omnia mutantur, nihil interit

Tags for this video have been changed from 'The Adventures of Mark Twain, Will Vinton, claymation, planet beelzebub' to 'The Adventures of Mark Twain, Will Vinton, claymation, planet beelzebub, nihilism' - edited by burdturgler

I call your existentialism and raise you nihilism and technophilia.

>>AnimalsfromCrackers wrote:
Never mind all the ad hoc bullshit, ritual prostration/dehumanizing displays of self-hate before a grumpily bipolar deity, and clearly man-made, self-defeating fatalism that comes with specific religions like Islam or Christianity.

I'm sorry, I think you're confusing Christianity with the nihilism that comes from being a materialistic atheist.

This video didn't seem like a refutation to me.

The video is just trying to be clever by implying that people would still be missionaries to Africa even if they weren't Christian (appealing to the idea that people are inherently good or evil and religion doesn't change it - which is trivially false, BTW). The problem with this claim is that it is precisely the people who are devout believers in Christianity that find the ability to go live in the slums of Calcutta for their entire life, helping others. Not atheists. In general, Christians are much, much, much more likely to serve as a missionary or charitable equivalent than an atheist, and also give much more strongly out of their time and money to charities.

Ugh. Am I the only one who's utterly had it with South Park's slacker nihilism? Trey Parker and Matt Stone are about as unbearable as the kind of smug, unfit dullard that keeps telling you to vote for Ron Paul.

To examplify my point, heres a movie idea:

Show witch burnings, cut to bible verse used as basis for the crime, tell people about the crusades, cut to bible verse, show the thousands dead of HIV/AIDS in africa, cut to pope damning condom use, show the Westmoro baptist church and their "God Hates Fags" signs, cut to appropriate bible verse, show abortion clinic bombings, cut to bible verse, etc etc.... end the film with "stop Christianity and all its insanity."

Have I just outlined the plot for a movie claiming it is acceptable to kill all Christians?, does it encourage violence against Christians?, does it throw every single Christian in the Westmoro Baptist Church camp?

Of course not. it is a criticism of Christianity and its completely appropriate, in all the above examples, Christian doctrine was either the main cause of, or main justification for the various crimes and insanity expressed. Fitna does nothing more then my hypothetical movie.

And dont think Christians and Muslims are the only ones that has to endure films like this, look at "Expelled", it (wrongly, this time) links us Darwinists to Neo-darwinism, Communism, Nazism, Nihilism and who knows what. Perhaps it may even convince a fundie or two to go on a Darwinist killing rampage, who knows?

Fitna is no different. It links Islam to various acts of violence committed in the name of islam, it shows the verses that are used to justify these crimes, it shows powerful clerics with insanely fascist ideas, and links it to islam in general, etc. It is, like the movies described above, one-sided and rhetorical in its combination of text and images, but thats it. In no way does it group all muslims into one, in no way does it encourage violence or murder of muslims or anyone else.

>> ^ctrlaltbleach:
Its depressing to me however to believe that some people were born to live a miserable life just to die and show nothing for it. Some people don't even make it past childhood thats not fair and its very disheartening. And what about people who are enslaved and tortured their whole lives by cruel masters?

Isn't it more depressing to believe in a God who would sit around and let that shit happen?

I think my main reason for believing there is a god is that my mind cannot cope with the thought of their being nothing when I die.

What was it like before you were born? It wasn't that bad was it? I wouldn't mind going back to that state when I die. Also, living in heaven for eternity would suck. You'd get bored after a few million years and the rest of eternity would be fucking hell.

Also, anyone read what Nietzsche had to say about the death of God, Nihilism, and the Ubermensch?

Tags for this video have been changed from 'husserl, heidegger' to 'husserl, heidegger, existentialism, nihilism, philosopher, interview' - edited by mauz15

Nihilism is for a reason.

^ I thought faith in the sum action of greedy individuals in a crowd was what your philosophy was based on.

Since I seem to be accumulating a healthy number of downvotes on my original comment, clearly people disagree with my premise that this shows that greed is not an absolute good. For most people, that's not a revelation, nor offensive, but I've spotted at least 3 at this time who reacted negatively to the assertion.

No one's risen to my challenge to explain either why this was good, or why greed wasn't the cause.

Let me try to make it less confrontational. I'm not saying capitalism is evil -- I'm saying parts of it lead to evil behavior, and I'd love to work together to try to figure out what's wrong and correct it.

I don't think Republican-style conservatives are the cause, but I think their rhetoric pushes things in the wrong direction.

I'd say this incident is mostly a dangerous mix of nihilism, competition, and people's natural tendency in a group to think someone else will handle things like a salesperson lying on the floor.

Still, consumerism built the pressure-cooker that helped make this possible, and I'd love to come up with a solution, because I don't want the free market to go away, I just wish it were less intense at the consumer level somehow, without losing the freedom that makes it so useful in the first place.

Nietzsche here points out one of the things I really dislike about most modern atheists--Richard Dawkins, etc. Most of them reject Christianity, but nonetheless adopt values derived from Christianity--and don't bother really trying to question it or put it on some kind of philosophical grounding. Were they really to look closely at it, many of their moral tenets would evaporate like mist in the sunlight.

While I dislike Sam Harris in general, his remarks on morality are essential for an intellectually honest atheism. He proposes that we ground morality on scientific rationality and analysis of neuroscience and psychology. Which at the very least gives an atheist standing to make moral claims.

However, I do not believe that this will, as Harris hopes, be sufficient for a society wide morality or the end of moral dispute. There are too many lines of attack one can take. Nietzsche himself, for example, would raise the point that the scientific attitude Harris espouses is simply a manifestation of the will to nothing--the inversion of the will to power caused by socialization into a society that limits freedom of action, and overall an unhealthy way to be. It is out of the will to nothing that Judaism arose, he claims, and then later Christianity. In fact, he even says that the scientific attitude arose as the victory of the will to nothing over lingering elements of the will to power in Christianity.

To overcome nihilism, we must overcome the will to nothing. And so much for Sam Harris, if we're to follow Nietzsche's schema.

Beyond that, a couple of interesting notes.

The fact that the Madman carries a lantern is a reference to Diogenes of Sinope, one of the founders of the Cynic school of Greek philosophy. (Really more of a way of life than a school, though.) He was famous for living in a tub and carrying a lantern wherever he went. He was perceived as crazy, but all he was really trying to do was show the Athenians how ridiculous and irrational their customs and values were. The connection with questioning the values of modern man is obvious.

It isn't necessarily clear that Nietzsche thought the Ubermensch was an actual man who would live, or an ideal to strive for. It's essential to keep this ambiguity in mind when talking about the Ubermensch.

>> ^bluecliff:
what a foul den of scientific skatosanct idiotry!
The bloody greeks new somethin'
scio me nihil scire
I hope to god Sarah Palin wins
at least with her I know ehere i'm standing
Research is the asshole of philosophy (science) anyway


Choggie?

what a foul den of scientific skatosanct idiotry!

The bloody greeks new somethin'
scio me nihil scire
I hope to god Sarah Palin wins
at least with her I know ehere i'm standing

Research is the asshole of philosophy (science) anyway

You mean mainstream corporate Nihilism can't be trusted? Childhood is so disillusioning...

LittleRed and thepinky, an observation from a man, who sees expression of self and constancy, righteousness, and dignity as available to whomever will avail themselves of it-
The truth is, humans prey on other humans in the society we live in, it gets worse, as the breakdown of society becomes more glaringly apparent, relative to the leadership, and the complacency and dumbing-down of the subjects. People have always had free will, few exercise it or are capable. We are reaching another transition/Armageddon(figuratively speaking) stage in world societies, and these are some of the signs: Violence, self-servitude, Nihilism, self-abuse, and unconcern for one's fellow man, to the point of self-extinction(the folks who want the world to themselves, want it however they can get it)

I understand the phenom, that from one's process and exposure extant in any individual's life, through their unique filter, the world becomes what they want, or think it should be-There are talented women and men, who can make a living given the venue and the room to move-Some of these performers need a niche they can be secure in, without the abuse-Burlesque is in revival hon, and always is during and prior to, really hard times (i.E. wars, or collapse of infrastructure and economy..this being the fault, not necessarily of the people, but of the few who have orchestrated such a fall for their own selfish ends)

All for morality, decency, etc. if its the natural course of the human condition, which it is, and is un-manipulated or capitalized upon by the strong over the weak scenario....(taking advantage of it, for selfish gain) Just as I am for anything presented, that raises awareness and consciousness, in an individual.

Hope Dita Von Teese, the discussion that followed thepinky tirade here, and this message has done as much-Peace girl-frintz!!