Hmm, thanks Doc. Another question:

"Moses assembled the whole Israelite community and said to them, “These are the things the LORD has commanded you to do: For six days, work is to be done, but the seventh day shall be your holy day, a Sabbath of rest to the LORD. Whoever does any work on it must be put to death."

Jews in general still try not to do anything that qualifies as "work" on Sunday, right? Well why bother with that at all if they aren't going to enforce it and kill Jews that do work on Sundays?

Is the killing bit one of those things, like the passages about how to treat your slaves, that people have decided "well, these are modern times, we aren't going to do that any more"?

I guess what I'm saying is that I don't understand how people can just decide to ignore some of their holy book, but follow others. I know some people will say, "well, this is just a metaphor, you aren't really supposed to do it", but then who decides what parts of the book to use and which to ignore?

I suppose that's the reason there are so many subsets of each religion (roman catholic, methodist, 7th day adventist, orthodox jew, jihadist...). People decide what "level" of religiosity they want, then join a group of similarly-feeling people, and they do their religion together.

Comment hidden because you are ignoring dag. (show it anyway)

>> ^dystopianfuturetoday:
Maybe they specialize in copulatory sheets for Orthodox Jews?


You mean the ones with the holes in them? Hah anyone dare me to dress up as an othodox jew - go in and ask for them?

edit: actually that hole in the sheet thing, is all an urban legend - I feel silly, I thought it was real.
http://www.snopes.com/religion/sheet.asp

Maybe they specialize in copulatory sheets for Orthodox Jews?

History Repeats itself - why didn't the Orthodox Jews pictured in the vid FIGHT BACK and beat the FUK out of this guy instead of running away???? You can't complain about being a victim if you live your life as a coward. FIGHT BACK DAMNIT!

"Israel is well known for treating its Arab population as second class citizens."

Gwaa, no one said Israel is perfect. Ofcourse there will be some level of discrimination against arabs. That may never change. It just so happens that Israeli settlers and a lot of orthodox israelis are discriminted against as well. I've heard first hand from Israelis that many of them dont like first Arabs, second orthodox jews. In fact one secular Israeli who was removed from Gaza as part of the disengagement was declined housing in a secular settlement inside Israel because he was classified as a gaza settler and they didnt want his type around.

So there's discrimination. It doesnt mean its apartheid.

Gwaa, no one said Israel is perfect. Ofcourse there will be some level of discrimination against arabs. That may never change. It just so happens that Israeli settlers and a lot of orthodox israelis are discriminted against as well. I've heard first hand from Israelis that many of them dont like first Arabs, second orthodox jews. In fact one secular Israeli who was removed from Gaza as part of the disengagement was declined housing in a secular settlement inside Israel because he was classified as a gaza settler and they didnt want his type around.

So there's discrimination. It doesnt mean its apartheid.

In reply to your comment:
“In response to your ill-informed comments: "If you want to argue that Israel is an apartheid nation then prove it by showing how it discriminates and racially segregates its OWN citizens."

It always annoys me when people say that Israel is the only democracy in the Middle East. Firstly, this is just factually wrong, for example Kuwait is a democracy. Secondly, democracy does not simply mean the rule of the majority. A democracy is also measured by the way the majority treat the minorities - how they protect minority rights.

Israel is well known for treating its Arab population as second class citizens. In fact during the recent invasion of Lebanon, the majority of people killed by Hezbollah rockets in northern Israel were Arabs who were not given access to bomb shelters. Assad Ghanem, senior lecturer in political science at Israel's Haifa University has argued that "This is not a democracy, it is an ethnocracy...We are not full citizens, this country is only for the Jews." Arab Israelis now make up 20 percent of Israel's six million-plus population, but until very recently there was not a single Arab minister (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/6254691.stm). The appointment of the first Arab minister is an important step, and one which should be applauded - but the backlash from many areas of the Israeli public shows what a divisive issue this is in Israel.

Formally, Israeli law guarantees equality to Israeli Arabs, but in reality Israeli Arabs experience discrimination in many aspects of life. A report by an Israeli judge (Theodor Or) who wrote 'The Report by the State Commission of Inquiry into the Events of October 2000', stated that:

"The Arab citizens of Israel live in a reality in which they experience discrimination as Arabs. This inequality has been documented in a large number of professional surveys and studies, has been confirmed in court judgments and government resolutions, and has also found expression in reports by the state comptroller and in other official documents. Although the Jewish majority’s awareness of this discrimination is often quite low, it plays a central role in the sensibilities and attitudes of Arab citizens. This discrimination is widely accepted, both within the Arab sector and outside it, and by official assessments, as a chief cause of agitation." Furthermore, the Orr Commission of Inquiry's report stated that the "Government handling of the Arab sector has been primarily neglectful and discriminatory", that the Government "did not show sufficient sensitivity to the needs of the Arab population, and did not take enough action to allocate state resources in an equal manner." As a result, "serious distress prevailed in the Arab sector in various areas. Evidence of distress included poverty, unemployment, a shortage of land, serious problems in the education system, and substantially defective infrastructure.'"

The National Committee for the Heads of the Arab Local Authorities in Israel addressed the unequal treatment of Israeli Arabs in a document produced in December 2006. They argued that: "The Israeli legal system includes a number of core laws that produce and reinforce inequality between the Arabs and the Jews in Israel (de jure) ... The official bias is not restricted to symbols such as the Israeli flag, but also to deeper legal issues concerning all Palestinian Arabs ... [t]he official definition of Israel as a Jewish state created a fortified ideological barrier in the face of obtaining full equality for the Palestinian Arab citizens of Israel ... We, the Palestinians in Israel, are an integral part of this place ... Israel has tried over the past decades to disengage us from this place, not through physical transfer but through intellectual emotional transfer. Israel has tried to create a new identity on the basis of 'loyalty to the state' ... The State has not determined a position acceptable to us yet in terms of nurturing our Arab culture."”

I watched the link from oohahh, and while it is interesting, the only part I balk at is the fact that he says we should NOT respect another person's belief system. I think that is where the danger absolutely lies.

My family is Fundie...poor things. I grew up in a Fundie household, so the Bible was shoved down my throat at a very early age. My mother still sends me emails saying she is sad that my son and I will burn in Hell. My son's father is from a family of Orthodox Jews. His sister took me aside after my son was born and told me that they would not recognize our child as their nephew if he wasn't circumcised...because that is their belief. Nothing personal.

This is the kind of fanaticism that causes the most hurt and bitterness. Religious dogma does not work in practice. But it does not make my family evil...it does not make my ex's family evil. It makes them unyielding, thus unable to grow as Human Beings.

But all I can do is respond. I cannot change their beliefs, but I respect their right to have them. After all, they are the ones who are missing out on a beautiful relationship with an amazing child.

As a side note, I think it's hilarious that the Super Mario Brothers Super Show TV Theme is related to this sift.