Hey, if you promise to vote Obama, you can call me anything you like.

Force of habit on the Phil Gramm swipe. I think that story is absolute gold for showing anyone who's paying attention just what kind of economic advisers McCain has surrounded himself with. But that's negative-campaigning kind've stuff, not an issues-based conversation.

I don't think all Democrats have been perfect, and I disagreed with Clinton on several of his deregulation moves. Usually I bitch about telecomm deregulation (it needed it, but he went too far), but the bill I accuse Phil Gramm of writing, Bill Clinton signed into law. Same with the Enron loophole; Phil Gramm wrote it, Bill Clinton signed it.

I hadn't heard that Clinton had eroded the standards on lending, but I doubt that was the main/only factor in the mortgage failures we're seeing now. I do think without the deregulation of Phil Gramm, companies wouldn't have been able to massively overextend themselves like this, and turn the U.S. mortgage problem into a global financial crisis.

As for where were the Democrats in 2004? Not the White House, in the minority of both chambers of Congress, and with little support in the Supreme Court.

As for Congress now, I think their 9% approval is well-earned. If I were polled on my approval of Congress, I'd say I disapprove -- ask me why and I'd say "because my party is caving". Ask the average Republican, and it's because they haven't been able to utterly silence Democrats. Ask the average Independent, and they'll say "because all they do is bicker, and nothing gets done".

I know I'm sappy about Obama, but he's very much trying to get politics back to the point where people like you and I have more opportunities to see balanced proposals passed, without everything turning into a mortal battle for supremacy between the two parties/ideologies.

Democrats, especially under Obama, are not absolutists -- we're just arguing from the position that some government meddling is necessary, and that there should be some equalizing pressure on the market (e.g. public education, progresive taxes, universal healthcare) keeping things from getting too lopsided.

In reply to this comment by deedub81:
Forget all these loser politicians! You and I should start our own country! CommonSenseville.
I'll be the King, you can be the Queen.


You're quick to point the finger at Phil Gramm. He's not without fault, but neither are many of the Democrats (including Papa Clinton).

http://ibdeditorial.com/IBDArticles.aspx?id=306370789279709

Take that with a grain of salt. I'm simply pointing out that this hasn't been a one-sided mistake. I agree with the "bit of fine tuning" that you talk about, but Clinton practically took away the ability of Fannie and Freddie to turn down "bad loans." It's not like he twisted their arm, but still.

I used to work as a loan officer in CA. Did so for 4 years starting in 2000 (right after the Clinton years). Even I saw it coming. I could fit almost anybody with a job a mortgage program that would get approved (and purchased on the secondary market). The other LO's and the Branch Managers would talk about how awesome Bill Clinton was for forcing the secondary market to buy riskier loans. We were all reaping the benefits (little did we know...). I'm no economist, but like I said, I started to realize that it wasn't headed in the right direction back in 2004.

Where were the democrats then?

http://politics.videosift.com/talk/The-OLD-Bush-Plan-for-Fannie-Mae-and-Freddie-Mac-Oversight

There is a reason that Congress has a 9% approval rating and it's not only the Republican's fault. The Dems have had the majority since the last election, remember?


I do want to let you know that I think you're mostly right about what the next step should be.

Forget all these loser politicians! You and I should start our own country! CommonSenseville.
I'll be the King, you can be the Queen.


You're quick to point the finger at Phil Gramm. He's not without fault, but neither are many of the Democrats (including Papa Clinton).

http://ibdeditorial.com/IBDArticles.aspx?id=306370789279709

Take that with a grain of salt. I'm simply pointing out that this hasn't been a one-sided mistake. I agree with the "bit of fine tuning" that you talk about, but Clinton practically took away the ability of Fannie and Freddie to turn down "bad loans." It's not like he twisted their arm, but still.

I used to work as a loan officer in CA. Did so for 4 years starting in 2000 (right after the Clinton years). Even I saw it coming. I could fit almost anybody with a job a mortgage program that would get approved (and purchased on the secondary market). The other LO's and the Branch Managers would talk about how awesome Bill Clinton was for forcing the secondary market to buy riskier loans. We were all reaping the benefits (little did we know...). I'm no economist, but like I said, I started to realize that it wasn't headed in the right direction back in 2004.

Where were the democrats then?

http://politics.videosift.com/talk/The-OLD-Bush-Plan-for-Fannie-Mae-and-Freddie-Mac-Oversight

There is a reason that Congress has a 9% approval rating and it's not only the Republican's fault. The Dems have had the majority since the last election, remember?


I do want to let you know that I think you're mostly right about what the next step should be.



In reply to this comment by NetRunner:
I think on this count, you're in agreement with me, and the Democratic party.

However, I think we're looking at more than a lull right now. The Democrats would prefer our actions be focused on putting money into the bottom of the economy, instead of the top, but I think that something needed to be done to bail out Fannie and Freddie at this point. I just don't think preserving the executives' bonus compensation packages should have been part of the deal.

I'd rather Phil Gramm and the Republicans hadn't deregulated the finance markets in the first place -- that's what opened the door for this kind of unchecked expansion into an area where no one was being honest about the risks.

Now those risks everyone denied or concealed are turning out to be real, and they're turning to the taxpayers to keep them solvent.

I think a modern-day leftie like me would say that so long as we had unemployment insurance for everyone, universal healthcare, and fair bankruptcy laws, we don't need to bail any company out -- let the downturn happen, and rely on the social safety net to keep people from starving or dying.

I also think that once it becomes clear what the root cause of the market failure was, we should add some regulation (as little as possible) to reduce the likelihood of a similar catastrophe from happening in the future.

I think the biggest misconception people have of Democrats is that they think we don't believe in the benefits of a free market -- we absolutely do -- we just think it needs a bit of fine tuning from time to time to keep it healthy.

In reply to this comment by deedub81:
I do think the eonomy thrives when most things are left up to the market. The gov't doesn't need to pour money into the economy every time there is a lull.

"We need to stop sending $700B to countries that don't like us very much"

WTF?? Are you insane, we went to Iraq as a favor to Bush's Saudi buddies. We get oil from Iraq and Saudis who rip us off.

Oh wait, we pissed of Venezuela who could literally solve our energy problems if Bush was such a big asshole to Venezuela. (Oh and trying to organize a coup never helps).

What about the hundred of billions we have given to Iraqis (who don't like us very much) and it all went missing. At least the Saudi's give us oil in return, oh and also plane hijackers, and they cleaned up the NYC skyline for us. Thanks Saudis. Thanks Bush's buddies. Thanks Bandar Bush, Papa Bush, and all the bin Ladens.

They made at least a dozen of those annoying ads, re-using their famous "uppercut" gesture. The best came when Papa embarked his second son in the family business. In this French version, notice how he transformed the uppercut into a oddly suspicious motion...

*In his best Papa Klump impression* That's some scary shit.

Cowboy Junkies:Misguided Angel
From LyricWiki
This song is performed by Cowboy Junkies.

I said "Mama, he's crazy and he scares me
But I want him by my side
though he's wild and he's bad
and sometimes just plain mad
I need him to keep me satisfied"

I said "Papa, don't cry cause it's alright
And I see you in some of his ways
Though he might not give me the life that you wanted
I'll love him the rest of my days"

Misguided angel hangin' over me
Heart like a Gabriel, pure and white as ivory
Soul like a Lucifer, black and cold like a piece of lead
Misguided angel, love you 'til I'm dead

I said "Brother, you speak to me of passion
You said never to settle for nothing less
Well, it's in the way he walks,
it's in the way he talks
His smile, his anger and his kisses"

I said "Sister, don't you understand?
He's all I ever wanted in a man
I'm tired of sittin' around the T.V. every night
Hoping I'm finding a Mr. Right"

Misguided angel hangin' over me
Heart like a Gabriel, pure and white as ivory
Soul like a Lucifer
Black and cold like a piece of lead
Misguided angel, love you 'til I'm dead

He says "Baby, don't listen to what they say
There comes a time when you have to break away"
He says "Baby there are things we all cling to all our life
It's time to let them go and become my wife"

Misguided angel hangin' over me
Heart like a Gabriel, pure and white as ivory
Soul like a Lucifer
Black and cold like a piece of lead
Misguided angel, love you 'til I'm dead

Congratulation, littledragon! I knew you were special from the get-go, seeing as Papa Zifnab devoured your 78 older siblings but chose to let you live. Don't keep climbing too fast, as he still has room in his belly for one more.

I believe its "Papa Lazarou" from the league of gentlemen

Tags for this video have been changed from 'mario, nintendo, papa bear, oreilly' to 'mario, nintendo, papa bear, oreilly, Bill O Reilly' - edited by MarineGunrock

Does Papa Bear say: "it's offensive to muslims, which isn't necessarily bad"?

1. Nine Inch Nails - The Only Time
2. Lag Wagon - Change Despair
3. Weird Al - White and Nerdy (seriously, this came up?)
4. Frickin' A - Jessie's Girl (Cover)
5. Papa Roach - My Heart is a Fist
6. AFI - Malleus Maleficarum
7. Avenged Sevenfold - Beast and the Harlot
8. Vertical Horizon - Everything You Want
9. The Used - Everything You Want
10. Placebo - Protect Me From What I Want

Got some good....and some I don't want to talk about...

Quantum mushroom must live in a very nice and easy world - everything is neatly categorized in left, right, bad, good, right wrong, jesus, not jesus by Nill O'Reilly. It must be so nice not having to thing, just repeat everything Papa Bear says.

Dumbass.

Those be mine. Proudest moment of my life. Boy and a girl, who have graduated from that avatar to last month's acquisition of driver's licenses, much to my insurance agent's delight and their parent's worry.

In reply to this comment by laura:
are you a new papa of twins, or is the new avatar an inside joke I need to know about?
Just curious!

are you a new papa of twins, or is the new avatar an inside joke I need to know about?
Just curious!

How many papas do we have on the sift? We have a more mature audience than most sites, I think.