inappropriate - it could be that in our world of 6 billion fucking people, not everyone sees things the same fucking way as the other 5,999,999,999 people.
If harassment continues by phone or mail or in person, you can go via legal channels.
If harassment continues WITHIN THE CONFINES OF VIDEOSIFT, you can ignore that person and if the harassment continues still in another form, you can request that a site admin deals with the problem.

None of these options require you to defame his character in public.

There are correct channels to have problems such as these dealt with so that we do not need to resort to a public lynch mob. The reason we left lynch mobs and village-rumour and gossip behind in favour of the legal system is because those methods are invaraiably unjust.

I once heard a story about a woman who spread rumours in a town that her husband beat and raped her so that his reputation was absolutely destroyed. If it happened and if the public were in danger and needed to know, she should have taken the issue to the relevant authority, and the public would be informed - by the necessary people in authority. No one knew whether she lied or whether she was telling the truth, no one really knew ANYTHING about it except those who were there. But that guy's reputation was absolutely fucked.

I like everyone here, there is not a single person i dislike in the entire thread. I like everyone from gwiz to the people that started the thread. But this is not the right thing to do.

You've done a horrible, horrible thing.

>> ^Deano:
Love the lurid commentary. He probably does the celeb gossip as well.



Sounds like Ed Herlihy's grandson perhaps http://www.videosift.com/video/Old-Timey-Newsreel-on-the-Suez-Crisis-and-more

Love the lurid commentary. He probably does the celeb gossip as well.