If these folks can afford guns, then the good, hard-working people in Oakland can most certainly afford guns.

In fact, this small Mexican town really understood the meaning of the "consent of the governed." They disarmed the police!

One thing I think gets missed by most people is that people aren't saints. But nor are they devils. If empowered, they won't let a minority of criminals take over their community. Even when this drug cartel tried to take over this Mexican town, the residents eventually said "Enough" and took matters (and arms) into their own hands. (And of course, the police tried to stop them.)

In addition, few people grasp how the belief/faith in the need for a police force in order to "protect" us from our neighbors, implicitly engenders a tacit distrust among those with whom we share community -- all in the name of some faceless, unnamed "third party" called The State.

I don't know about you, but between the police and my friends, I will invariably trust my friends more than any cop. Every. Single. Time.

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This is Democrat failure of epic proportion.

From Wikipedia:
Politics

"Oakland was politically conservative from the 1860s to the 1950s, led by the Republican-oriented Oakland Tribune newspaper. In the 1950s and '60s, the majority stance shifted to favor liberal policies and the Democratic Party.[156][157] Oakland has by far the highest percentage of registered Democrats of any of the incorporated cities in Alameda County. As of 2009, Oakland has 204,646 registered voters, and 140,858 (68.8%) are registered Democrats, 12,248 (5.9%) are registered Republicans, and 41,109 (20.1%) decline to state a political affiliation.[158] Oakland is widely regarded as being one of the most liberal major cities in the nation.

The Cook Partisan Voting Index of Congressional District 13, which includes Oakland and Berkeley, is D+37; among the six most extremely Democratic congressional districts in the US."

Crime:
Oakland's crime rate began to escalate during the late 1960s, and by the end of the 1970s Oakland's per capita murder rate had risen to twice that of its neighbor city, San Francisco, or that of New York City.[125]

During the first decade of the 21st century Oakland has consistently been listed as one of the most dangerous large cities in the United States.[126] Until 2010 the homicide rate dropped four times in a row, and violent crime in general had dropped 27%.

Violent crime in general, and homicides in particular, increased during 2011.[127] In 2012 Oakland reported 131 homicides, the highest since 2006 (when there were 148 recorded).[128][129]"

#1 I clicked "ignore" after responding to his post. That is what I have no problem with doing.

#2 Bullshit. (sorry but it is) Hundreds if not thousands of people get arrested and prosecuted regularly for drug possession, drug selling, and even drug use. Tell me what's been decriminalized!

#3 The state is doing quite a bit in Oakland, actually, like preventing the private institutions that would solve these problems from arising in the fist place from setting up there (but instead hold failed monopolies over those industries). For example, there are no legalized drug dealers (See bullshit #2). Again, that kind of gang activity happens on a "public" street. It does not happen on private property. And even if it did, it'd be no one's business but the owners'.

#4 If this was even close to true, then it's even more proof of the superiority of private police over "public" law enforcement. Because, like I said, you don't see this kind of thing happening on private property, do you?

#5. Wrong. Businesses will take care of that if given an incentive to move there. Have you not heard of people complaining about (so-called) "gentrification?"

#6. Huh? Really? So, are there no business permits needed to set up a business in Oakland? Do the business owners and residents of Oakland not have to pay taxes? Is there no open carry for law-abiding citizens? (now there will be it seems). Is there no enforced rent control in Oakland? If you don't see any regulations being enforced, then you are willfully ignorant.

#7. There are no gangs at Disney because it is private property and its owners will not put up with something so bad for business as gangs. Disneyland and Google have gentrified the neighborhoods they are in -- they were not always low crime areas as they were before they moved in.

"Oakland is a high crime area with little money for security."

Yeah, those usually go together. The ultimate results of statist interventions are always poverty and crime.

#8 Much of the violent crime happens in the "public" spaces, like the streets. Sure, there are break-ins to private homes, etc. but as you say, the poverty does not let people hire private security, and the "public" police (that have monopolized that industry) are, like you point out, completely useless to the tax-paying residents who live there.


#9 I'd rather I wouldn't have to pay for taxes and pay for my own security than having to give the money to the state in exchange for getting nothing in return. In fact, I'm aware of several security services that are available to people living in the ghetto for as little as $35/month.


#10 So, only gangsters can afford guns now? Maybe it will be cheaper without the gun "permit" costs. Or the restrictions about buying them more cheaply online.

And I highly doubt the peoople in Oakland can't afford guns, given how many guns there are in Oakland. But, for the sake of argument, lets say it's true. If not for the illegality of the drug trade, then gangsters would also not be able to afford guns (the illegality of the drugs is what's driving up the price and, as a result, the profitability of gangsterism). And if it wasn't for the regulations, Walmart would make sure to provide more affordable armaments, just like they do in other states.

I recommend spending just a few minutes inside the Oakland traffic court and you'll see how many "hardworking upstanding people" there are who somehow manage to pay for hundreds of dollars in fines and/or do community service for an equivalent minimum wage to pay for these. You could easily get a gun at Walmart for much less.


"Before someone claims I have no idea of what I speak, my brother lived in East Oakland..."

Well, if you think Oakland is a libertarian "dream," then you clearly have no idea what you are talking about. Having a brother who lived in Oakland for a year does not make you an expert on (or even vaguely familiar with) what a libertarian "dream" place looks like (or even -- as you apparently reveal -- what actually goes on in Oakland).


Just the fact that, as you say, Oakland is rather poor makes it a non-libertarian city at all. A free market society/economy (cronyism is not a free market, so don't even go there) has much less poverty than a 'regulated' one.

Sure, if you go from a state-dependent "economy" to a free market overnight, without having had time to rebuild the private institutions that the state demolished and/or took over and/or monopolized, then, sure you may have a chaotic transition period. That's why a controlled dismantlement is far more preferable to an anarchy that comes about by sudden collapse. But, you have to take what you can get.

(As we may find out first hand) the problem with a government going bankrupt is that, at first, it may seem like a good thing, but it can also bring about a worse repression from the state. Praxeology cannot answer the unknown. It falls more within the realm of thymological prediction/analysis.

I would like to answer some points here....
1.You certainly SEEM to have a problem ignoring his posts, you even responded to them.
2. These 'crimes' have been 'decriminalized' because the police are unable to enforce the laws, decriminalizing nearly everything, at least in practice if not by law.
3. The state doing nothing is what libertarians are all about, so again, in practice this does seem to be the libertarian dream, just not by law.
4. Private security HAS taken over in Oakland. Private security only protects what they're paid to protect, and nothing else usually.
5. To make Oakland 'business friendly' you first need to make if FAR less violent.
6. I can't see ANY regulations being enforced there, what are you talking about with 'over-regulated Oakland'?
7. Oakland is in America, and nearly all of it is 'private property/enterprise' that IS putting up with that. There are no gang shootings (or fewer) at Google and Disney because they are in low crime areas and can afford good private security for themselves, Oakland is a high crime area with little money for security.
8. Wow, you are really stretching there. These things do NOT happen only in public places, most of Oakland is private property and high crime.
9. Where do you get the idea that struggling businesses have the funds to pay for private security? That's simply wrong and insultingly so, as it implies that they have the ability to stop, and a reason to allow the high crime in their area.

10. to the idea that everyone in Oakland should just be armed to reduce crime, is anyone offering the free guns to them? I guarantee you, most hard working upstanding people in Oakland can't afford a gun.

Before someone claims I have no idea of what I speak, my brother lived in East Oakland for a year and I visited often, and we lived in S. Berkley for years, almost on the Oakland border...I do know the Oakland of the 80's and 90's (true, I have no personal knowledge of 2000+ Oakland, but it seems the same).

@enoch, you must have your head in your own rectum if you think that Oakland is anywhere close to a libertarian's wet dream. You clearly have no interest in having a real discussion about any of the principles I've outlined for you, and I have little problem ignoring your posts.

If anything, Oakland is more like a statist's dream, right now. The inevitable result of regulations and criminalization of drugs. Drug dealers, pimps, bookies, and such are, in fact, "cronies" of the governmental system due to the fact that their jobs are overpaid by the illegality of these services.

If Oakland decriminalizes all of the above mentioned "services" that these guys provide, then I would grant that the city is, indeed, moving in a libertarian direction. Otherwise, only psychos and low-lifes tend to take those illegal jobs given that they are subject to the precariousness of the whims of the legislators

I don't mind them doing any of the above activities, actually. But shooting guns in the air could be a violation of someone else's property, depending on where the bullets fall or on whom/what. And obviously the state "protectors" are doing nothing about any of these things.

Like I said, let private security take over and these random shootings would be curtailed..

Make Oakland business-friendly, and you will see it become much less violent. A libertarian's "dream" does not look like an over-regulated Oakland.

Private enterprise/private property does not put up with random shooting into the air in the middle of a city. Tell me: Why are there are no gang shootings inside the Google campus? Or at Disneyland?

Why do these things tend to happen only in "public" spaces? Tell me.

That cop heckled by the gangs had zero incentive to risk his life for no gain. Businesses, on the other hand, have the incentive to keep gangs off of their property. And they will find those willing and able (for the right price) to deal with the gangsters in ways the government cronies simply can/will not..

oakland=a libertarians wet dream.
@Trancecoach these gangsters have jobs.
they sell drugs,sell sex and run gambling dens.they provide security for those who do not wish their private property violated.
they provide essential services.

why do you hate the free market?
are you a socialist?

Wow. Used to live just south of Oakland. It wasn't that bad then (almost 10 years ago). Whew.

Yep Wild Wild West: Oakland, CA. Except that, until now, only cops and criminals were armed. In a real Wild Wild West scenario, law abiding and decent people are also armed. And that makes a huge difference. Like in that town in Mexico where the population organized into a citizen's army and drove out the cartels/gangs, in addition to keeping the cops at bay. Just another instance where I think private police agencies (like the Old West 'Pinkertons' and bounty hunters) would do what needed to be done where public "cops" don't really want to (or simply can't).

After the end of the "war on [some] drugs" and the welfare state, gangsters will have to do something -- maybe get jobs -- other than 'side-show' and standing around all night, shooting (expensive) bullets into the air.

Damn Oakland, you scary!

I'm happy to have missed the 60s and experienced the 90s there-Same good LSD, and no hippie-infestation! OH, and the Dead's last show in Oakland...lived in SF & MISSED IT!! (pats own back)

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Cop-baitings' been a sport in Oakland, Detroit, etc. since douche grew legs-These folks in the car should know better than to poke feral rednecks with badges in "what the fuck are we gonna do we're so bored and ineffectual" Nebraska (is that you Mr. Fisk?).

All I see are four, stupid people. That stay-puft marshmallow douche should get his clesterol checked n'maybe take a few anger management blows to the skull.

@artician
This was in Oakland, California. Everything Oakland does is like this.


@Drachen_Jager
Zero accountability surely plays a role. A kid uses school to punch teachers, rather than to study? "It must have been oppression."

Asian-Americans can grow up poorer than Non-Asian minorities, but still average better than White-Americans in school scores, so it's about culture, not parental income.

Couldn't agree more.


Also, the title and tags are misleading. this is Occupy Oakland, not OWS. OWS was and is located in lower Manhattan. Oakland was always more radical and at one point even broke with Occupy and returned to being the Oakland Commune/Decolonize. Also, to the best of my knowledge, OWS never led an explicit 'F the Police' march, although in my time there, several did devolve into that.