What-if-extreme-case-yadda-yadda. The point of the video is to demonstrate that you have the right not to talk to cops, and that the cops can only detain you if they have probable cause (or consider you a material witness?? can't remember). That's all. He probably doesn't drive around doing this all the time.

Or maybe be does do it all the time to protect himself against the police, which I totally understand as I've been abused by them many times, and knowing my rights in the face of abusive officers has saved me a lot of grief in the past, and more knowledge could have saved me even more.

Either way, I get it. Stop equating people exercising their rights with drunk drivers. And either way, DUI programs aren't really designed to catch drunk drivers. The primary function is to scare people into not driving drunk in the first place. So not cooperating with one has no effect on numbers of drunk drivers.

>> ^marinara:

allow me to point out the obvious. The murderers who committed the columubine massacre weren't obeying gun laws.

so gun laws are a stupid idea? it seems all these clever sociologists etc. are just blind. of course, because there's a singular event where in absence of gun laws some twisted fucks killed kids in their school that's a perfect reason why gun laws would have no effect.


allow me to also point out something obvious: 3.45 of 100,000 citizens killed by guns in the US vs. 0.19 of 100,000 in Germany. That's 18fold. one of them has strict gun laws, the other doesn't.

so just ban guns and everything would be alright? funny enough this little teutonic country's population possesses 12% of the world's guns. but still thanks to the extremely strict laws we don't have rates like the US in regards of people getting shot.

gun laws save lives. it doesn't get more "fact" than this.

Yah, this looks wildly dangerous to me. If something comes out in front of the bus the driver might as well resign himself to hitting it as clearly hitting his brakes will have no effect.

There's a reason Ron Paul is hated by both parties a simple one too. He doesn't play by their rules. This is exactly the kind of person we need in office someone who refuses to let partisan politics influence major decisions that effect the Nation as a whole. By keeping the people at the forefront of his mind and not his "Party".

I'm sick of all this Left/Right bullsh*t it's time to do what's right for this Nation regardless of petty political agendas.

[edit] And I know exactly how the system works thank you very much. It work through the bowels of corruption and greed.

I think it's high time we flushed the system as it is and started anew.

>> ^Fletch:

@Auger8
If you think for a second that a President as despised by his own party as the opposing party is just going to walk into the White House on Inauguration Day and "make decisions", you have no idea how the system works. He will have NO EFFECT on the status quo, and the country will go through yet another four years of political gridlock while both parties look ahead to 2016.
I absolutely share your frustrations with Obama, and he isn't getting my vote this time. I'll write in Kucinich or Warren, or somebody. What I won't do is jump onto the short bus with the rest of the Ron Paul nutcakes. Yeah, voting write-in will have the same effect as voting for Ron Paul... it throws a potential Obama vote away. I've recently said I would grudgingly vote for Obama, but I've changed my mind. "Best of a bad lot" just isn't good enough.

@Auger8

If you think for a second that a President as despised by his own party as the opposing party is just going to walk into the White House on Inauguration Day and "make decisions", you have no idea how the system works. He will have NO EFFECT on the status quo, and the country will go through yet another four years of political gridlock while both parties look ahead to 2016.

I absolutely share your frustrations with Obama, and he isn't getting my vote this time. I'll write in Kucinich or Warren, or somebody. What I won't do is jump onto the short bus with the rest of the Ron Paul nutcakes. Yeah, voting write-in will have the same effect as voting for Ron Paul... it throws a potential Obama vote away. I've recently said I would grudgingly vote for Obama, but I've changed my mind. "Best of a bad lot" just isn't good enough.

I'm glad I'm not alone. Whatever this is... it wasn't caused by a pulled tooth. My suspicion is he's practicing for a part, and wants doctors to coach him. My friend mentioned it could be psychogenic as well. It would be extremely strange however, and she agreed, most likely fake.

>> ^snoozedoctor:

Nope. Little, to no, chance of that either. Hypoxia from over sedation would more likely affect the frontal lobes. If he had hypoxia severe enough to produce brain stem injury, he would have associated severe cognitive dysfunction as well. If this guy's symptoms are real, he would appear to have a cerebellar/brainstem lesion, such as a tumor or stroke. Only problem with that is, Ambien would have no effect on it. A serious "reaction" to sedatives would be of the allergic type and would not result in such a focal deficit. Can't prove it, but I think this guy is either faking his symptoms (most likely), or has some type of psychogenic dysarthria.
>> ^ReverendTed:
>> ^snoozedoctor:
I say probably fake. TMJ dysfunction does not result in the dysarthria this guys appears to exhibit. Because it's symmetrical, it would almost have to be a central brain lesion of some sort. Nerve injury from dental extraction would be unilateral and involve sensory, not motor nerves. Whatever this guy exhibits, it has nothing to do with a dental extraction.
Unless they're using TMD to mean something other than Temporo-Mandibular Disorder, I agree that it is extremely unlikely that it's post-extraction trauma. Possible neurological defect as a result of over-sedation or reaction to the sedative?

Nope. Little, to no, chance of that either. Hypoxia from over sedation would more likely affect the frontal lobes. If he had hypoxia severe enough to produce brain stem injury, he would have associated severe cognitive dysfunction as well. If this guy's symptoms are real, he would appear to have a cerebellar/brainstem lesion, such as a tumor or stroke. Only problem with that is, Ambien would have no effect on it. A serious "reaction" to sedatives would be of the allergic type and would not result in such a focal deficit. Can't prove it, but I think this guy is either faking his symptoms (most likely), or has some type of psychogenic dysarthria.
>> ^ReverendTed:

>> ^snoozedoctor:
I say probably fake. TMJ dysfunction does not result in the dysarthria this guys appears to exhibit. Because it's symmetrical, it would almost have to be a central brain lesion of some sort. Nerve injury from dental extraction would be unilateral and involve sensory, not motor nerves. Whatever this guy exhibits, it has nothing to do with a dental extraction.
Unless they're using TMD to mean something other than Temporo-Mandibular Disorder, I agree that it is extremely unlikely that it's post-extraction trauma. Possible neurological defect as a result of over-sedation or reaction to the sedative?

>> ^marinara:

they don't have to censor millions of pages. they just have to censor google search results


I'm sure that if the MPAA / RIAA types had free rein (even more than now, I mean) they would do exactly that. But what would actually result if that were actually to happen? OK, Google might wither and die, or at least the search portion of Google.

And then? In no time at all, the next Google would appear. PirateBay, isoHunt, RapidShare, whatever. Stop one, everybody moves to the next. Eliminating any or all of those would have exactly the same long-term reduction in piracy as Napster's demise did -- which is to say, no effect at all. Bit-by-bit policing/censoring the internet is just literally impossible.

I think that content creators need to wrap around the fact that the internet has fundamentally changed how people think about concepts like intellectual property, copyright, etc. Cat's out of the bag, the milk has been spilled, Pandora's box is open. Whoever comes up with the best business method that simply accepts that as unavoidable fact, good bad or indifferent, can make real steps towards finding the way forward.

The point about global warming is that all the available evidence shows that:
1. It is happening
2. It is man-made.

Why is that a problem? well, because we dont know what the consequences could be, we dont know how to stop the rising temperature or if theres a limit or if or when we can reverse the trend.

All of the above could happen, or it might not, some of it may not be due to GW and some of it may be. The fact is that we are messing with earths ecosystem, which is the very reason we are here in the first place. We grew up and evolved as a species on this planet, under these conditions, how will a rapid(geologically rapid 100-200 years) change in climate affect us as a species? how will it affect millions of other species? How will it affect weather? viruses? diseases? deserts? forests?

We don't know

Thats the point. some of the above are possible consequences of global warming*.

*or some denialist pulled it out of their ass and put it on the web so that other denialists could impress us all with their extensive lists.

>> ^quantumushroom:

Enviro-statist alarmists claim that all of the following have been (or will be) caused by global warming.

Agricultural land increase, Africa devastated, African aid threatened, air pressure changes, Alaska reshaped, allergies increase, Alps melting, Amazon a desert, American dream end, amphibians breeding earlier (or not), ancient forests dramatically changed, Antarctic grass flourishes, anxiety, algal blooms, Arctic bogs melt, Asthma, atmospheric defiance, atmospheric circulation modified, avalanches reduced, avalanches increased, bananas destroyed, bananas grow, better beer, big melt faster, billion dollar research projects, billions of deaths, bird distributions change, birds return early, blackbirds stop singing, blizzards, blue mussels return, boredom, Britain Siberian, British gardens change, bubonic plague, budget increases, building season extension, bushfires, business opportunities, business risks, butterflies move north.
Cardiac arrest, caterpillar biomass shift, challenges and opportunities, Cholera, civil unrest, cloud increase, cloud stripping, cod go south, cold climate creatures survive, cold spells (Australia), computer models, conferences, coral bleaching, coral reefs dying, coral reefs grow, coral reefs shrink , cold spells, cost of trillions, crumbling roads, buildings and sewage systems, cyclones (Australia), damages equivalent to $200 billion, Dengue hemorrhagic fever, dermatitis, desert advance, desert life threatened, desert retreat, destruction of the environment, diarrhoea, disappearance of coastal cities, diseases move north, Dolomites collapse, drought, drowning people, ducks and geese decline, dust bowl in the corn belt.
Early spring, earlier pollen season, Earth biodiversity crisis, Earth dying, Earth even hotter, Earth light dimming, Earth lopsided, Earth melting, Earth morbid fever, Earth on fast track, Earth past point of no return, Earth slowing down, Earth spinning out of control, Earth to explode, earth upside down, Earth wobbling, earthquakes, El NiZo intensification, erosion, emerging infections, encephalitis, Europe simultaneously baking and freezing, evolution accelerating, expansion of university climate groups, extinctions (human, civilisation, logic, Inuit, smallest butterfly, cod, ladybirds, bats, pandas, pikas, polar bears, pigmy possums, gorillas, koalas, walrus, whales, frogs, toads, turtles, orang-utan, elephants, tigers, plants, salmon, trout, wild flowers, woodlice, penguins, a million species, half of all animal and plant species, less, not polar bears), experts muzzled, extreme changes to California.
Famine, farmers go under, figurehead sacked, fish catches drop, fish catches rise, fish stocks decline, five million illnesses, floods, Florida economic decline, food poisoning, food prices rise, food security threat (SA), footpath erosion, forest decline, forest expansion, frosts, fungi invasion, Garden of Eden wilts, genetic diversity decline, gene pools slashed, glacial retreat, glacial growth, glacier wrapped, global cooling, global dimming, glowing clouds, Gore omnipresence, grandstanding, grasslands wetter, Great Barrier Reef 95% dead, Great Lakes drop, greening of the North, Gulf Stream failure, habitat loss, Hantavirus pulmonary syndrome, harvest increase, harvest shrinkage, hay fever epidemic, hazardous waste sites breached, heat waves, hibernation ends too soon, hibernation ends too late, high court debates, human fertility reduced, human health improvement, human health risk, hurricanes, hydropower problems, hyperthermia deaths.
Ice sheet growth, ice sheet shrinkage, inclement weather, infrastructure failure (Canada), Inuit displacement, Inuit poisoned, Inuit suing, industry threatened, infectious diseases, insurance premium rises, invasion of midges, island disappears, islands sinking, itchier poison ivy, jellyfish explosion, Kew Gardens taxed, krill decline, lake and stream productivity decline, landslides, landslides of ice at 140 mph, lawsuits increase, lawsuit successful, lawyers’ income increased (surprise, surprise!), lightning related insurance claims, little response in the atmosphere, Lyme disease.
Malaria, malnutrition, Maple syrup shortage, marine diseases, marine food chain decimated, marine dead zone, Meaching (end of the world), megacryometeors, Melanoma, methane emissions from plants, methane burps, melting permafrost, Middle Kingdom convulses, migration, migration difficult (birds), microbes to decompose soil carbon more rapidly, more bad air days, more research needed, mountain (Everest) shrinking, mountains break up, mountains taller, mudslides, next ice age, Nile delta damaged, no effect in India, nuclear plants bloom, oaks move north, ocean acidification, outdoor hockey threatened, oyster diseases, ozone loss, ozone repair slowed, ozone rise.
Pacific dead zone, personal carbon rationing, pest outbreaks, pests increase, phenology shifts, plankton blooms, plankton destabilised, plankton loss, plant viruses, plants march north, polar bears aggressive, polar bears cannibalistic, polar bears drowning, polar bears starve, polar tours scrapped, psychosocial disturbances, railroad tracks deformed, rainfall increase, rainfall reduction, refugees, reindeer larger, release of ancient frozen viruses, resorts disappear, rice yields crash, rift on Capitol Hill, rioting and nuclear war, rivers raised, rivers dry up, rockfalls, rocky peaks crack apart, roof of the world a desert, Ross river disease.
Salinity reduction, salinity increase, Salmonella, salmon stronger, sea level rise, sea level rise faster, sex change, sharks booming, shrinking ponds, ski resorts threatened, slow death, smog, snowfall increase, snowfall reduction, societal collapse, songbirds change eating habits, sour grapes, spiders invade Scotland, squid population explosion, squirrels reproduce earlier, spectacular orchids, stormwater drains stressed.
Taxes, tectonic plate movement, terrorism, ticks move northward (Sweden), tides rise, tourism increase, trade winds weakened, tree beetle attacks, tree foliage increase (UK), tree growth slowed, trees could return to Antarctic, trees less colourful, trees more colourful, tropics expansion, tropopause raised, tsunamis, turtles lay earlier, UK Katrina, Venice flooded, volcanic eruptions.
Walrus pups orphaned, war, wars over water, water bills double, water supply unreliability, water scarcity (20% of increase), water stress, weather out of its mind, weather patterns awry, weeds, Western aid cancelled out, West Nile fever, whales move north, wheat yields crushed in Australia, white Christmas dream ends, wildfires, wind shift, wind reduced, wine - harm to Australian industry, wine industry damage (California), wine industry disaster (US), wine - more English, wine -German boon, wine - no more French , winters in Britain colder, wolves eat more moose, wolves eat less, workers laid off, World bankruptcy, World in crisis, Yellow fever.

Enviro-statist alarmists claim that all of the following have been (or will be) caused by global warming.


Agricultural land increase, Africa devastated, African aid threatened, air pressure changes, Alaska reshaped, allergies increase, Alps melting, Amazon a desert, American dream end, amphibians breeding earlier (or not), ancient forests dramatically changed, Antarctic grass flourishes, anxiety, algal blooms, Arctic bogs melt, Asthma, atmospheric defiance, atmospheric circulation modified, avalanches reduced, avalanches increased, bananas destroyed, bananas grow, better beer, big melt faster, billion dollar research projects, billions of deaths, bird distributions change, birds return early, blackbirds stop singing, blizzards, blue mussels return, boredom, Britain Siberian, British gardens change, bubonic plague, budget increases, building season extension, bushfires, business opportunities, business risks, butterflies move north.

Cardiac arrest, caterpillar biomass shift, challenges and opportunities, Cholera, civil unrest, cloud increase, cloud stripping, cod go south, cold climate creatures survive, cold spells (Australia), computer models, conferences, coral bleaching, coral reefs dying, coral reefs grow, coral reefs shrink , cold spells, cost of trillions, crumbling roads, buildings and sewage systems, cyclones (Australia), damages equivalent to $200 billion, Dengue hemorrhagic fever, dermatitis, desert advance, desert life threatened, desert retreat, destruction of the environment, diarrhoea, disappearance of coastal cities, diseases move north, Dolomites collapse, drought, drowning people, ducks and geese decline, dust bowl in the corn belt.

Early spring, earlier pollen season, Earth biodiversity crisis, Earth dying, Earth even hotter, Earth light dimming, Earth lopsided, Earth melting, Earth morbid fever, Earth on fast track, Earth past point of no return, Earth slowing down, Earth spinning out of control, Earth to explode, earth upside down, Earth wobbling, earthquakes, El NiZo intensification, erosion, emerging infections, encephalitis, Europe simultaneously baking and freezing, evolution accelerating, expansion of university climate groups, extinctions (human, civilisation, logic, Inuit, smallest butterfly, cod, ladybirds, bats, pandas, pikas, polar bears, pigmy possums, gorillas, koalas, walrus, whales, frogs, toads, turtles, orang-utan, elephants, tigers, plants, salmon, trout, wild flowers, woodlice, penguins, a million species, half of all animal and plant species, less, not polar bears), experts muzzled, extreme changes to California.

Famine, farmers go under, figurehead sacked, fish catches drop, fish catches rise, fish stocks decline, five million illnesses, floods, Florida economic decline, food poisoning, food prices rise, food security threat (SA), footpath erosion, forest decline, forest expansion, frosts, fungi invasion, Garden of Eden wilts, genetic diversity decline, gene pools slashed, glacial retreat, glacial growth, glacier wrapped, global cooling, global dimming, glowing clouds, Gore omnipresence, grandstanding, grasslands wetter, Great Barrier Reef 95% dead, Great Lakes drop, greening of the North, Gulf Stream failure, habitat loss, Hantavirus pulmonary syndrome, harvest increase, harvest shrinkage, hay fever epidemic, hazardous waste sites breached, heat waves, hibernation ends too soon, hibernation ends too late, high court debates, human fertility reduced, human health improvement, human health risk, hurricanes, hydropower problems, hyperthermia deaths.

Ice sheet growth, ice sheet shrinkage, inclement weather, infrastructure failure (Canada), Inuit displacement, Inuit poisoned, Inuit suing, industry threatened, infectious diseases, insurance premium rises, invasion of midges, island disappears, islands sinking, itchier poison ivy, jellyfish explosion, Kew Gardens taxed, krill decline, lake and stream productivity decline, landslides, landslides of ice at 140 mph, lawsuits increase, lawsuit successful, lawyers’ income increased (surprise, surprise!), lightning related insurance claims, little response in the atmosphere, Lyme disease.

Malaria, malnutrition, Maple syrup shortage, marine diseases, marine food chain decimated, marine dead zone, Meaching (end of the world), megacryometeors, Melanoma, methane emissions from plants, methane burps, melting permafrost, Middle Kingdom convulses, migration, migration difficult (birds), microbes to decompose soil carbon more rapidly, more bad air days, more research needed, mountain (Everest) shrinking, mountains break up, mountains taller, mudslides, next ice age, Nile delta damaged, no effect in India, nuclear plants bloom, oaks move north, ocean acidification, outdoor hockey threatened, oyster diseases, ozone loss, ozone repair slowed, ozone rise.

Pacific dead zone, personal carbon rationing, pest outbreaks, pests increase, phenology shifts, plankton blooms, plankton destabilised, plankton loss, plant viruses, plants march north, polar bears aggressive, polar bears cannibalistic, polar bears drowning, polar bears starve, polar tours scrapped, psychosocial disturbances, railroad tracks deformed, rainfall increase, rainfall reduction, refugees, reindeer larger, release of ancient frozen viruses, resorts disappear, rice yields crash, rift on Capitol Hill, rioting and nuclear war, rivers raised, rivers dry up, rockfalls, rocky peaks crack apart, roof of the world a desert, Ross river disease.

Salinity reduction, salinity increase, Salmonella, salmon stronger, sea level rise, sea level rise faster, sex change, sharks booming, shrinking ponds, ski resorts threatened, slow death, smog, snowfall increase, snowfall reduction, societal collapse, songbirds change eating habits, sour grapes, spiders invade Scotland, squid population explosion, squirrels reproduce earlier, spectacular orchids, stormwater drains stressed.

Taxes, tectonic plate movement, terrorism, ticks move northward (Sweden), tides rise, tourism increase, trade winds weakened, tree beetle attacks, tree foliage increase (UK), tree growth slowed, trees could return to Antarctic, trees less colourful, trees more colourful, tropics expansion, tropopause raised, tsunamis, turtles lay earlier, UK Katrina, Venice flooded, volcanic eruptions.

Walrus pups orphaned, war, wars over water, water bills double, water supply unreliability, water scarcity (20% of increase), water stress, weather out of its mind, weather patterns awry, weeds, Western aid cancelled out, West Nile fever, whales move north, wheat yields crushed in Australia, white Christmas dream ends, wildfires, wind shift, wind reduced, wine - harm to Australian industry, wine industry damage (California), wine industry disaster (US), wine - more English, wine -German boon, wine - no more French , winters in Britain colder, wolves eat more moose, wolves eat less, workers laid off, World bankruptcy, World in crisis, Yellow fever.

Bush 43 ran up the debt by 5 trillion in 8 years. He was criticized for it. Obama has run up 3 trillion in 3 years, with nothing to show for it. Bush 43 started ths scamulus nonsense and Obama expanded it.

As for Slick Willie, read about The Myth of the Clinton Surplus here.



>> ^longde:

>> ^quantumushroom:
BR>
Out-of-control spending is wrecking this country, and calling Tea Partiers "crazy" and espousing 'tax increases' will not stop this in any way, because the left always spends more than it takes in, more so than the right.
Obama & Friends are already spending printed trillions, to no effect.

The facts belie this point. Republicans love to spend. In fact, half the debt we have created since Reagan was done in eight years; care to guess which eight years? If you guessed Bush---ding, ding, ding! How he did it: Iraq War, Stupid unfunded Medicare extension, Insanely Stupid tax cuts---these 3 items make up nearly half the increase in the debt since Reagan. These were all republican initiatives.
Bush, Reagan, and Bush Sr. ran up gobs of debt, with the full support of the repubs. Clinton actually reduced the debt. Republicans fought him tooth and nail, but he handed bush jr a surplus. Obama spent money to head off a depression.

The stock market is highly irrational. Why do you think the gov't has to prop the market with stimulus, etc.?

Are you seriously suggesting that when the market in 2008 lost half of its value in the span of a few months, only to gain most of it back over the next year, that's a rational market? Either the market was highly overvalued or undervalued at some point in time.

The Tea Partiers are crazy if they think that it's worth risking default instead of raising taxes. You're making it sound like Obama proposed tax increases, and the Tea Party proposed spending cuts. That's not true. Obama proposed both, and the Tea Party absolutely refused to even consider a meager tax raise on millionaires. That's ridiculous. The bottom line is it's impossible to argue that cutting spending and raising taxes would result in less deficit reduction than spending cuts alone would. A $4 trillion dollar deficit reduction plan was proposed by Obama, and the GOP shunted it in favor of a $2 trillion dollar one simply because the $2 trillion one didn't have any tax increases for the richest Americans.

Don't give me any of that BS about the Tea Party and the GOP wanting to lower the deficit, and that's what this whole thing is about. That's a bold faced lie.

>> ^quantumushroom:

Thanks to longde and heropsycho for reasonable answers.
As witnessed by today's predicted 8-8-11 stock plunge, the market doesn't wait for 'understanding' of the situation.
The "4 trillion" figure is suggested from a "presidential debt commission"...it's what I'd heard was the limit where the S&P would consider postponing a downgrade, also it was one of the attempted goal-plans of the Righties.
Out-of-control spending is wrecking this country, and calling Tea Partiers "crazy" and espousing 'tax increases' will not stop this in any way, because the left always spends more than it takes in, more so than the right.
Obama & Friends are already spending printed trillions, to no effect.
I've never considered Obama to be competent or even cognizant how the economy works, so it's difficult for me to believe it's "The Right's" fault for "making him look bad". The guy did it all on his own.

longde, as much as I'd love to stick it to QM over this, you're oversimplifying it.

Reagan ran up the deficit with a Democratic controlled Congress. Clinton balanced the budget with a Republican controlled Congress. Bush Sr. is getting a bit of a bad rap in your analysis. He was in wartime, so you're gonna run up the debt during war, and we absolutely should have gone into Iraq the first time.

Bush Jr. on the other hand did run up the debt with a Republican controlled Congress. Granted, with 9/11, etc. it was going to be difficult to not run a deficit, but Bush Sr. + the GOP Congress unnecessarily exacerbated the problem with the Bush Tax Cuts and Senior Prescription Benefit. And by 2004 or 2005, we should have been running a surplus.

What I find absolutely appalling about QM's argument is there's no context in why the debt was run up by Obama. It's really simple - the economy was in free fall. That's exactly what the gov't must do in that situation. Everybody knew it. Bush Jr. knew it, too, which is why the stimulus and bailouts started under him, and continued by Obama. It's painfully obvious to anyone who is willing to have an honest conversation about this topic.

>> ^longde:
>> ^quantumushroom:
BR>
Out-of-control spending is wrecking this country, and calling Tea Partiers "crazy" and espousing 'tax increases' will not stop this in any way, because the left always spends more than it takes in, more so than the right.
Obama & Friends are already spending printed trillions, to no effect.

The facts belie this point. Republicans love to spend. In fact, half the debt we have created since Reagan was done in eight years; care to guess which eight years? If you guessed Bush---ding, ding, ding! How he did it: Iraq War, Stupid unfunded Medicare extension, Insanely Stupid tax cuts---these 3 items make up nearly half the increase in the debt since Reagan. These were all republican initiatives.
Bush, Reagan, and Bush Sr. ran up gobs of debt, with the full support of the repubs. Clinton actually reduced the debt. Republicans fought him tooth and nail, but he handed bush jr a surplus. Obama spent money to head off a depression.

>> ^quantumushroom:

BR>
Out-of-control spending is wrecking this country, and calling Tea Partiers "crazy" and espousing 'tax increases' will not stop this in any way, because the left always spends more than it takes in, more so than the right.
Obama & Friends are already spending printed trillions, to no effect.


The facts belie this point. Republicans love to spend. In fact, half the debt we have created since Reagan was done in eight years; care to guess which eight years? If you guessed Bush---ding, ding, ding! How he did it: Iraq War, Stupid unfunded Medicare extension, Insanely Stupid tax cuts---these 3 items make up nearly half the increase in the debt since Reagan. These were all republican initiatives.

Bush, Reagan, and Bush Sr. ran up gobs of debt, with the full support of the repubs. Clinton actually reduced the debt. Republicans fought him tooth and nail, but he handed bush jr a surplus. Obama spent money to head off a depression.

Thanks to longde and heropsycho for reasonable answers.

As witnessed by today's predicted 8-8-11 stock plunge, the market doesn't wait for 'understanding' of the situation.

The "4 trillion" figure is suggested from a "presidential debt commission"...it's what I'd heard was the limit where the S&P would consider postponing a downgrade, also it was one of the attempted goal-plans of the Righties.

Out-of-control spending is wrecking this country, and calling Tea Partiers "crazy" and espousing 'tax increases' will not stop this in any way, because the left always spends more than it takes in, more so than the right.

Obama & Friends are already spending printed trillions, to no effect.

I've never considered Obama to be competent or even cognizant how the economy works, so it's difficult for me to believe it's "The Right's" fault for "making him look bad". The guy did it all on his own.